40K people, including nationalized immigrants and non-resident aliens on the dole

TheDude2008

And 112,00 immigrants have arrived so far this year acording to the cso website. HELLO we are in recession and we take in 112,00 immigrants so far this year when irish people are being layed off in there tens of thousands, there is massive anger out there massive im hearing it every day, we must be the softest touch of a nation on earth.

mike65

Where is the sauce for 50k on the dole?

Mike

Red Hand

You sure about those figures? And by dole, do you mean the social insurance stamps that people work up if they have a PRSI number?

TheDude2008

Here is the link mike 41,214
http://www.cso.ie/releasespublications/documents/labour_market/current/lregeo.pdf

mike65

Cheers, so its 40 thousand not 50 and that would include people like me (I have lived here since childhood but I'm still a "non-national").

The Live Register is not designed to measure unemployment. It includes
part-time workers (those who work up to three days a week), seasonal and casual
workers entitled to Jobseekers Benefit or Allowance. Unemployment is measured
by the Quarterly National Household Survey and the latest figure, for March to
May 2008, is 115,500 persons unemployed.

Mike

TheDude2008

And here is the link for the amount of immigrants that have applied for pps numbers so far this year 112,000, we got 4,259 people from brazil i mean how are is that number been left in when thousands of irish people been layed off, this is unsustainable.http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsn_all_month08.html

TheDude2008

Mike i have no problem with non nationals just that we can not have such crazy immigration levels in this country we can not sustain it and now we are in recession, i beleive anyone who has arrived here since 2004 should by all means be given the dole but only for a maximuim of 6 months, the dole in this country is like a months wages in theres so of course a lot of them are going to stay on dole here instead of going home.

Mr.Micro

We are in the EU so any person who comes to work here is entitled to benefits and rightly so IMO. The naivete of people in thinking just because we have a recession that all these non national people should just up and leave, to go where and leave what they may have achieved here. These people are here because they want to be and are entitled to be here and are welcome as far as I am concerned. Its the Government,the banks and international economics that have caused the recession and if the Government can/have given a blank guarantee to the banks for 400 billion Euro then the dole is chicken feed. I abhor people whipping up this anti non national hysteria.

JWAD

TheDude2008 wrote: »

And 112,00 immigrants have arrived so far this year acording to the cso website. HELLO we are in recession and we take in 112,00 immigrants so far this year when irish people are being layed off in there tens of thousands, there is massive anger out there massive im hearing it every day, we must be the softest touch of a nation on earth.

The percentage increase of nationals signing-on is greater than that of the non-nationals.
It also includes the amount of employees in work transit ie. 'between jobs'.
Immigration overall to Ireland has decreased.

There will always be mobility of labour and there will always be immigration linked to states of economy. This country alone is testament to this in migration to and from. It still seems people want as much as possible for nothing from the EU and whinge when the country has to contribute. Everything for nothing. An hypocritical trait of the Nouveaux Riches Irish since the 90s.

I've read articles from certain press pundits criticising immigration here yet lauding, for example, any moves towards increasing residency possibilities for illegal Irish immigrants in the States.

A country which has provided a huge chunk of the western world's migrant population kicking and screaming about immigration is ironic, dontchya think?

mikemac

Mr.Micro wrote: »

Government can/have given a blank guarantee to the banks for 40 billion Euro then the dole is chicken feed.

I read it was 400 billion
Wow, a massive difference between 40 and 400, maybe the media are giving inaccurate figures

lostexpectation

we've only been in recession two weeks ya know

lostexpectation

TheDude2008 wrote: »

Mike i have no problem with non nationals just that we can not have such crazy immigration levels in this country we can not sustain it and now we are in recession, i beleive anyone who has arrived here since 2004 should by all means be given the dole but only for a maximuim of 6 months, the dole in this country is like a months wages in theres so of course a lot of them are going to stay on dole here instead of going home.

maybe they lost their jobs unexpectedly


you are going to get boring very quickly

Tipsy Mac

TheDude2008 wrote: »

and we take in 112,00 immigrants so far this year

There's no option to not "take in" we are in the EU, we have no choice to refuse other EU citizens coming here. Ireland has one of the best doles in Europe, I would actually think that more and more unemployed people will come here as the doles alot better than most countries.

JWAD

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

Ireland has one of the best doles in Europe

The Social Security system here is one of the worst around. Compare to France, Germany, Sweden, Netherlands, for example, and you'll find your claim is quite easy to disprove.

jmayo

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

There's no option to not "take in" we are in the EU, we have no choice to refuse other EU citizens coming here. Ireland has one of the best doles in Europe, I would actually think that more and more unemployed people will come here as the doles alot better than most countries.

