James McCarthy

estebancambias

ye wtf is up with this match? it looks weird...the players look gigantic.

Mr.Nice Guy

I was worried I had my contact lens in backwards watching the Hamilton/Rangers game.

It's not too surprising McCarthy getting booed by Rangers fans. John O'Shea got abuse a few years back when United played at Ibrox in the Champions League. I think everyone knows there's an anti-Irish element within the Rangers support.

On the McCarthy debate, considering the SFA this week gave their approval for Nacho Novo turning out for the Scots I no longer wish to hear any Scots whinging about McGeady or McCarthy. At least they have Irish roots.

anonymous_joe

In defence of Rangers (oh God that feels dirty) actually not really in their defence (yay! I'm not going to Hell. :P) I was at the game against Denmark (God knows how long ago) when the Oirish fans started booing Lovenkrands, and even booed Peter Madsen because they mistook him for Lovenkrands.

bobbysands81

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In defence of Rangers (oh God that feels dirty) actually not really in their defence (yay! I'm not going to Hell. :P) I was at the game against Denmark (God knows how long ago) when the Oirish fans started booing Lovenkrands, and even booed Peter Madsen because they mistook him for Lovenkrands.

What point are you trying to make?

Is it that Irish fans are racist against Danes?

Was Lovenkrands/Madsen booed because of their nationality or religion... or was it just because of rivalry? ...and then you might explain what your story has to do with James McCarthy.

Eirebear

Why cant people see that McCarthy's decision to play for Ireland might annoy a few folk?

If an Irish player, playing in Ireland chose to declare for scotland, im pretty sure he might get abuse at LOI grounds.

And let me assure you, McCarthy will get abuse at every ground except Parkhead.

bobbysands81

Eirebear wrote: »

Why cant people see that McCarthy's decision to play for Ireland might annoy a few folk?

If an Irish player, playing in Ireland chose to declare for scotland, im pretty sure he might get abuse at LOI grounds.

And let me assure you, McCarthy will get abuse at every ground except Parkhead.

What abuse has Burton O'Brien or your ex-player McLean received?

Eirebear

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What abuse has Burton O'Brien or your ex-player McLean received?

Neither of them would come anywhere near the Scottish team though, theres the difference.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What point are you trying to make?

Is it that Irish fans are racist against Danes?

Was Lovenkrands/Madsen booed because of their nationality or religion... or was it just because of rivalry? ...and then you might explain what your story has to do with James McCarthy.

No they were booed along with other Rangers players of other countries because of that fact they were Gers players WHAT HAS THE TEAM THEY PLAY FOR GOT TO DO WITH THE NATIONAL SIDE JUST THE SAME AS THE STICK THIS YOUNG BOY IS GETTING

tetsujin1979

anonymous_joe wrote: »

In defence of Rangers (oh God that feels dirty) actually not really in their defence (yay! I'm not going to Hell. :P) I was at the game against Denmark (God knows how long ago) when the Oirish fans started booing Lovenkrands, and even booed Peter Madsen because they mistook him for Lovenkrands.

Madsen was booed because when he came on, the stadium announcer said it was Lovenkrands coming on. When the announcer admitted his mistake, after Madsen had been booed, his every touch was cheered by the crowd. Then Lovenkrands came on was booed immediately!

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

No they were booed along with other Rangers players of other countries because of that fact they were Gers players

I agree, it was rivalry (though to some it might have been a protest against an institutionalised sectarian and racist football club).

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

WHAT HAS THE TEAM THEY PLAY FOR GOT TO DO WITH THE NATIONAL SIDE JUST THE SAME AS THE STICK THIS YOUNG BOY IS GETTING

Nope, it's not similar, you've just contradicted yourself. No Rangers player was booed because of either his religion or his nationality.

bobbysands81

Eirebear wrote: »

Neither of them would come anywhere near the Scottish team though, theres the difference.

Really? You think South Africa and the 06 are that far behind Scotland (who I believe were ranked about 90th in the world a few years ago!)

Very little difference between the three teams. Have either of these players had anywhere near the same abuse as McGeady or McCarthy?

Let's remember that McCarthy is a player who may, or may not, turn out to be a good player. It's way too early to call yet the vitriol spews down on the poor fella, from fans and the media, every single week... unlike what happens to O'Brien and McLean.

