Elite XC "Heat" Discussion thread ** Will Contain Spoilers **

t-ha

Based on what I saw last night, AA doesn't stand a chance against Fedor - a good exciting display of striking from him but his wrestling and submission defence aren't up to the Russian.

Also thought Shields came out looking bad from his fight, well, if he wants to be considered a top-tier WW anyway. His stand-up was totally exposed, and where his control on the ground was good he kept throwing himself right off to the side before he'd passed his leg over Daley's head in his arm-bar attempts.

Gina looked good - maybe needs to improve her wrestling and start pummeling harder for underhooks when she's clinched up against the cage. I also think she should keep that overhand right a bit tighter as she leaves herself very open to straight counters. Nice left hooks though. Fair play to a game Kobald also.

The Kimbo thing? Well these things can happen when you don't have an honest champion. One of the reasons I like to watch MMA over boxing is that, for the most part, if a guy goes out and wins a fight then he wins and if he doesn't he doesn't, and the promoters give guys fights that are always going to test them. It's honest, for the most part. I'm glad that the Kimbo train has been, if not derailed, at least dented a bit. It's an insult to guys like Robbie Lawlor and Jake Shields tbh.

I have to laugh at Ken Shamrock, he said he was going to expose Kimbo in every way possible and he did it! The man who 'has done so much for MMA' has just done a little more ha ha.

Fozzy

t-ha wrote: »

The Kimbo thing? Well these things can happen when you don't have an honest champion. One of the reasons I like to watch MMA over boxing is that, for the most part, if a guy goes out and wins a fight then he wins and if he doesn't he doesn't, and the promoters give guys fights that are always going to test them. It's honest, for the most part. I'm glad that the Kimbo train has been, if not derailed, at least dented a bit. It's an insult to guys like Robbie Lawlor and Jake Shields tbh.

I have to laugh at Ken Shamrock, he said he was going to expose Kimbo in every way possible and he did it! The man who 'has done so much for MMA' has just done a little more ha ha.

Really though, is Kimbo being exposed like this a good thing for MMA? It's too early to say too much, but this could very likely have been the death knell for EliteXC. Is one less somewhat-viable competitor for the UFC a good thing for MMA?

Fozzy

Just a few more interesting notes from Dave Meltzer about the show:

EliteXC had to pay Kimbo more money to get him to take the fight with Petruzelli

They were planning to do a verbal exchange between Ken and Frank during the show at one point, to build to a fight between them, but that got cancelled for some reason

After the show some EliteXC employees were asking him if there's any boxing jobs going. Doesn't sound like the company are too optimistic about the future

The Sparrow

rovert wrote: »

What do have to say now? Mauro even mentioned they should have gotten him.

Dude when your argument is that you are right cos Mauro says something that is not a good one... Mauro is one of the worst commentators I have ever heard and he usually comes across like a complete moron.

Anyway all I can say is thank god for UFC. If EXC were the No. 1 company in MMA then the sport would be doomed. Complete clowns tbh to make the Kimbo v Petruzelli fight. There was absolutely no upside to it. If Kimbo wins then it is just another victory aganst an unknown fighter who only had a couple of hours notice. And now that Petruzelli won Kimbo has been totally exposed. ANd for what? Absolutely nothing.

They should have just pulled Kimbo from the card and at least they would still have him as a draw. I think they will EXC will most likely die and whilst that is a real shame for their female fighters, the really don't deserve to be still in existence.

On occasion's like this I thank God that at least Dana and UFC know what they are doing.

rovert

woooo232 wrote: »

Dude when your argument is that you are right cos Mauro says something that is not a good one... Mauro is one of the worst commentators I have ever heard and he usually comes across like a complete moron.

It was a joke, Ill press on your foot the next time I make one.

Dragan

The thing about Shields is you are only ever going to be as bad as your competition, when that steps up then you have to. For me he has fought some very solid fighters but no one who was really on a career tear at the time.

Up till now his weaker area's were not really as massive issue. If he really wants to step up at WW it will mean an org change and some serious work on his stand up. Right now i would bet on a lot of the WW division in the UFC to give Shield fits.

I'm honestly feeling bad for Slice. He's getting it in the neck over the way he was promoted. Stepping up to fight Seth impressed me. If he could get more money for it then fair play to him, i work to get paid.

Feel bad for Daley. Really like him as a fighter but once again he needs to work on that area that cost him the win to make it to the higher level.

