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2nd McCain-Obama Debate 7 October

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  • Registered Users Posts: 4,031 ✭✭✭FrankGrimes


    I'm planning on watching this when I get home tonight but read through this thread and there's some interesting comments. If even a Fox analyst was giving it to Obama, things mustn't have gone too well for McCain, but as has been said, even a tie wasn't enough for McCain.

    Somebody said it would need a miracle for McCain to turn this around....well, a miracle or a shameless and disgraceful smear campaign that I'm sure they're planning for the last week of the campaign so that by the time it's pulled to shreds and shown up as lies the damage will have been done and the simple folk (i.e. the people that will listen to a sensationalist headline on Fox and not bother finding any more about it and just take it as heard) they are targetting will have made up their mind.

    Not shaking your opponent's hand is a very poor reflection on you no matter what the circumstances, wouldn't say that went down too well.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,475 ✭✭✭Lil' Smiler


    Trojan wrote: »

    At what point does McCain start winking?

    Is that not what his extreme blinking is!?! Seriously..how much does he blink?


    Anyone have a link to the full debate - managed to fall asleep with the last 30 mins to go - which sounds very interesting. I've checked CSPAN on youtube but video doesn't seem to be up there..maybe in a few hours? http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=2B64CCD2E3AD526E&page=4

    Ahh.... i see they have it in separate vids


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 29,476 ✭✭✭✭Our man in Havana


    I wonder if the question posers/audience were hand picked by both sides?


  • Registered Users Posts: 650 ✭✭✭spiderdan


    I do believe the audience questions from the floor were hand picked from each side.

    I think Obama walked it, McCain made two critical mistakes when he called him "that one" what the fook was he thinking!! made him look so condescending/ arrogant, and again not shaking his hand at the end- Id say the Obama camp were licking their lips when it happened, McCain was rightly picked up on it by observers and the audience. He really looks like a desperate man at this stage. May have been a subconscious action, but a bad mistake to make!!

    Obama will stroll it now, Palin looks like another big mistake with her terrorist statements etc


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭yaynay


    Here's the complete debate:

    http://www.youdecide2008.com/2008/10/08/video-presidential-town-hall-debate-from-belmont-university-october-7-2008-obama-mccain-second-debate/

    I've been watching it for about 13mins now and the only snipes so far have come from the Obama side. McCain looks a bit uncomfortable, but he's answering the questions so far with answers that'll hit home with the average American.

    EDIT: Oh and McCain shook Obama's hand at the begining of the debate in this link.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    give me an exmaple of obam a snipe?

    all this stuff aobut townhall format suiting oe or another and sniping etc doesn't matter. obam win but mcain kept saying obama will tax and spend tax and spend, so if you don't like that...


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭yaynay


    give me an exmaple of obam a snipe?

    all this stuff aobut townhall format suiting oe or another and sniping etc doesn't matter. obam win but mcain kept saying obama will tax and spend tax and spend, so if you don't like that...

    It was about the Fannie and Freddie issue, can't remember the exact turn of phrase and I'm going back to check it out. If you really wanted to know you would have checked it yourself, it's at about 13mins.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,721 ✭✭✭Otacon


    yaynay wrote: »
    It was about the Fannie and Freddie issue, can't remember the exact turn of phrase and I'm going back to check it out. If you really wanted to know you would have checked it yourself, it's at about 13mins.

    "Now, I've got to correct a little bit of Senator McCain's history, not surprisingly. Let's, first of all, understand that the biggest problem in this whole process was the deregulation of the financial system. Senator McCain, as recently as March, bragged about the fact that he is a deregulator. On the other hand, two years ago, I said that we've got a sub-prime lending crisis that has to be dealt with"

    Is that the section you are referring to?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭herobear


    spiderdan wrote: »
    I do believe the audience questions from the floor were hand picked from each side.


    they were chosen, by the Moderator, Tom Brokaw.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,082 ✭✭✭lostexpectation


    point out the mccain adviser is was lobbiest of those banks isn't a snipe


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  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 16,401 Mod ✭✭✭✭Manic Moran


    herobear wrote: »
    they were chosen, by the Moderator, Tom Brokaw.

    According to him, the Candidates had no advance warning. This seems to match up with the responses to some of the questions, both candidates were caught utterly off-guard by a couple of them.

    NTM


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    According to him, the Candidates had no advance warning. This seems to match up with the responses to some of the questions, both candidates were caught utterly off-guard by a couple of them.
    Indeed.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    Personally, from what i saw Obama came out on top. I found his answers to be very concise and he was able to fight his corner very well when it came to questions and arguments surrounding taxes and Pakistan.

