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Is there really quotas that the State Examinations Commision have to make for grades?

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  • 03-10-2008 9:45pm
    #1
    damienricefan
    Registered Users Posts: 165 ✭✭


    Because i have read a few threads where people have mentioned that there is a set number of A's B's C's etc.

    Is this poppycock made up by hear'say or does it have any factual value?

    surely it merits on quality and knowing your stuff?


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    #2
    K4t
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,362 ✭✭✭K4t


    07_04_06_b_flat_landscape.jpg


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    #3
    timmywex
    Registered Users Posts: 2,626 ✭✭✭timmywex


    Look at the stats available on examinations.ie , all the percentages of a's, b's c's etc will by the most part be roughly the same, they keep them the same every year, i might get an a1 one year, and write exact same answer when repeating but only get an a2, depends on the general results as to how the marking schemes are tweaked!


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    #4
    AlkalineAcid
    Registered Users Posts: 281 ✭✭AlkalineAcid


    Quotas are imaginary. The percentages are the same each year because the students each year are the same.


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    #5
    Fad
    Registered Users Posts: 7,231 ✭✭✭Fad


    damienricefan wrote: »
    Because i have read a few threads where people have mentioned that there is a set number of A's B's C's etc.

    Is this poppycock made up by hear'say or does it have any factual value?

    surely it merits on quality and knowing your stuff?

    They exist with the GCSE and Alevels but NOT with the leaving cert


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    #6
    Piste
    Registered Users Posts: 11,440 ✭✭✭✭Piste


    My maths teacher said this is true, if there are two few As or too many As the marking scheme and allocation of marks will be jigged around so the quota of As is reached.


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    #7
    IrishKnight
    Registered Users Posts: 922 ✭✭✭IrishKnight


    All of the leaving cert. results are fitted to a bell curve.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Normal_distribution


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    #8
    brianthebard
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,165 ✭✭✭✭brianthebard


    Yes they will send exam papers back and tell the teacher/marker to bring up x amount of papers so they have a certain amount of passes, and to keep the fails as low as possible. Makes the government look better y'see. Course it also undermines the education system generally.


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    #9
    spurious
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Education Moderators Posts: 27,228 CMod ✭✭✭✭spurious


    No there is no quota.

    What there IS on this thread is a misunderstanding of how examinations work, as well as the usual hearsay nonsense.

    Each year the Leaving Cert grades fit into a bell curve. This is not the same as having quotas. It is to maintain the standard of the exam. If this were not the case, you would end up with a system similar to wine vintages in the Leaving Cert. A 2000 A in Maths could be viewed as better than a 1999 or 2004 A in Maths*. It would be ludicrous.

    Piste - your Maths teacher should know the difference between having quotas and the revising of marking schemes to fit the bell curve. They are not the same thing at all.

    *these are just examples, in case anyone gets their drawers in a bunch.


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    #10
    mikemac
    Closed Accounts Posts: 19,986 ✭✭✭✭mikemac


    There should be for English

    Are there really quotas that the State Examinations Commision have to make for grades?

    That's not a helpful post, sorry OP


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    #11
    MathsManiac
    Registered Users Posts: 1,595 ✭✭✭MathsManiac


    Crikey! Not this rubbish again.

    Anyone who claims that LC results are made to fit a bell curve should try drawing some histograms of LC distributions. If there is someone trying to make them into bell curves, they're doing a damn poor job of it!

    Have a look at this thread from the summer. I'm too tired to start all over again!
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055311343


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    #12
    Mark200
    Registered Users Posts: 3,536 ✭✭✭Mark200


    As spurious said, marking schemes are adjusted so that roughly the same amount of A's and B's etc (percentage wise) are achieved every year...

    I don't think this is really possible in subjects like English though, but I do know (as I've been told from two separate examiners) that this is the case in Maths


    It's to ensure that the difficulty of getting an A and B is the same every year


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    #13
    heywhatever
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13 ✭heywhatever


    On one hand this wouldn't surprise me, because I have heard the same in colleges; but on the other hand hearing that like 5,000 people failed maths last year in the leaving kinda dispels this theory...


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    #14
    KeyLimePie
    Closed Accounts Posts: 861 ✭✭✭KeyLimePie


    its true, our english teacher corrected junior cert english paper 1s 2 years ago and they made him change some grades to get the quotas
    obviously you can't really do this for maths and chemistry but for irish english french etc yes there is


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    #15
    smndly
    Registered Users Posts: 221 ✭✭smndly


    What happens is that they sample a certain number of papers after the leaving cert and get a rough idea how people did. THEN they make up the marking scheme based on these results. So if students tended to perform poorly; they would have a lenient marking scheme and vice versa.

    For example the chemistry paper was deemed quite easy this year so they added in little sneaky criteria such as needing heat and ethanol to get 4 marks instead of giving 2 marks each.


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    #16
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    KeyLimePie wrote: »
    its true, our english teacher corrected junior cert english paper 1s 2 years ago and they made him change some grades to get the quotas
    obviously you can't really do this for maths and chemistry but for irish english french etc yes there is

    Oh ffs, this rubbish again! For a start, Junior cert paper one and two are corrected together, so whatever your teacher said, you've got it wrong. Yes, some grades are changed but NOT to get a quota! What would be the point of that?! When you mark, some of your papers are checked by your advising examiner. If you've marked too easy, they'll ask you to check your other papers and sometimes there are grade changes, but it's nothing to do with quotas, it's to do with keeping a standard of marking across the board.


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    #17
    M_G_M_T
    Closed Accounts Posts: 17 ✭M_G_M_T


    deemark wrote: »
    Oh ffs, this rubbish again! For a start, Junior cert paper one and two are corrected together, so whatever your teacher said, you've got it wrong. Yes, some grades are changed but NOT to get a quota! What would be the point of that?! When you mark, some of your papers are checked by your advising examiner. If you've marked too easy, they'll ask you to check your other papers and sometimes there are grade changes, but it's nothing to do with quotas, it's to do with keeping a standard of marking across the board.

    I was always told that in the junior cert that the papers were corrected by different examiners. But at leaving cert, the same examiner corrected both of the papers.


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    #18
    implausible
    Registered Users Posts: 3,937 ✭✭✭implausible


    M_G_M_T wrote: »
    I was always told that in the junior cert that the papers were corrected by different examiners. But at leaving cert, the same examiner corrected both of the papers.

    The papers were corrected separately about 10 years ago. Whoever told you that isn't correcting English now.


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