'Asgard II' more likely to be raised as exploration reveals it is largely intact

Tabnabs

PROSPECTS OF salvaging the sail training ship Asgard II have increased, following the discovery that the hull is upright and "largely intact" on the seabed in the Bay of Biscay.

An initial survey by a remotely operated vehicle (ROV) has also confirmed that one of the hull's planks has a significant fracture.

However, the Department of Defence said that it is "not possible at this stage to determine whether this has resulted from impact with the seabed, or was the original cause of the sinking".

The French coast guard has confirmed that the area where the ship sank on September 11th, some 22km (14 miles) west of Belle-Île on the French northwest coast, has a sandy bottom with no significant rocks.

Marine experts believe the fracture in the plank could have been caused on impact - such as by collision with a hatch cover washed off a merchant ship. Hatch covers are frequent and dangerous debris in busy shipping lanes, and some are fitted with iron spikes which can have a lancing effect.

Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea said yesterday in a statement that he and his fellow directors on Coiste an Asgard, which runs the State's sail training programme, would like to "thank everyone who has sent messages of support and good wishes on the unfortunate accident".

"Until further investigations are carried out, it is not possible to say whether Asgard II can be salvaged," his department's statement said.

However, an early salvage before the weather deteriorates could prove significantly cheaper than building a replacement vessel. The vessel is insured for €3.8 million, according to the department, and a salvage before the vessel deteriorates could be carried out for less than €2 million.

All 25 crew members and trainees on Asgard II were evacuated to life-rafts, and rescued by volunteers with the French marine rescue service, SNSM, early on September 11th.

The alarm was raised when the ship began to take in water which its bilge pumps couldn't cope with. The ship was en route from Falmouth in England to La Rochelle in France.

The ship sank, bow first, at 9.30am Irish time, just more than five hours after the alarm had been raised. Its position on the seabed in some 80m (263ft) of water was confirmed to the French Prefecture Maritime de l'Atlantique by a fishing vessel which was in the area and recorded it on sonar.

The inquiry into the sinking is being undertaken by the French in conjunction with Ireland's Marine Casualty Investigation Board.

The Asgard II won many international awards during its career, having been designed and built by the late Jack Tyrrell of Arklow, Co Wicklow and commissioned by the late taoiseach, Charles J Haughey, in 1981.

© 2008 The Irish Times

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1003/1222959305659.html

Punchesnpeaches

I hope that they will salvage her. I feel that if she's not salvaged, there won't be another built. The Minister keeps saying that it is unlikely that the ship building skills are available. This is despite the fact that the builders of the Dunbrody have said that they're ready and willing to build a new sailing vessel should one be required. There is also a suitable ship building premises in the South East. The Dunbrody was built for 6million, using only 3 shipwrights and the rest of the labour were trained through Fas. It would be so sad to let the tradition die.

junkyard

I hope she's salvaged too, it would be a very sad end to her otherwise. I'm pretty sure people who travelled on her and other interested parties would be willing to fundraise if money was a problem, I know I would contribute and help out.

maryjm

I am really hoping that they salvage her! I have sailed on her and I was so upset to hear she was sinking!! I know there are still some excellent boat builders around so heres to hoping that they bring her up and fix her!!
Fundrasing is defiantly a very good way of getting that bit extra money!I know I would contribute too!!

Tabnabs

The government wants to rescue the vessel from the bottom of the sea.

A plan to raise Asgard II, which is lying at the bottom of the sea off the French coast, will be presented to the cabinet before Christmas.

Willie O’Dea, the defence minister, hopes to commission a salvage company to raise the government’s training vessel so that it can be restored. Officials are in negotiations with a specialist firm which submitted a “favourable” tender to raise the ship, which was designed in the 1980s by Jack Tyrrell from Wicklow.

If a deal is agreed, the company could raise the vessel from the seabed as early as next spring, weather and tidal conditions permitting. The operation could be paid for using money from the ship’s insurance policy.

