Any pub showing the debate tonight

K-9 · 03-10-2008 2:33am

Overheal wrote: »

he was thinking of his sons i think. got him emotional. will probably play in his favor actually

Indeed, countered the soccer moms argument!

rollie · 03-10-2008 2:33am

fantastic ending biden.....well scripted. good job scriptwriters

Overheal · 03-10-2008 2:34am

Biden really took control in that debate but that was not the same Palin we saw in the Couric interviews.

BlitzKrieg · 03-10-2008 2:36am

I think Bidan overall won, He started off steady and got numerous points that Palin did not address, Palin had an advantage in that she wasnt the mess a lot of people were expecting and she pushed the whole connection to the american people element very strongly which can prove very effective in these public debates.

But Bidan really put her in her place in the later part, he took the whole maverick smirk off her face and out trumped her cosy *people* anecdotes with his own.

I think he won it overall.

sink · 03-10-2008 2:36am

Biden was definitely the better speaker as he came across clear and concise whereas Palin was confusing and sometimes I found her hard to follow. However all she really had to do was to not feck up. The expectation was so low for her that as long as she didn't make any major gaffs she could be seen to have succeeded.

Overheal · 03-10-2008 2:36am

CNN Analyst scores

Palin: 66
Biden: 109

Tom65 · 03-10-2008 2:36am

I was hugely impressed with Biden. He seemed to know what he was talking about, and was, for the most part, able to articulate himself very well. Palin, though not terrible, was very average. She did well to throw out the rehearsed answers, but Biden's experience showed.

Macha · 03-10-2008 2:37am

Was it just me or did she admit to the mod that she found it really hard, when she was shaking her hand at the end?? May have just misheard that..

Overheal · 03-10-2008 2:37am

wow palins daughter is a ride too eh? heehee

*cough* jailbait *cough*

K-9 · 03-10-2008 2:38am

Overheal wrote: »

Biden really took control in that debate but that was not the same Palin we saw in the Couric interviews.

She'll reassure Some Republicans, Biden will reassure Independents, especially on Foreign Policy.

Biden will be viewed as the winner over time.

juvenal · 03-10-2008 2:39am

Biden was a clear winner, and despite Palin having some poor moments (especially in opening lines), she improved as it progressed.

I thought the image at the end as they met in mid-stage almost made it look like a senpai/kōhai relationship, which won't help the Republican ticket.

I'm not sure what some of the CNN "experts" were watching tonight (Ed Rollins - seriously is it too much to ask for some unbiased analysis??) !?!??

MementoMori · 03-10-2008 2:39am

Let the spin begin

Much better debate than the first presidental

Palin didnt crash and burn which looked a possibility after Couric.

However her focus on image as opposed to substance was worrying.

She really came accross as the "beauty pagent" candidate.

I thought Biden was very impressive and won the substance of the debate.

The question is whether Biden or Palin will pull in any extra voters to the ticket. I can see Biden's performance winning over more of the middle ground (which is where the election will be won or lost) as opposed to Palin.

While Palin's performance will play well with the right-wingers, I cant see her getting many people from the middle ground to shift towards the McCain ticket.

amacachi · 03-10-2008 2:39am

God I wish Biden was the presidential candidate, I wouldn't mind at all who won then.

K-9 · 03-10-2008 2:39am

Overheal wrote: »

CNN Analyst scores

Palin: 66
Biden: 109

For UNDECIDED'S about right!

Overheal · 03-10-2008 2:40am

True. For tonight she seems to have gotten through to more americans though. Biden entering C-Span talk mode tends to glaze the average voter's eyes over a wee bit. Using plain talk helped her, but then again Biden on her back pointing out she wasnt answering the questions worked very much against her. Personally I clicked with biden. I found myself muttering wtf? when palin started speaking in a lot of places.

MementoMori · 03-10-2008 2:41am

sink wrote: »

Biden was definitely the better speaker as he came across clear and concise whereas Palin was confusing and sometimes I found her hard to follow. However all she really had to do was to not feck up. The expectation was so low for her that as long as she didn't make any major gaffs she could be seen to have succeeded.

Completely agree on this.

Still can't understand why Palin was so hard to follow - individual sentences worked but she didnt seem to have any central point. Maybe a question of syntax or even accent?

Macha · 03-10-2008 2:42am

MementoMori wrote: »

Completely agree on this.

Still can't understand why Palin was so hard to follow - individual sentences worked but she didnt seem to have any central point. Maybe a question of syntax or even accent?

I think the technical term is bullsh!tting

BlitzKrieg · 03-10-2008 2:43am

ok i got work in 4 hours.

BED!

No more debates on weeknights please.

Sir Digby Chicken Caesar · 03-10-2008 2:43am

next one is a tuesday, and you won't have the erection induced attention span to keep you awake through it

Overheal · 03-10-2008 2:44am

I dont see when she would have gotten the skill needed to stay focused on a point. on the senate floor its your life. but as a governor i guess you arent under the microscope all the time and its not a requirement to articulate the same stuff we all did in LC Hons English essays. Another thing that will have worked against her for sure.

K-9 · 03-10-2008 2:44am

MementoMori wrote: »

Completely agree on this.

Still can't understand why Palin was so hard to follow - individual sentences worked but she didnt seem to have any central point. Maybe a question of syntax or even accent?

She'll reassure the grass roots who where losing faith in her!

Biden won though!

juvenal · 03-10-2008 2:44am

taconnol wrote: »

I think the technical term is bullsh!tting

That'll be bovine faeces when the spin doctors analyse

Tom65 · 03-10-2008 2:46am

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

ok i got work in 4 hours.