    McCain i found a little annoying, with his constant use of ''my friends'' and ''America, we are the best in the world, we can do it! FÚCK YEAH!!''


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Personally, from what i saw Obama came out on top. I found his answers to be very concise

    Obama was in no way concise.

    He ran over time on most questions.


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 32,865 ✭✭✭✭MagicMarker


    GuanYin wrote: »
    Obama was in no way concise.

    He ran over time on most questions.
    As did McCain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 35 Lawlord007


    yaynay wrote: »

    EDIT: Oh and McCain shook Obama's hand at the begining of the debate in this link.

    Really? Are you sure it wasn't Obama who shook McCain's hand?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Well, I went to a McCain/Palin rally today. Funny, but there was exactly 21 protesters at the event. I remember when I went to see Bush back in 2004 there were hundreds of protestors. I think this is just another sign that Pennsylvania is much more in play than the polls might suggest.

    The RINO U.S. Senator Arlen Spector started the event off trying to rally the troops. What a bore this guy is, better suited speaking at wakes. Following was a polka band performing a lot of Pennsylvania themed polkas. Not the type of music to get the blood flowing, but did provide a folksy local feeling. Then a couple of local politicians taking turns speaking, right before a very long pause in the event.

    We waited and waited for almost an hour of nothing but a few songs played over the sound system. Found out afterwards the long wait was Sean Hannity’s fault. He was doing an interview with McCain and Palin at a local radio station, and it went longer than expected, which caused the campaign to be late for the rally. I’ll have to listen to part of the interview tonight on Hannity and Colmes.

    Cindy McCain started the main event off. She put a personal touch to the two candidates in her speech, commenting on a special bond with Sarah now that they have 3 sons between them in Iraq.

    Then the Palin party started. FYI, all you who think this woman is boorish, stupid or ignorant... be afraid, be very afraid. She has that Reagan type charisma. She spoke about the Presidential debate the night before (not enough time to be scripted, according to those who think the only way she can sound intelligent is when she is coached). She has the ability to go from sounding like a seasoned politician to down-home folksy at just the right times. The best part was when she commented on her take on the debate. I can’t remember all of the one part, but it went something like John McCain was running to deal with the issues at hand and for the people.. and Barack Obama was running against Bush. She comes across much better in person than on television. Standing only a few feet away, you felt you were in the presence of someone wired for greatness.

    Finally it was McCain’s turn. Not much new information than you heard at the last two debates. A little more attacks on Obama, dealing with the differences between the two, how Obama runs on an image that is directly opposite of what he has been doing for over two decades, and some of Obama's bad judgments. Personally I’m glad the McCain campaign has finally taken the gloves off. He needed to realize he is not only up against Obama and the Democrat machine, but also the juggernaut of journalistic jabberwocky that is the media when it comes to Obama.

    I had to leave half way through the McCain speech because as I noted before, it started almost an hour late. My wife and I had to leave to pick up the kids at the bus stop, and we just made it with two minutes to spare.

    Someone earlier questioned the security things I had to do. Nobody could attend the rally without providing name, home address, home phone number and an email address for security checks by the secret service. I doubt Obama needs these security checks, as I understand he doesn’t mind palling around with terrorists. ;)

    PS. In person, Sarah Palin is absolutely stunning.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    I think this is just another sign that Pennsylvania is much more in play than the polls might suggest.
    Wednesday, October 08:
    Pennsylvania Morning Call Tracking Obama 50, McCain 38 (Obama +12)

    Tuesday, October 07:
    Pennsylvania Rasmussen Obama 54, McCain 41 (Obama +13)
    Pennsylvania SurveyUSA Obama 55, McCain 40 (Obama +15)

    Wednesday, October 01:
    Pennsylvania Quinnipiac Obama 54, McCain 39 (Obama +15)
    Pennsylvania Franklin & Marshall Obama 45, McCain 38 (Obama +7)

    Monday, September 29:
    Pennsylvania FOX News/Rasmussen Obama 50, McCain 42 (Obama +8)

    Friday, September 26:
    Pennsylvania Morning Call Obama 47, McCain 43 (Obama +4)

    Thursday, September 25:
    Pennsylvania Rasmussen Obama 49, McCain 45 (Obama +4)
    Pennsylvania National Journal/FD Obama 43, McCain 41 (Obama +2)

    Just eyeballing the spread from 25 September to 8 October, it would generally appear that there has been an upward trend in favour of Obama? Granted, that there are several different polls, but if we just look at the spread of the three Rasmussen polls (below), you generally see the same upward Obama trend?
    7 October: Obama +13
    29 September: Obama +8
    25 September: Obama +4

    Caution: These polls are descriptive statistics (not inferential), therefore, you have to exercise a high level of caution when attempting to predict an outcome; i.e., description is a necessary but not sufficient condition for prediction.


