40K people, including nationalized immigrants and non-resident aliens on the dole

JWAD

sovtek wrote: »

I'm confused as to what you mean by "legitimate" nationals.

Law-abiding, tax-paying people regardless of where they come from or passport they hold.

mountainyman

To get the dole you need 2 years PRSI. I think that unrestricted immigration was MAAAAADNESSSSSSS but what's done is done.

You can't come over from Lithuania and sign on. 'they' don't let you.

Are you a teenage Lithuanian GIRL who is broke and homeless in Dublin PM me.

Bez Kompleksii

djpbarry

mountainyman wrote: »

I think that unrestricted immigration was MAAAAADNESSSSSSS but what's done is done.

We've never had unrestricted immigration.

dante18

JWAD wrote:

And by the way, countries such as France, Germany, Italy, Sweden, and even an EEA country like Norway do not have a lower rate of immigration than Ireland.

Do you have a source for that? I thought Ireland had the second highest per capita immigration in Europe after Spain.

While you're at it, can you give me the source for your claim that the number of non-nationals on the live register is decreasing.

rasper

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1009/1223445618118.html

in a case like this , what is the situation after the sentence , does it mean deportation or does it even have any consequences outside of the jail term, for a healthy non racist society I believe that the culprits should be deported as an example to all. I imagine it would as in any other country but does anyone really know this for a fact

JWAD

dante18 wrote: »

Do you have a source for that? I thought Ireland had the second highest per capita immigration in Europe after Spain

A list of world countries was printed in a print edition of The Economist last month. I remember it because I was in Dublin airport and had been lectured by an archetypal cabbie about immigrants even though the girl beside me was bloody Norwegian.
The figures you're quoting (I presume) are from 3 yrs ago and have been bandied about by the anti-immigration platform.
So what if somebody is from somewhere else? To justify your not wanting them here, you'd have to require that all 'nationals' (pure-bred I also presume) should return because you wouldn't Irish people to be taking up foreign jobs now, would you?

dante18 wrote: »

While you're at it, can you give me the source for your claim that the number of non-nationals on the live register is decreasing.

I have already done so and so has one other poster. The link found in this thread leads to the CSO website (original 'proof' in this thread).

Competition for jobs should be fair game for anybody qualified regardless of where they come from. Get those who simply refuse to work to get off their asses and find employment plus pinpoint those who abuse the system.

sovtek

JWAD wrote: »

Law-abiding, tax-paying people regardless of where they come from or passport they hold.

Ah ok...gotcha

sovtek

mountainyman wrote: »

I think that unrestricted immigration was MAAAAADNESSSSSSS but what's done is done.

How many times must it be repeated?

getz

its so strange to find this anti/immigrant thing in ireland--because over the years ireland has been the country that people left to go and live in other lands-to improve there lives -- ,but i fully agree with most -as long as they come to work and intergrate-don;t end up like the uk-i now feel like a stranger in my own country

djpbarry

getz wrote: »

its so strange to find this anti/immigrant thing in ireland
...
as long as they come to work and intergrate-don;t end up like the uk-i now feel like a stranger in my own country

So it's ok to be anti-immigration in the UK, but not in Ireland?

sovtek

getz wrote: »

-as long as they come to work and intergrate-don;t end up like the uk-i now feel like a stranger in my own country

Actually almost all immigrants have to work. Otherwise they dont get to stay.

I've no problem with people from other EU countries coming here to work if they have work.

If they are here for more than a few months with no work and drawing the dole,they should go home.

sovtek

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no problem with people from other EU countries coming here to work if they have work.

If they are here for more than a few months with no work and drawing the dole,they should go home.

That attitude is pretty rich considering how many billions the EU has given ye.

getz

where abouts in ireland is jeperdy?-- in the uk newspapers it says ::in ireland there is lots of jobs in jeperdy:

Drexl Spivey

getz wrote: »

as long as they come to work and intergrate-

Did you think immigrants came to get the dole? How can you live on the dole? it is about 140 e / week isn't it? .. That's what teenagers spend on a friday night in this country.

gandalf

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no problem with people from other EU countries coming here to work if they have work.