Broxi_Bear_Eire

bobbysands81 wrote: »

I agree, it was rivalry (though to some it might have been a protest against an institutionalised sectarian and racist football club).




Nope, it's not similar, you've just contradicted yourself. No Rangers player was booed because of either his religion or his nationality.

No they were booed purely on the basis that they played for Rangers nothing to do with international football the same **** young McCarthy is getting now.

ziggy

This post has been deleted.

anonymous_joe

bobbysands81 wrote: »

What point are you trying to make?

Is it that Irish fans are racist against Danes?

Was Lovenkrands/Madsen booed because of their nationality or religion... or was it just because of rivalry? ...and then you might explain what your story has to do with James McCarthy.

Because the crowd didn't like Rangers fans? Whom they associate with Protestantism, etc, etc.

Both sides are in the wrong.

A Dub in Glasgo

This is turning into a 'ah well, the other side done it so you can't complain' type of argument. We saw naked racism from the stands directed at a young player who decided he would like to play for the RoI over Scotland. He is getting absolute dogs abuse for that and we have this whataboutery from people who should really know better. This has nothing to do with Celtic - Rangers rivalry.

eirebhoy

Eirebear wrote: »

Why cant people see that McCarthy's decision to play for Ireland might annoy a few folk?

If an Irish player, playing in Ireland chose to declare for scotland, im pretty sure he might get abuse at LOI grounds.

As much as me and you stick up for the clubs we support this is going too far. It was 100% anti-Irish booing yesterday. No excuses. You've really got to me this time trying to defend that scum.

And let me assure you, McCarthy will get abuse at every ground except Parkhead.

Yesterday was a first........

If he is booed it'll be a small proportion of anti-Irish folk because there's plenty in Scotland. I just know for sure that this wouldn't happen if he chose Jamaica. I'm absolutely a million percent certain of that.

zAbbo

That's a disgrace, great article pasted above as well.

Didn't know the extent of this - it seems ludacrious that this even exists in this day and age, but that's the simplicity of some soccer fans.

AARRRGH

zAbbo wrote: »

but that's the simplicity of some soccer fans.

Yep, there are a lot of people out there who don't realise we are all brothers and sisters, and being kind to each other is a lot more important than being nasty.

bobbysands81

Broxi_Bear_Eire wrote: »

No they were booed purely on the basis that they played for Rangers nothing to do with international football the same **** young McCarthy is getting now.

???

You've contradicted yourself again.

No Rangers player got booed because of his nationality and/or religion. McCarthy is getting booed for that very reason.

How can you say that McCarthy is getting booed because of the team he plays for?

Again I throw the names of McLean and O'Brien into the mix... no abuse at all as they chose the north of Ireland and South Africa. If they chose Ireland they would receive a completely different response from the fans and the media.

bobbysands81

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Because the crowd didn't like Rangers fans? Whom they associate with Protestantism, etc, etc.

Both sides are in the wrong.

What an utterly ridiculous statement. Compare Neil Lennon being left for dead in a lane way in Glasgow with Peter Madesn being booed. What religion was Peter Madsen? It's nothing to do with religion.

Rangers are an anti-Catholic, anti-Irish club.

Booing their players has nothing to do with religious sectarianism and everything to do with rivalry.

bobbysands81

Today's Sunday Tribune.

Mr.Nice Guy

I don't see it as 'racism' but it's definitely bang out of order and I'd like to see the SFA step in and condemn it.

bobbysands81

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

I don't see it as 'racism' but it's definitely bang out of order and I'd like to see the SFA step in and condemn it.

If James McCarthy was black would you see it as racist?

Xavi6

Are they booing/jeering etc McCarthy because of what he is or because of what he's done?

Mr.Nice Guy

bobbysands81 wrote: »

If James McCarthy was black would you see it as racist?

If they were booing him because he was black then yes because then it is racist.

Eirebear

But if James McCarthy was born white, to white parents and chose to be black in his late teens....would that be racist?

Xavi6

Eirebear wrote: »

But if James McCarthy was born white, to white parents and chose to be black in his late teens....would that be racist?

Like a backwards Michael Jackson?

Eirebear

Xavi6 wrote: »

Like a backwards Michael Jackson?

lol, there are so many ways i could carry on with that!