  • Registered Users Posts: 825 ✭✭✭CtrlSource


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    Well, I went to a McCain/Palin rally today. Funny, but there was exactly 21 protesters at the event. I remember when I went to see Bush back in 2004 there were hundreds of protestors. I think this is just another sign that Pennsylvania is much more in play than the polls might suggest.

    The RINO U.S. Senator Arlen Spector started the event off trying to rally the troops. What a bore this guy is, better suited speaking at wakes. Following was a polka band performing a lot of Pennsylvania themed polkas. Not the type of music to get the blood flowing, but did provide a folksy local feeling. Then a couple of local politicians taking turns speaking, right before a very long pause in the event.

    We waited and waited for almost an hour of nothing but a few songs played over the sound system. Found out afterwards the long wait was Sean Hannity’s fault. He was doing an interview with McCain and Palin at a local radio station, and it went longer than expected, which caused the campaign to be late for the rally. I’ll have to listen to part of the interview tonight on Hannity and Colmes.

    Cindy McCain started the main event off. She put a personal touch to the two candidates in her speech, commenting on a special bond with Sarah now that they have 3 sons between them in Iraq.

    Then the Palin party started. FYI, all you who think this woman is boorish, stupid or ignorant... be afraid, be very afraid. She has that Reagan type charisma. She spoke about the Presidential debate the night before (not enough time to be scripted, according to those who think the only way she can sound intelligent is when she is coached). She has the ability to go from sounding like a seasoned politician to down-home folksy at just the right times. The best part was when she commented on her take on the debate. I can’t remember all of the one part, but it went something like John McCain was running to deal with the issues at hand and for the people.. and Barack Obama was running against Bush. She comes across much better in person than on television. Standing only a few feet away, you felt you were in the presence of someone wired for greatness.

    Finally it was McCain’s turn. Not much new information than you heard at the last two debates. A little more attacks on Obama, dealing with the differences between the two, how Obama runs on an image that is directly opposite of what he has been doing for over two decades, and some of Obama's bad judgments. Personally I’m glad the McCain campaign has finally taken the gloves off. He needed to realize he is not only up against Obama and the Democrat machine, but also the juggernaut of journalistic jabberwocky that is the media when it comes to Obama.

    I had to leave half way through the McCain speech because as I noted before, it started almost an hour late. My wife and I had to leave to pick up the kids at the bus stop, and we just made it with two minutes to spare.

    Someone earlier questioned the security things I had to do. Nobody could attend the rally without providing name, home address, home phone number and an email address for security checks by the secret service. I doubt Obama needs these security checks, as I understand he doesn’t mind palling around with terrorists. ;)

    PS. In person, Sarah Palin is absolutely stunning.


    Interesting to read your description of the rally. We're all so used to just seeing snippets of these events on the tv :)

    The way these candidates and the campaign teams behind them keep going is just amazing. When do they ever get time to properly rest?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    Gallup has given Obama an 11+ lead after the debate, from +9 yesterday.

    Depending on whether the polls will reflect the voting (serious doubts about that), it is Obama's to lose.

    However, interestingly, the automated voice polling systems give Obama a much more slender lead than the human polling calls. Are people less likely to admit doubts over race to a person?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 2,684 ✭✭✭FatherTed


    Joe, did McCain really say "My fellow prisoners"?


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,015 ✭✭✭Ludo


    Just remember, at this point in the campaign 8 years ago, Gore had a 12 point lead over Bush...and look what happened there!


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    FatherTed wrote: »
    Joe, did McCain really say "My fellow prisoners"?
    Just saw this on Jay Leno! Was it real?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    FatherTed wrote: »
    Joe, did McCain really say "My fellow prisoners"?

    Ted, I don’t recall that. As I noted I only got to see the first part of McCain’s speech. One thing I have found going to these rallies is, if you want to listen to a speech - watch it on television. Going to a presidential rally is more about being part of the event, the excitement, and participating in history. It’s hard to concentrate on the speech at times with all the roars of the crowds, the spontaneous yells of individuals around you, the distraction of the media huddled to the left and in back of you, wondering who are the secret service amongst you, and a wife who hands you the camera telling you to take the pictures because SHE wants to listen to the speeches. I found myself asking my wife on numerous occasions, “what did they say” after a round of applause.