If they are here for more than a few months with no work and drawing the dole,they should go home.

Ah but if they don't work 2 years here then they don't get the dole do they

Jeff Bond

Jeff Bond wrote: »

Did you think immigrants came to get the dole? How can you live on the dole? it is about 140 e / week isn't it? .. That's what teenagers spend on a friday night in this country.

nearly 200euro per week according to this

http://www.citizensinformation.ie/categories/social-welfare/social-welfare-payments/unemployed-people/unemployment_benefit#rates

not to mention rent allowance

http://www.welfare.ie/foi/rentall.html

JWAD

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no problem with people from other EU countries coming here to work if they have work

How nice.
So no Canadians, Norwegians, Aussies, Kiwis, Americans? What about English-speaking Africans? English-speaking Asians?

Alun

Deleted User wrote: »

I've no problem with people from other EU countries coming here to work if they have work.

If they are here for more than a few months with no work and drawing the dole,they should go home.

:D:D

So, someone like me, originally from the UK, who hasn't lived there for over 28 years, and who has lived, worked, paid taxes and social security in 3 different EU countries including this one for 7 years, should go "home", wherever the hell that is, to claim the dole? You're having a laugh (I hope).

You should get out more, and see that there's a world outside of that little isolated bubble you live in.

getz

are you talking about immigrants-who come to live in ireland and integrate[learn language and customs?]or those who expect the country and its people adapt to something which you may find upsets you===?

sovtek

getz wrote: »

are you talking about immigrants-who come to live in ireland and integrate[learn language and customs?]or those who expect the country and its people adapt to something which you may find upsets you===?

How much immigrants "integrate" depends a lot on how they are treated by their host country. I have every respect for the fact that I am not from Ireland, however, that does not mean I will put up with everything the government or it's people dish out.
I pay taxes here and have for almost a decade...yet I still cannot hope to have citizenship or Residency for 2-3 years. That fact alone makes it hard for anyone to "integrate". It shows complete contempt for foreignors! Therefore I will bitch all I want about things here and reserve the right to.

Mr.Micro

sovtek wrote: »

How much immigrants "integrate" depends a lot on how they are treated by their host country. I have every respect for the fact that I am not from Ireland, however, that does not mean I will put up with everything the government or it's people dish out.
I pay taxes here and have for almost a decade...yet I still cannot hope to have citizenship or Residency for 2-3 years. That fact alone makes it hard for anyone to "integrate". It shows complete contempt for foreignors! Therefore I will bitch all I want about things here and reserve the right to.

Absolutely right if things are not right people have the right to complain no matter who they are. Change only comes about through protest of one form or another, (its actually revolution but thats far too strong a word here). The mindset of many in Ireland has to change deal wiith the new Ireland that will be multicultural and diverse. Its all for the better IMO as it will help Ireland to only get better and make us a more tolerant open society, maybe.

sovtek

sovtek wrote: »

How much immigrants "integrate" depends a lot on how they are treated by their host country. I have every respect for the fact that I am not from Ireland, however, that does not mean I will put up with everything the government or it's people dish out.
I pay taxes here and have for almost a decade...yet I still cannot hope to have citizenship or Residency for 2-3 years. That fact alone makes it hard for anyone to "integrate". It shows complete contempt for foreignors! Therefore I will bitch all I want about things here and reserve the right to.

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Whinging+Pom

JWAD

getz wrote: »

are you talking about immigrants-who come to live in ireland and integrate[learn language and customs?]or those who expect the country and its people adapt to something which you may find upsets you===?

Exactly what customs are you referring to?
And who are 'those' who expect everyone here to "adapt to something which may upset"?

Victor

TheDude2008 wrote: »

And here is the link for the amount of immigrants that have applied for pps numbers so far this year 112,000, we got 4,259 people from brazil i mean how are is that number been left in when thousands of irish people been layed off, this is unsustainable.http://www.welfare.ie/topics/ppsn/ppsn_all_month08.html

But you are only looking at one side of the picture - how many people left in that period? Most Brazilians are here either as language students or working in spcific industries like the meat industry.