Mr.Nice Guy

Eirebear wrote: »

But if James McCarthy was born white, to white parents and chose to be black in his late teens....would that be racist?

If Hamilton were playing away to Atletico Madrid then maybe.

OhNoYouDidn't

Xavi6 wrote: »

Are they booing/jeering etc McCarthy because of what he is or because of what he's done?

He did what he did, declare for Ireland, because of what he is, a Scottish born Irishman.

So by booing his decision and not the other three Scottish born players this year who have declared for other nations, der hun is reinforcing how correct he was to decide to play for the country of his forefathers as he is by virtue of his ethnicity still on the fringe of Scottish society.

Anyone who is trying to paint this as ordinary football banter/abuse is either willfully trying to distort the facts to suit an agenda or totally clueless about the reality of what people of Irish descent have to put up with in West Scotland. If you aren't sure why both himself and Aiden McGeady do not see themselves as Scottish, take a look at the abuse that is coming their way simply for being of Irish descent and you might get an inkling

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

If they were booing him because he was black then yes because then it is racist.

But booing him because he is Irish isn't?

shane86

tbh I am alot more interested in Cillian Sheridan than a possibly overrated 17 year old playing in a z list SPL side (one of the few who played well vs Man U last week, first SPL goal yesterday). Check the thread on the big prospects of 2000 to see what a folly predicting players as world class can be.

OhNoYouDidn't

Supporters drag Rangers through the mud again

---

The Times October 27, 2008


Hamilton Academical 1 Rangers 3 Phil Gordon

What do Kris Boyd, Nacho Novo and James McCarthy have in common? None of them has any intention of pulling on a Scotland shirt. So, why was it only young McCarthy who had to suffer an afternoon of abuse that managed to drown out a howling gale at New Douglas Park on Saturday?

The oddest trio since The Thompson Twins each contributed to an occasion stained by the background noise that had its roots not in the Eighties, but the 1800s. The Rangers supporters yet again defied their own manager, Walter Smith, who has urged those who persist in The Famine Song to stop ignoring their club’s pleas to end the anti-Irish chanting.

Just days earlier, Smith had admitted his embarrassment in a newspaper interview by stating: “The truth is, there is still an aspect of sectarianism among a certain number of supporters.” No sooner had the words left his lips than the other words were being belted out by the mouths of the travelling support.

It has been that way all season – at Ibrox, too, since the issue arose. Almost as a mark of defiance. On Saturday, though, it took on a far more hostile tone, McCarthy having his every touch jeered because he recently refused to reverse his decision to play for Ireland, not Scotland.

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The teenage Glaswegian also had to put up with graphic visual demonstrations from the Rangers fans occupying two stands about what they thought of him, while his name was added to The Famine Song. No doubt some players view that sort of “stick” as proof that they are doing a good job if the opposition fans are wound up, but most Rangers fans would not recognise McCarthy in the street and some even mistook him for James McArthur, his midfield colleague, because they booed the Scotland Under21 player when his name was read out.

In an ugly atmosphere, the Hamilton fans – meek as church mice all season – actually stood up in support of McCarthy and chanted his name. The rancour spilled over into the main stand, where police spent most of the afternoon removing Rangers fans who had gone undercover, but who fell into dispute with the local season-ticket holders once Boyd cancelled out the lead provided by Hamilton’s Brian Easton.

Boyd scored either side of the interval to steer Rangers away from a potential upset. The claims that this was the striker’s way of “sticking up two fingers” to George Burley ignores one crucial fact: it was Boyd who severed his connection with Scotland, not the other way about. Is Boyd jeered by the Rangers support for this “unpatriotic” act? Not likely. At least McCarthy, whose touch and energy underlined why Giovanni Trapattoni is likely to give him his full debut for Ireland this month, has stuck with the country that first offered him the chance to play international football and capped him at four age levels.

Boyd’s reworking of the “Scottish till I die” mantra into “Scottish till I’m dropped” has taken on a peculiar oddity because of the supposed desire of Novo to play for Scotland. However, the difference between Novo and his colleague is that the Spaniard has shown a far thicker skin when it comes to being marginalised.

Despite everything he has done for Rangers in recent seasons, Novo is continually left on the bench. He was there again on Saturday, offered only a cameo role, but made the most of it by racing away after a blunder by Martin Canning to score a clinical goal that sealed his side’s comeback.