    If McCain did say it while I was there, it glossed over me. And if he said it while referencing the economic bailout, he would have got cheers from me - gaffe or not. That’s exactly how I feel in this mess - a prisoner.

    Honestly, I can’t believe they don’t make more gaffes with a routine of traveling town to town every day, sleeping in strange beds, and eating strange foods. All while listening to advisers and keeping up with the daily events that face our nation and the world. (Well that is except for Joe Biden, who makes gaffes a regular normal almost daily occurrence whether on the trail or not.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    Someone earlier questioned the security things I had to do. Nobody could attend the rally without providing name, home address, home phone number and an email address for security checks by the secret service. I doubt Obama needs these security checks, as I understand he doesn’t mind palling around with terrorists. ;)

    PS. In person, Sarah Palin is absolutely stunning.

    Looks and a $ will get you a cup of coffee.

    You have to fill out the same details to see Obama afaik (Secret Service control security). Your smarty comment is the reason I don't like McCain.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 182 ✭✭yaynay


    Lawlord007 wrote: »
    Really? Are you sure it wasn't Obama who shook McCain's hand?

    Ok well they shook each others hand. :rolleyes:


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Just eyeballing the spread from 25 September to 8 October, it would generally appear that there has been an upward trend in favour of Obama? Granted, that there are several different polls, but if we just look at the spread of the three Rasmussen polls (below), you generally see the same upward Obama trend?
    7 October: Obama +13
    29 September: Obama +8
    25 September: Obama +4

    Caution: These polls are descriptive statistics (not inferential), therefore, you have to exercise a high level of caution when attempting to predict an outcome; i.e., description is a necessary but not sufficient condition for prediction.


    BL... The Morning Call is my local newspaper. It’s a bit biased towards Democrats. I cancelled my subscription (except for Sunday’s edition due to the retail flyers and coupons) during the 2004 election due to the political bias. But I admit I do read it online to get the local news only. The paper calls numerous times for these polls. I, like many of my Republican friends, refuse to take part in their polls, so I think their polls are highly skewed to a Democrat and Independent population.

    Also, several polls done by phone start off with the question of what party you belong to? Without knowing who really is taking the polls, I know some Democrat friends will be reluctant to state they will not vote for Obama after identifying themselves as a Dem. Granted Pennsylvania votes historically Democrat, primarily because of Philadelphia and Pittsburgh (who’s high population control how the state goes), I bet once the actual votes come in, you will find that even if McCain loses the state, it will be by a much smaller margin than the polls indicate.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 795 ✭✭✭Pocono Joe


    Hobbes wrote: »
    You have to fill out the same details to see Obama afaik (Secret Service control security). Your smarty comment is the reason I don't like McCain.

    Oh come on Hobbes... you’re no stranger to “smarty comments.” (and you did notice the ;) after the comment, right?)

    On a more serious note about the Ayers thing, I just heard yesterday during an interview by a top government official, that Obama would not be granted a top level security clearance because of his past relationship with Ayers. Yet he's allowed to run for commander-in-chief. Just another ironic twist in this most interesting election.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 47,258 CMod ✭✭✭✭Black Swan


    Pocono Joe wrote: »
    BL... The Morning Call is my local newspaper. It’s a bit biased towards Democrats.
    That may be the case, but one of the other middle-dated polls in the distribution cited was Fox News/Rasmussen giving Obama +8 lead, and most would contend that Fox News is biased towards the Republicans?

    Further, Morning call was only one of the 6 polls cited: Morning Call, Rasmussen, Survey USA, Quinnipiac, Franklin & Marshall, and National Journal.

    But the major point I was making by citing these Pennsylvania polls was the apparent upward trend from 25 September to 8 October, going from single digit leads to double digit leads for Obama in the spread.

    I also cited cautions regarding polls being descriptive statistics and not inferential, descriptive being a necessary but insufficient condition for prediction, so you may still be right in terms of the outcome, but for a different reason.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,264 ✭✭✭✭Hobbes


    FatherTed wrote: »
    Joe, did McCain really say "My fellow prisoners"?

    Yes, yes he did.

    http://rawstory.com/news/2008/McCain_flub_My_fellow_prisoners_1008.html


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