Asgard II was covered by Allianz, an international firm, for €3.8m. The Department of Defence is confident a full insurance payout would cover the entire cost of the salvage operation and a refit of the vessel if it is successfully refloated.

A survey of the sunken ship by a Remotely Operated Vehicle in September showed that Asgard II is largely intact and could be saved, although it lies under 80 metres of water 31 km off the French coast in the Bay of Biscay.

O’Dea told the Dail that the underwater survey found damage to one of the ship’s hull planks, but it was not possible to determine whether this had resulted from impact with the seabed, or had caused the sinking.

The spot on the seabed where it ended up, with a sandy bottom and no rock formations, is thought to have helped to keep the vessel’s hull intact.

“It is hoped that a deal can be reached some time next week to begin the process of raising Asgard II,” said a government source. “The minister believes the vessel is a national treasure and it’s his intention to present an action plan to the cabinet which would see the ship being raised and restored. “He has made no secret of the fact that he wants to save Asgard II if possible.”

The cost of commissioning a new sail ship would far exceed the insurance payout, and would reach €10m if an exact replica was created. That is unlikely, given the state of the public finances. The vessel was bought by the state for €635,000 in 1981.

O’Dea’s plan is supported by the board of Coiste an Asgard, the committee which maintained and operated the state-owned vessel before it sank en route to La Rochelle to participate in a maritime festival last September.

It was due to undergo routine maintenance work in France but, according to the Department of Defence, was in excellent seafaring condition. Some marine experts believe the sinking may have been caused by a collision with a freight container which fell off a merchant ship.

Another possibility is that a sea cock, a valve that controls the flow of water between the vessel’s exterior and interior, ruptured and flooded the vessel, forcing its captain to abandon ship and order his crew into life rafts.

O’Dea is expected to receive a full report on the cause of the accident in the coming months from the Marine Casualty Investigation Board, a government agency. The French authorities are also expected to file a report on the accident.

Suzanne Coogan, a defence spokeswoman, said a decision on the tendering process was likely to be made shortly.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5213657.ece

noby

Excellent news - hopefully it'll go ahead.

junkyard

Great news, I hope it goes ahead. I started a thread in Afterhours and hardly got a bit of support. I have to say I was dissapointed considering the thousands who sailed on her and even still nobody seems to be interested in starting a fundraiser or anything considering the whole idea was about getting poeple together, I'm a bit puzzelled tbh.

Tabnabs

O'Dea defends decisions on raising 'Asgard II'

GENEVIEVE CARBERY

THE INSURER of sail training ship Asgard II has given the go-ahead for its salvage but the final decision has yet to be made by the Minister for Defence and Coiste an Asgard.

"Coiste an Asgard is examining the tenders raised by Allianz and a decision will be made in the next week or so," a Department of Defence spokeswoman said last night. The vessel, which sank on September 11th off France, is insured by Allianz for €3.8 million, according to the department.

Minister for Defence Willie O'Dea yesterday denied delaying a decision on raising the ship from the seabed.

Fine Gael defence spokesman Jimmy Deenihan TD warned that the delay in raising the ship was putting the chances of its salvage in danger. This was partly due to "weather windows" closing as the year goes on and partly due to potential silt damage, he said.

"If the Minister has already decided to leave the Asgard II at the bottom of the ocean, he should say so. It would be politically dishonest to wait until it is too late for the Asgard II to be raised and then say that your hands are tied."

Mr O'Dea accused the Fine Gael TD of "attempting to score points by suggesting there is some political indecision".

"There is no question of decisions being delayed or avoided and to suggest otherwise, which Deputy Deenihan is doing, is absolutely scurrilous," Mr O'Dea said.

There were many risks associated with "a hasty and ill-prepared attempt to salvage the ship".