I seem to remember the Brits saying something similar about the Irish way back.
But I suppose that was different.
You know what the real kicker in all this is the "massive" amount of people usually doing the complaining are the f-ers that complained that non-nationals were coming here taking their jobs, these would be the same people that just about manage to get between the dole office, the bookies, the post office and the pub :rolleyes:
Has anybody cared to notice why we had such an influx of immigrants in the first place ? It was becuase some of us Irish couldn't be ar*ed working, particularly in low paid menial jobs. Not all migrants worked in hi tech industry or as tradespeople. A lot of them worked in shops, bars, restaurants, cleaning etc.

Mr.Micro

A country which has provided a huge chunk of the western world's migrant population kicking and screaming about immigration is ironic, dontchya think?

I agree JWAD its downright hypocrisy to say the least. Us Irish have emigrated all over the world one would think that we would have a modicum of understanding and empathy with our non national population, alas not so with some people.

djpbarry

TheDude2008 wrote: »

Mike i have no problem with non nationals...

The fact that you felt the need to start this thread suggests otherwise.

TheDude2008 wrote: »

...just that we can not have such crazy immigration levels in this country we can not sustain it...

By definition, something that is unsustainable will not sustain itself, which is probably why net emigration has been forecast for next year. But hey, let's not let facts get in the way of a good old-fashioned xenophobic rant, eh?

Tipsy Mac wrote: »

...I would actually think that more and more unemployed people will come here as the doles alot better than most countries.

Ireland has a better welfare system than "most countries"? Most EU countries? I doubt it. Besides, nobody can claim social welfare in this country without making a minimum number of PRSI contributions.

Guy:Incognito

JWAD wrote: »

A country which has provided a huge chunk of the western world's migrant population kicking and screaming about immigration is ironic, dontchya think?

Nope. What Irish people do abroad is the problem of the country they do it in until such time as they are sent back.

What Irish and foreign people do in Ireland is a separate issue and one for Ireland to deal with.

citizen zero

This is laughable. As has been said by a few people earlier, we are in the EU which is where the vast majority of immigrants come from. Now we are in an economic downturn and people are losing their jobs I think it's only reasonable to assume that quite a few people signing on and claiming what they are entitled to will be born outside Ireland. We were happy enough to take their contributions to the system though!

vincenzo1975

How many jobs are provided in this country by 'non national' companies?

Maybe if the 'non national' companies gave the jobs to the 'non national' people, in their home countries, then things would even out.

No wait, something wrong with that suggestion:rolleyes:

amacachi

djpbarry wrote:

Besides, nobody can claim social welfare in this country without making a minimum number of PRSI contributions.

Sure about that?

JWAD

Stekelly wrote: »

Nope. What Irish people do abroad is the problem of the country they do it in until such time as they are sent back.

What Irish and foreign people do in Ireland is a separate issue and one for Ireland to deal with.

If there is no social benefits system for those who come to settle here while they seek work then there is a problem that can augment.

Here's some news for you: Not all those signing on the live register WANT to work. There is a large proportion on the live register who actually ARE working but taking the system for all its worth while earning a 'black' wage. Is this exclusive to non-nationals? If you think it is then I give up......................:rolleyes:
I know musicians who work, gain stipends and even run bloody market stalls.

Sort out leeches sucking on the social welfare system wherever they're from.

And yes it is ironic that an Irish person moans on this subject. Apart from the figures being inflated and cherry picked in the beginning of the thread, it usually boils down to convenient ignorance.

I'd wager that a large percentage of those who moan and wail about Johnny Foreigner have all worked abroad at some stage of their life or have someone close in their family who has done so.

gandalf

Its people of this character we need to be expunging from our dole queues and maybe even our society.

dante18

TheDude2008 wrote: »

And 112,00 immigrants have arrived so far this year acording to the cso website. HELLO we are in recession and we take in 112,00 immigrants so far this year when irish people are being layed off in there tens of thousands, there is massive anger out there massive im hearing it every day, we must be the softest touch of a nation on earth.

I agree, immigration has gotten completely out of control and something needs to be done to bring it under control. The simple fact is that we don't have enough new jobs being created in this country to justify this level of immigration. If it wasn't for all the hysterical "anyone-who-wants-to-see-less-immigration-hates-foreigners" BS from well-meaning but deluded liberals, the government would have faced up to this long ago and would have done something about it. The decision to guarantee the banks just shows the government is prepared to make decisions that are unpopular with the EU so why can't they do something about immigration.

The company I'm working for is going through a tough time now and there have been rumours of layoffs. It's possible I'll be on the dole in a few weeks from now and I hate to think of my chances of getting back into employment with all the people in this country chasing the same jobs I'll be chasing.

sovtek

JWAD wrote: »

The percentage increase of nationals signing-on is greater than that of the non-nationals.
It also includes the amount of employees in work transit ie. 'between jobs'.
Immigration overall to Ireland has decreased.

There will always be mobility of labour and there will always be immigration linked to states of economy. This country alone is testament to this in migration to and from. It still seems people want as much as possible for nothing from the EU and whinge when the country has to contribute. Everything for nothing. An hypocritical trait of the Nouveaux Riches Irish since the 90s.