GuanYin

Jeff Bond wrote: »

Sorry if I go off topic but:

In future try AH with these type of rants.

On topic. -

Alun

Alun wrote: »

:D:D

So, someone like me, originally from the UK, who hasn't lived there for over 28 years, and who has lived, worked, paid taxes and social security in 3 different EU countries including this one for 7 years, should go "home", wherever the hell that is, to claim the dole? You're having a laugh (I hope).

You should get out more, and see that there's a world outside of that little isolated bubble you live in.

I'll be more specefic.. I was referring to the Eastern European economic migrants/dole bludgers that are content to draw their dole here and live on lidll shopping/rent allowances/childrens allowances and who won't bother to work here anymore because lifes too good on their bums doing nothing compared to home..

dante18

Deleted User wrote:

I'll be more specefic.. I was referring to the Eastern European economic migrants/dole bludgers that are content to draw their dole here and live on lidll shopping/rent allowances/childrens allowances and who won't bother to work here anymore because lifes too good on their bums doing nothing compared to home..

Are you saying that some Eastern Europeans are not as hard-working as we've been led to believe and that some of them might even be as lazy as Irish people? That's blasphemy!

JWAD wrote:

A list of world countries was printed in a print edition of The Economist last month.

And that article in The Economist showed that most other western European countries had a higher per capita rate of immigration than Ireland? I'd be interested in seeing that list. I had a look at the economist website but I couldn't find anything showing a comparison of different countries level of immigration. If you're referring to this then that's a comparison of foreign born population in four different European countries. Looking at that graph though you'll that Ireland and Spain have seen the highest increase during the ten years from 1997. If you look at the line for Ireland you'll the see tail-end of it shoots up a steep incline. That's because of EU enlargement in 2005.

JWAD wrote:

So what if somebody is from somewhere else?

If people were just here to work for a few years and then returned home it wouldn't matter. If large numbers of people end up staying here permanently then we'll need to integrate those people into our population. That's where I see the problems arising.

JWAD wrote:

To justify your not wanting them here, you'd have to require that all 'nationals' (pure-bred I also presume) should return because you wouldn't Irish people to be taking up foreign jobs now, would you?

I didn't say anything about requiring them to return home. I think the focus should be on reducing the number of people coming into the country. If we did that it would ease the competition for the available jobs and it would make it easier for people on the dole to get back into employment. It would help the economy in a time of recession and it also would help ease the pressure on schools and hospitals.

dante18

dante18 wrote: »

Are you saying that some Eastern Europeans are not as hard-working as we've been led to believe and that some of them might even be as lazy as Irish people?

Some? Yes.

That's blasphemy!

No just personal experience.

JWAD

dante18 wrote: »

And that article in The Economist showed that most other western European countries had a higher per capita rate of immigration than Ireland? I'd be interested in seeing that list. I had a look at the economist website but I couldn't find anything showing a comparison of different countries level of immigration. If you're referring to this then that's a comparison of foreign born population in four different European countries. Looking at that graph though you'll that Ireland and Spain have seen the highest increase during the ten years from 1997. If you look at the line for Ireland you'll the see tail-end of it shoots up a steep incline. That's because of EU enlargement in 2005

No it wasn't that article. It was in another edition. If I remember rightly whatever the latest edition on the 10th September was.
And since you bring up 2005, this is the year that the anti-foreigner platform uses stats from in order to scare everyone into thinking that there is a catastrophe on board.

dante18 wrote: »

If people were just here to work for a few years and then returned home it wouldn't matter. If large numbers of people end up staying here permanently then we'll need to integrate those people into our population. That's where I see the problems arising

So what if people stay here permanently?

dante18 wrote: »

I didn't say anything about requiring them to return home. I think the focus should be on reducing the number of people coming into the country. If we did that it would ease the competition for the available jobs and it would make it easier for people on the dole to get back into employment. It would help the economy in a time of recession and it also would help ease the pressure on schools and hospitals.

If you want foreigners out then reciprocate in a non-hypocritical fashion. Why should other countries have to take your nationals then? Send 'em all home and bring all your own back. After that happens, give us some employment figures.