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1204/1228337398210.html

junkyard

Typical, looks like they're playing games with this too, unfortunately the longer it's left the less chance there is of saving it.:mad:

Corcaigh84

junkyard wrote: »

Typical, looks like they're playing games with this too, unfortunately the longer it's left the less chance there is of saving it.:mad:

Was talking to my uncle who's a long time sailor, and sailed on many ships including the Asgard (don't want to give his rank as it would give away his ID...)

While this might sound more at home in the conspiracy forum, he believes there is a possibility it was hit accidentally by a French sub, as there is a busy naval base in that vicinity.
Raising it now could prove this, but leaving it at the bottom until the winter storms break it up would destroy the evidence, and save Willie some political grief:o Could be wrecked by now, who knows. Either way it's a crying shame.

noby

For what it's worth Afloat have set up an online petition to raise her. You can add your name to it here.

Judgement Day

I have just signed the petition and added the following message. What does anybody else think of my suggestion regarding a special Lotto draw?


Would Willie O'Dea ever get off his arse!
I really despair of this fool, would he ever get on with it and get the Asgard raised ASAP. If funding is a problem why not have a special "Lotto" draw run by the National Lottery especially to fund the recovery/restoration. Not only would this get the funding in place fast but it would also demonstrate the support that is out there amongst the Irish public!! However, this would demonstrate the famous, much talked about and never seen - "Thinking outside the box".

Tabnabs

Thursday, February 5, 2009

MINISTER FOR Defence Willie O’Dea will make a decision by the end of the week on whether the national sail training vessel Asgard II will be salvaged, following its sinking off the northwest coast of France last year.

Mr O’Dea told the Dáil that the board of the Coiste an Asgard met yesterday and he expected a recommendation within a day or two “as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation. I will then make a decision on the matter immediately.”

Fine Gael defence spokesman Jimmy Deenihan said it was more than five months since the vessel sank and there had been two surveys. “The Minister must have been able to act and make up his mind on whether it was salvageable or not after the first survey.

“How many surveys do you need? In the meantime, we have lost a number of weather windows when a salvage operation could have been carried out.” He added that the Minister “should be leading” on the issue.

However, Mr O’Dea said that “you don’t have a dog and bark yourself”. He said he gets advice from the board.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117532.html

Slig

Dyflin wrote: »

Thursday, February 5, 2009

MINISTER FOR Defence Willie O’Dea will make a decision by the end of the week on whether the national sail training vessel Asgard II will be salvaged, following its sinking off the northwest coast of France last year.

Mr O’Dea told the Dáil that the board of the Coiste an Asgard met yesterday and he expected a recommendation within a day or two “as to whether to proceed with a salvage operation. I will then make a decision on the matter immediately.”

Fine Gael defence spokesman Jimmy Deenihan said it was more than five months since the vessel sank and there had been two surveys. “The Minister must have been able to act and make up his mind on whether it was salvageable or not after the first survey.

“How many surveys do you need? In the meantime, we have lost a number of weather windows when a salvage operation could have been carried out.” He added that the Minister “should be leading” on the issue.

However, Mr O’Dea said that “you don’t have a dog and bark yourself”. He said he gets advice from the board.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2009/0205/1233787117532.html

he needs the advice from the board, the board needs his approval which he wont give unless he gets approval from the board. Why cant we actually ever just do anything?

junkyard

From the looks of it, raising the Asgard is not going to happen. Tbh it should have been raised within a month of it sinking and could have been realistically only for the fact that our Fianna Fail government couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery, probably the fact that it would have to be approved and checked by the thousands of people in departments for this that and the other. It's no wonder the country's in the mess it's in and has been for years. A whole shower of wasters, sad thing is it's our money they waste and will continue to waste for as long as they get away with it.:mad:

timmywex

The national sail training vessel Asgard II is to remain in its watery grave in the Bay of Biscay off the coast of France after it sank mysteriously last September.