I've read articles from certain press pundits criticising immigration here yet lauding, for example, any moves towards increasing residency possibilities for illegal Irish immigrants in the States.

Could not have said it better.

A country which has provided a huge chunk of the western world's migrant population kicking and screaming about immigration is ironic, dontchya think?[/QUOTE]

sovtek

djpbarry wrote: »

Ireland has a better welfare system than "most countries"? Most EU countries? I doubt it. Besides, nobody can claim social welfare in this country without making a minimum number of PRSI contributions.

...and many non-eu nationals that are awaiting LTR or citizenship (about 17,000 the last time I checked) will avoid the dole as it will be used against you in your application (as **** as that is).

sovtek

Stekelly wrote: »

Nope. What Irish people do abroad is the problem of the country they do it in until such time as they are sent back.

What Irish and foreign people do in Ireland is a separate issue and one for Ireland to deal with.

Then tell your government to stay out of the affairs of US immigration and quit lobbying the US government to give illegal Irish people in America special status.

gandalf

dante18 wrote: »

I agree, immigration has gotten completely out of control and something needs to be done to bring it under control.

What close our borders to other EU citizens, as they are making up the majority of the people who are in or coming to our country. Don't forget alot of Irish have made their fortune in other EU countries as well.

The simple fact is that we don't have enough new jobs being created in this country to justify this level of immigration.

So I am imagining all the shops around Dublin who have signs up looking for employees then? The jobs are there they just mightened be in the exact areas people are looking for them in but there are jobs out there.

If it wasn't for all the hysterical "anyone-who-wants-to-see-less-immigration-hates-foreigners" BS from well-meaning but deluded liberals, the government would have faced up to this long ago and would have done something about it.

Ah its the standard label throwing now.

The decision to guarantee the banks just shows the government is prepared to make decisions that are unpopular with the EU so why can't they do something about immigration.

What exactly do you propose they do about immigration then? Come on give us some realistic alternatives that differ from the "They took our jobs" drivel you have excreted onto the forum?

The company I'm working for is going through a tough time now and there have been rumours of layoffs. It's possible I'll be on the dole in a few weeks from now and I hate to think of my chances of getting back into employment with all the people in this country chasing the same jobs I'll be chasing.

Yes every company is going through problems its called a recession, we've had redundancies here as well. I went through the early 90's and was unemployed for a while but we didn't have the crutch that "They took our jobs" to blame our problems on. I kept applying and took whatever job I could to pay my bills. (I only threw out a massive file of PFO letters that I had from that time when I moved last year).

Oh and things are going to get a lot worse than they are now, take it from someone who went through the last downturn in this country.

sovtek

dante18 wrote: »

The company I'm working for is going through a tough time now and there have been rumours of layoffs. It's possible I'll be on the dole in a few weeks from now and I hate to think of my chances of getting back into employment with all the people in this country chasing the same jobs I'll be chasing.

Dont worry all your mates will be heading off to Australia to get work so you probably won't have to worry about it. In the meantime all us foreignors who have lived here for years will probably overtake the "irish" population and breed you out of your own country. Mwah ha ha ha

dante18

gandalf wrote:

What close our borders to other EU citizens

Yes, I think it's time for us to at least temporarily restrict access to people from the Eastern European countries, at least until we've gotten through the worst of the recession. They might not be happy about it in Europe but I'm sure alot of people will understand why we need to make this decision.

gandalf wrote:

So I am imagining all the shops around Dublin who have signs up looking for employees then? The jobs are there

They are there but it would help us if those jobs went to people already on the dole, rather than to new people entering the country. The fewer people there are on the dole, the less money we'll have to spend supporting them.

gandalf wrote:

What exactly do you propose they do about immigration then?

Nothing more than what other European countries are doing. Temporarily restrict access to the Eastern European countries and take a much tougher line on illegal immigration. I think it might be worth reconsidering Leo Veradcar's proposal as well to pay immigrants on the dole to return home.

gandalf wrote:

Come on give us some realistic alternatives that differ from the "They took our jobs" drivel you have excreted onto the forum?

The ones I've listed above.

gandalf wrote:

Yes every company is going through problems its called a recession, we've had redundancies here as well. I went through the early 90's and was unemployed for a while but we didn't have the crutch that "They took our jobs" to blame our problems on.

Nobody is saying that the immigrants are to blame for the recession or that things wouldn't be bad even if we didn't have as many people in the country. The point people are making is that in a time of recession and job shortage, it doesn't make sense for us to continue to allow tens of thousands of people a year to enter our country and to take jobs that should be going to unemployed people in this country. You can use the standard "Takin our jobs" to try to brush that aside as typical ignorant bigotry but there does come a point where these things stop sounding funny and where the reality is painfully close to the caricature.

oscarBravo

dante18 wrote: »

The point people are making is that in a time of recession and job shortage, it doesn't make sense for us to continue to allow tens of thousands of people a year to enter our country and to take jobs that should be going to unemployed people in this country.

Why should they?