Arlovski didn't really show me all that much to convince me he can take Fedor. That said, i am expecting him to be able to give Fedor at least a bit of a run. I would hope that his knowledge of Sambo which Fedor's game plans repeatedly use to change the flow of fights can force the Russian to do something new and maybe change the game all over again.

I do know that with these two fighters, both incredibly respectful for the most part, will not let anything other than skillset sell the fight, so i am curious as to the numbers it can do.

I don't predict too much fight hyping from either.

Dragan

Dragan wrote: »

I do know that with these two fighters, both incredibly respectful for the most part, will not let anything other than skillset sell the fight, so i am curious as to the numbers it can do.

I don't predict too much fight hyping from either.

I'd agree to be honest. Though for us it's an absolute dream match. Arlovski on the feet looks better and better every single time I see him. To be fair to him he defended the kimura very well and looked relaxed but I think he needs to work more on his bottom game.

if Fedor chooses to stand with Andrei he could be in for a long night but i would doubt he will stand with him.

The Sparrow

Deleted User wrote: »

if Fedor chooses to stand with Andrei he could be in for a long night but i would doubt he will stand with him.

Arlovski is good on his feet... but not that good! I would think that if Fedor stands with him then Arlovski will be going to sleep pretty soon. Arlovski's chin is suspect so I don't predict much of a chance for him. He was even rocked last night.

RNCFAN

woooo232 wrote: »

Arlovski is good on his feet... but not that good! I would think that if Fedor stands with him then Arlovski will be going to sleep pretty soon. Arlovski's chin is suspect so I don't predict much of a chance for him. He was even rocked last night.

QFT.

DefenseSoapEire

I think fedor would have been able to finish the kimura.

I'm disappointed for Paul Daley, very entertaining fighter.

I still think EXC will continue to make a lot of money from Kimbo despite the loss . . . am I the only one who thought Shamrock would beat him anyway?

Nothingcompares

What did people think of the refereeing of the Kimbo fight? It looked like the ref stepping in to stop Seth and put his palm on him but let him hit a good few more times before he actually stopped it.

I think Arloski offers an intersting match up for Fedor due to his size and speed and general athleticsm. He might be able to keep out of harms way longers than some of Fedor's previous opponents.

DefenseSoapEire

DefenseSoapEire wrote: »

I still think EXC will continue to make a lot of money from Kimbo despite the loss . . . am I the only one who thought Shamrock would beat him anyway?

Cant get Kens fight with Buzz Berry out of my head. he was just so appallingly bad in that fight that I don't think he can beat anyone anymore.

Frank would have torn Kimbo apart if they'd let him fight.

calex71

Nothingcompares wrote: »

He might be able to keep out of harms way longers than some of Fedor's previous opponents.

Id also love to see Fedor truly tested but at his weight class and level i doubt ill see anything that goes a real distance.

frank v ken why not Fedor v Aleksander

i think some people are under rating Arlovskis stand up. If Fedor chose to stand with him then there's a very realistic chance AA could KO him. AA's chin would suggest that fedor can also KO Andrei but don't count out Andrei on landing that punch. It's on the ground where AA hasn't a prayer. That said...sambo vs sambo...nice!

Dragan

DefenseSoapEire wrote: »

I still think EXC will continue to make a lot of money from Kimbo despite the loss . . . am I the only one who thought Shamrock would beat him anyway?

EXC haven't even started making money yet. They are seriously financially ****ed at the moment.

DefenseSoapEire

should have made my point clearer

i still think they will use kimbo as one of their main draws

I can see them running Shamrock v shamrock very soon to try to make as much money as hey can.

rovert

Deleted User wrote: »

I can see them running Shamrock v shamrock very soon to try to make as much money as hey can.

That has always been the plan

Yea but I meant sooner than planned.

Dragan

It's yet to be seen how much Kimbo's loss will actually affect his mystique.

I think he will still be a draw for EliteXC. I actually think the CBS deal is actually going to kill them and am starting to understand why Dana has been slow to put pen to paper for a TV deal.

Vince135792003

Dragan wrote: »

I think he will still be a draw for EliteXC.

Elite XC better hope he still is or sign a Tito.

It's hard to say really. In some cases, people who draw, still draw well past their peak. In other cases, people who get pushed heavily and are shown up the way he is, never recover.

Apparently, the show is getting heavily criticised in the press over there.