The brigantine will not now be salvaged, and instead efforts are likely to focus on identifying a replacement vessel. Sources close to the vessel's management committee, Coiste An Asgard, have told the Sunday Independent that the committee decided unanimously to make a recommendation to Defence Minister Willie O'Dea not to raise the vessel, mainly on grounds of the cost involved.

However, it is understood that Mr O'Dea has not yet received the report.

The news will come as a blow to the many seafaring interests who had called for the ship to be salvaged and rebuilt. However, although the vessel was insured for €3.8m with salvage costs around €2m, the cost of rebuilding the vessel with the craftsmanship skills and labour involved was thought to be prohibitive.

It's also thought that the long period in which she lay underwater during the winter may have contributed substantially to the cost of rebuilding the Asgard II.

The ship was on a cruise from Falmouth in the UK to La Rochelle in France when it sank 20 miles off the French coast. There were five crew members and 20 trainees on board at the time but they were all safely evacuated.

The decision to abandon the vessel and take to the liferafts was taken by ship's captain Colm Newport, who was praised for his actions. The crew and trainees were taken by the French Coastguard to a nearby island.

An underwater inspection of the ship took place in October which indicated that the ship was upright and largely intact.

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/cost-issues-condemn-asgard-ii-to-remain-in-its-watery-grave-1632516.html


A sad day, she was a great ship, unfortunately id rfekon the chances of a new one being brought are slim in the current situation

timmywex

timmywex wrote: »

A sad day, she was a great ship, unfortunately id rfekon the chances of a new one being brought are slim in the current situation

Very True..

Such a pity!

I've seen her in so many ports when I worked at sea myself.

Tipsy Mac

Pity she sank, she was a good boat for the puspose the served, I think though as this stage of her being underwater for almost 5 months it would not be financially viable to raise her.

Slig

Just heard that the bord intend to leave her. The Asgard will not be raised:(

Tabnabs

MINISTER FOR Defence Willie O’Dea has been advised to commission the building of a replica Asgard II for the national sail training programme.

The Minister has been advised to leave the existing wooden-built brigantine on the seabed off northwest France, and to build a steel replacement on safety and cost grounds.

The recommendations have been made by Coiste an Asgard, the committee which manages the sail training programme on behalf of the Department of Defence.

The committee commissioned an initial survey of the vessel last September, several weeks after it sank some 22km (13½ miles) west of Belle-Ile while en route to La Rochelle.

All 25 crew and trainees were evacuated safely to life rafts when the ship began taking in water in the early hours of September 11th. They were picked up by the French rescue services, and the 27-year-old brigantine sank several hours later.

The initial survey showed that the ship was sitting upright and in good condition in some 83m of water. Images showed damage to one of its planks which may have been consistent with a collision.

Mr O’Dea was urged to commission a salvage operation before winter closed in on the Bay of Biscay. The vessel was insured for €3.8 million.

Although tenders were sought from three salvage firms, no decision was taken before Christmas and a second survey was then sought by Coiste an Asgard. In January the ship’s master, Capt Colm Newport, expressed confidence that the vessel was in good enough condition to be raised.

However, bad weather prevented use of the remotely operated vehicle to film the hull during the second survey, although a depth sounder image confirmed the vessel was still on the seabed.

Coiste an Asgard now believes that the insurance money would best be spent on building a steel replacement, given that the cost of salvage could be €2 million and weather dependent. It is understood that the committee also believes that the cost of restoration after salvage could be prohibitive, and prospective trainees might not wish to sail on a ship that had already sunk.

Some sail training organisations prefer to rely on steel vessels for safety reasons, and because of the cost of maintaining wooden ships.

Speaking on the issue in the Dáil last week, Mr O’Dea said that, “we must apply hard logic in making these decisions; one cannot make a decision based on emotion”.

He added that there were “a number of difficulties with the [proposed] salvage operation”.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0209/1233867927975.html

FF stole our maritime heritage (and future)

:pac::pac::pac:

Drummerboy08

Its a huge shame that she wont be raised.