BED!

No more debates on weeknights please.

Yes. Nearly 5am here.

I've no lectures the days after the next debates. I'll enjoy a good drinking game then.

Goodnight all.

lostexpectation · 03-10-2008 2:47am

melissa long mmmm

MementoMori · 03-10-2008 2:51am

Seanies32 wrote: »

She'll reassure the grass roots who where losing faith in her!

Biden won though!

The thing is these grass roots were going to vote for McCain anyway - this has reassured sure, but the thing is the voter in the centre who is going to decide this election would surely be more likelier to vote Obama/Biden than McCain/Palin after this debate.

I think the VP race is a secondary factor in the Presidental race and the key thing people consider if they give it any real thought is - would I be happy if something happened the President and the VP ended up in power - in this case surely Biden has to be a major advantage as opposed to Palin.

Biden is unlikely to put many people off voting Obama whereas Palin is sure to lose McCain votes. The question is how many?

CivilServant · 03-10-2008 2:51am

juvenal wrote: »

That'll be bovine faeces when the spin doctors analyse

Misfart.

cooker3 · 03-10-2008 2:55am

MementoMori wrote: »

The thing is these grass roots were going to vote for McCain anyway - this has reassured sure

That is by no means a certainity. A lot of the right wing are unconvinced by McCain. The Rush Limbaugh listeners etc. Palins appointment was to appease them so it's pretty vital for her to shore that base up. If she and McCain can't then it's over

lostexpectation · 03-10-2008 2:55am

banquo notice how i started a thread an hour before you, and i don't know why anyone would go into a thread about pubs showing the debate eitehr.

Macha · 03-10-2008 2:58am

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tOAm9ZCCpqg

What actually happened...

MementoMori · 03-10-2008 2:59am

cooker3 wrote: »

That is by no means a certainity. A lot of the right wing are unconvinced by McCain. The Rush Limbaugh listeners etc. Palins appointment was to appease them so it's pretty vital for her to shore that base up. If she and McCain can't then it's over

I disagree with this as when push came to shove, these right-wingers were always going to row in behind McCain - they might not like him but they would have voted for him through gritted teeth.

If McCain/Palin weren't able to secure these voters they wouldnt have been anywhere near Obama in the polls.

Overheal · 03-10-2008 3:22am

MementoMori wrote: »

I disagree with this as when push came to shove, these right-wingers were always going to row in behind McCain - they might not like him but they would have voted for him through gritted teeth.

If McCain/Palin weren't able to secure these voters they wouldnt have been anywhere near Obama in the polls.

yep. they might not like mccain but they by no means see obama as a viable alternative.

Manic Moran · 03-10-2008 3:40am

Still can't understand why Palin was so hard to follow

I have to say, I had no particular problem in following her when she had a point to make. Indeed, sometimes I had more gripe with Biden: He usually made good points, but sometimes you wished he'd hurry up and get to it without laying all that supporting groundwork.

I did dislike her tendancy to go to talking points, I think that was a bad move.

On the 'inaccuracy-meter', Palin screwed up the 'Obama never said the surge worked' line, he did finally conclude that it did. (though it was like pulling teeth). On a not-so-blatant level, Biden mis-characterised McKiernan on an Afghanistan surge. McKiernan wanted a wide-ranging dedication of assets, not just military, but he did not say that he didn't want a military buildup.

[Edit]The other one I caught was Biden's assertion that as the only thing the VP does which is related to the legislature is cast tie-breaking votes he's not part of the legislative branch.. For example, Cheney used his 'President of the Senate' hat to file in the Heller Supreme Court case in opposition to the Administration's position. (Administration wanted to remand, Cheney to sustain). Arguably this sort of thing can only be done in a capacity as a member of the legislature.

NTM

cooker3 · 03-10-2008 4:14am

Overheal wrote: »

yep. they might not like mccain but they by no means see obama as a viable alternative.

I am not saying they will vote Obama, they may not vote at all if they dislike McCain too much.

1 of the CNN panelists made an interesting point. For all the bad that came out of the Couric interviews, about 7 million watch cbs news, a few more million will have seen it on cable news shows and youtube etc but there will be a good 50 million people who would have watched this debate, a far bigger number so doing ok here will help her a lot.

Manic Moran · 03-10-2008 5:01am

I'm a little disappointed no mention of firearms. Would have been a meeting of extremes: The author of the (congress-losing) 1994 AWB vs the Moose-hunting rifle-toter.

banquo · 03-10-2008 7:55am

lostexpectation wrote: »

banquo notice how i started a thread an hour before you, and i don't know why anyone would go into a thread about pubs showing the debate eitehr.

Only 4 minutes in the difference, to my advantage.

Macha · 03-10-2008 8:28am

Manic Moran wrote: »

On the 'inaccuracy-meter', Palin screwed up the 'Obama never said the surge worked' line, he did finally conclude that it did. (though it was like pulling teeth). On a not-so-blatant level, Biden mis-characterised McKiernan on an Afghanistan surge. McKiernan wanted a wide-ranging dedication of assets, not just military, but he did not say that he didn't want a military buildup.

[Edit]The other one I caught was Biden's assertion that as the only thing the VP does which is related to the legislature is cast tie-breaking votes he's not part of the legislative branch.. For example, Cheney used his 'President of the Senate' hat to file in the Heller Supreme Court case in opposition to the Administration's position. (Administration wanted to remand, Cheney to sustain). Arguably this sort of thing can only be done in a capacity as a member of the legislature.

Not true on the McKiernan, or I thnk you mean McClellan...?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7649817.stm

Any pub showing the debate tonight

Comments