Fozzy

Deleted User wrote: »

Yea but I meant sooner than planned.

Frank was saying on Saturday that that fight is still planned for April. He seemed to suggest that that would be his first fight back. He also threw in names like Ortiz, Cung Le, possibly Lawler, to fight after Ken. He mentioned getting into boxing too, though I'd say he was joking there

Fozzy

Fozzy wrote: »

He mentioned getting into boxing too, though I'd say he was joking there

I wouldnt be suprised if he believed himself that he could beat Mayweather in a boxing match. He's peculiar like that....which probably is his best attribute.

SuperWoody101

The salaries of the fighters have been announced, and I think its a crock and no wonder that EliteXC are likely going to be bankrupt by the end of 2008

Seth Petruzelli - $50,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def.
Kimbo Slice - $500,000

Andrei Arlovski - $500,000
def.
Roy Nelson - $80,000

Jake Shields - $50,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def.
Paul Daley - $12,000

Gina Carano - $25,000 ($10,000 win bonus)
def.
Kelly Kobold - $6,000

Benji Radach - $30,000 ($15,000 win bonus)
def.
Murilo "Ninja" Rua - $35,000

Cristiane "Cyborg" Santos - $8,000 ($4,000 win bonus)
def.
Yoko Takahashi - $2,000

Conor Heun - $5,000 ($2,500 win bonus)
def.
James Edson Berto - $6,000

Mikey Gomez - $4,000 ($2,000 win bonus)
def.
Lorenzo Borgomeo - $1,500

Bryan Hamade - $1,000 ($500 win bonus)
def.
David Gomez - $1,000

Nicolae Cury - $1,500 ($750 win bonus)
def.
Jorge Boechat - $1,000

Fozzy

SuperWoody101 wrote: »

The salaries of the fighters have been announced, and I think its a crock and no wonder that EliteXC are likely going to be bankrupt by the end of 2008

Keep in mind that they didn't pay Arlovski or Nelson's salaries. I'm surprised that Arlovski only got half a million. I think that there's more to it than that

Petruzelli also got paid more for taking the fight with Kimbo. If Shamrock had been fighting he'd have got a six-figure sum, so they did save some money there

Vince135792003

Fozzy wrote: »

Petruzelli also got paid more for taking the fight with Kimbo. If Shamrock had been fighting he'd have got a six-figure sum, so they did save some money there

Kimbo was apparently given more for taking the fight at the last minute. So it's hard to know how much they saved.

dunkamania

No way Gina got paid only 25k.

Also, Seth made the following ccomment

Seth Petruzelli: My original plan was to throw a lot of push kicks, they’re called teeps…have him think that I’m going to throw ‘em to try to rush in more, and then shoot in on him, obviously…I knew I would do alright standing up with him. The promoters kinda hinted to me, and they gave me the money to stand and trade with him. They didn’t want me to take him down. Let’s just put it that way. It was worth my while to try and stand up and punch with him.

Upon being contacted by FiveOuncesOfPain.com for a followup, Petruzelli indicated that he felt his words during the 104.1 FM interview are being twisted and he categorically denied accusations that EliteXC somehow tried to influence his strategy through financial considerations.

“What was meant to be said was that I wanted to keep the fight standing for myself because I knew that was what the crowd, the promoters, and everyone wanted to see because that’s more exciting than just taking someone to the ground,” Petruzelli said. “That was my thing only. I wanted to keep it exciting so I decided to keep it standing. It had nothing to do with anybody else. That was all me.”

Upon being asked directly whether EliteXC officials had even hinted that he could receive a bonus by keeping the fight standing, Petruzelli clarified that no such act had taken place.

“No,” he responded. “Look, even the UFC gives knockout bonuses. Everyone gives knockout bonuses. There’s knockout bonuses, submission bonuses, all sorts of bonuses. I just wanted to keep it standing because I felt I could beat (Kimbo) at his own game.”

Dragan

Fozzy wrote: »

Petruzelli also got paid more for taking the fight with Kimbo. If Shamrock had been fighting he'd have got a six-figure sum, so they did save some money there

Or maybe not, a lot of fighters get paid even if they get injured before the fight. Depends on what they get in their contract and Shamrock is in the game long enough for that to be standard for him.

All this show did was cost ProElite more money.

dunkamania

I think Jared Shaw said Ken got nothing, but its hard to believe anything he says.

Jared Shaws reaction was almost as funny as Seth derailing the Kimbo train!