Lots of memories on board her, some of which i wont go into too much detail.....:D;):rolleyes:

Still, i'd like to see her raised. I just hope that there is a replacement sought.

junkyard

It doesn't suprise me to be honest, anything Fianna Failure is involved in is bound to fail including our country by the looks of it. Is it fair to say Asgard is now fair game for an indepentant salvage operation?

Steel replacement?

I'm disgusted.

prospective trainees might not wish to sail on a ship that had already sunk.

A slap into my face. Who consisted of this panel? Methinks Little Willie was pushing for this, and didn't want to go to the Brians to put his hand out for a boat.

Damn them all to Hades.

Judgement Day

Letter to the Editor’s Page – Irish Times 11/2/09


Madam, – The Asgard II training vessel still lies damaged in the Bay of Biscay. Both Asgard and Asgard II have a long and honourable history in this country. They are symbols of our struggle for freedom and our present commitment to train young people in seafaring skills.
My family has a particularly strong link to both boats – my grandparents sailed the Asgard into Howth with its cargo of weapons for the Irish Volunteers. In these grim and forbidding days surely this is the moment to reinvigorate our spirits and our hopes for the future by raising Asgard II from the its underwater prison.
It appears that most of the cost of raising the vessel will be covered by insurance. It is time for the Minister for Defence to accelerate efforts to salvage the boat. – Yours, etc,
NESSA CHILDERS,
Castle Street,
Bray,
Co Wicklow.

---

I have never even seen the Asgard II, except on TV, but I do believe it should be saved. I posted an item about raising the Asgard II elsewhere on these boards a few days ago but the response has been dismal - possibly due to a feeling of helplessness rather than indifference. Have the Irish people as a Nation really no sense of pride in their heritage unless it is the GAA or lip service to long dead patriots?

Boot Leg Mick

Whats wrong with using the Jennie Johnson as a sail training vessel ? Everytime I see it tied up in the Dublin Docklands (where it seems to be, all of the time) I think ..... WHAT A WASTE !!!
Its a shame to see such a great boat spending all of its time tied up against a wall. Get it out on the water !!

Slig

I dont see anything wrong with using the Jeenie Johnston as a stop gap but I not really a sailer. I have heard thats shes more trawler than tall ship, not very responsive, big draft and it takes a gale to move her.

Tabnabs

Slig wrote: »

I dont see anything wrong with using the Jeenie Johnston as a stop gap but I not really a sailer. I have heard thats shes more trawler than tall ship, not very responsive, big draft and it takes a gale to move her.

I think one trip on her would completely rewrite the above statement. The fact that she has done two transatlantics should be a clue...

junkyard

It looks like French fishermen are going to break Asgard up of she's not lifted as their nets are getting caught up on the wreck as she in a fishing area.:( It has to be said he days are numbered now by the looks of it thanks to O'Dea and company, useless w@nkers.:mad:

Pigeon Reaper

It's just been announced that she won't be salvaged now.

Slig

Dyflin wrote: »

I think one trip on her would completely rewrite the above statement. The fact that she has done two transatlantics should be a clue...

As I said I'm not a sailor, just relaying what I've been told (Its the internet, it is my right DUTY to spread unsubstantiated rumours in order to sound like I know what I'm talking about:D)

Besides we have 2 tall ships, The Dunbrody and The Jennie Johnston.

Drummerboy08

One problem i can see with using the Jeanie Johnson and the Dunbrody, is size. Both vessels are alot bigger that the Asgard - i would imagine using either vessel would limit the training schedule to harbours and ports that could take something of that size.

For example, when i sailed on Asgard, we stayed in Arklow for 2 nights - i know neither vessel would be able to tie up in the birth that we were in for those days - it was extremely tight, and i doubt it would be deep enough to take the draught that either vessel take.

I may be wrong, but thats my opinion on it.