Burley, though, is unlikely to be pursuing McNacho now that he is free to take up British citizenship after living in Scotland for seven years for one simple reason – the player does not have a UK passport.

Boyd showed his customary ruthlessness in converting a 41st-minute penalty after Trent McLenahan pushed Kenny Miller, but even he was too sheepish to celebrate putting Rangers in front with a header in the 49th minute when television showed the striker clearly offside before he met Steven Davis’s cross.

“I have not liked hogging the headlines in the past few weeks but at least Nacho has taken the pressure off me now,” Boyd said. “I don’t have a point to prove to anyone except myself. As long as I keep going about it the way I did here, I’ll do all right. I knew when I made the Scotland decision I had to start again at club level.”

Poor Hamilton did not deserve a fifth successive defeat, or to slide to the bottom of the table, after the perfomance they put in. Billy Reid’s team adapted to the capricious wind far better than the visiting team, by keeping their passing game short, and a fine header from Easton, the left back, another of their home-grown youngsters, illustrated the club’s ethos.

Reid had enough courage to give debuts to two more teenagers, James Gibson and Lucas Akins, against a team who were conquering Europe six months ago. “That is what Hamilton Academical is all about,” the manager said. “There is no panic setting in. We will continue to play in the right manner. Some of the younger players are developing so well.”

Next up? Rangers again, in the Cooperative Insurance Cup tomorrow. “A nice easy game at Ibrox to get back to winning ways,” Reid joked. “Seriously, if we can’t enjoy that as a club, we should not be here.”

Hamilton (4-4-1-1): T Cerny 7 T McLenahan 6 M Canning 5 C Swailes 6 B Easton 7 A Neil 8 J McArthur 6 S Mensing 7 J Gibson 6 J McCarthy 7 L Akins 6 Substitutes R Offiong (for Mensing, 83), M Corcoran (for Gibson, 63 4), D Graham (for Akins, 63). Not used S Murdoch, D Elebert, C Casement, S Ettien.

Rangers (4-4-2): A McGregor 7 K Broadfoot 6 M Bougherra 6 D Weir 8 S Papac 7 S Davis 8 P Mendes 6 K Thomson 7 D Beasley 5 K Boyd 7 K Miller 7 Substitutes N Novo (for Beasley, 70min), K Lafferty (for Miller, 83). Not used N Alexander, C Dailly, R Loy, J McMillan, J-C Darcheville.

Mr.Nice Guy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

But booing him because he is Irish isn't?

Exactly.

bobbysands81

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Exactly.

Of course it is racist.

Mr.Nice Guy

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Of course it is racist.

It's not racist. The people who booed McCarthy didn't do it because they viewed him as being from a different race.

Irish people aren't a race of people. We're a nationality. There's a difference. If Steven Reid went to Ibrox I'd wager he'd be booed, not because of the colour of his skin but because he's an Irish player. If it was the former that would be racist, the latter is just anti-Irish stupidity.

A Dub in Glasgo

The law begs to differ

Mitch Connor

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's not racist. The people who booed McCarthy didn't do it because they viewed him as being from a different race.

Irish people aren't a race of people. We're a nationality. There's a difference. If Steven Reid went to Ibrox I'd wager he'd be booed, not because of the colour of his skin but because he's an Irish player. If it was the former that would be racist, the latter is just anti-Irish stupidity.

If i stood outside and boo'd every polish person i saw simply because of their nationality would that not be racist?

Mr.Nice Guy

A Dub in Glasgo wrote:

The law begs to differ

Well if that's true then I think the law is an ass.

Tauren wrote: »

If i stood outside and boo'd every polish person i saw simply because of their nationality would that not be racist?

I wouldn't think so because you're not booing them for their skin colour but because of their nationality. It seems to border more on xenophobia than racism.

If an English guy insulted me because of my Irishness I wouldn't think of myself as having been the victim of racist abuse. I don't feel I'm two races, white and Irish. I don't know of many national groups who refer to themselves as a race but it seems a popular thing in our nation for some reason.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

It's not racist. The people who booed McCarthy didn't do it because they viewed him as being from a different race.

Irish people aren't a race of people. We're a nationality. There's a difference. If Steven Reid went to Ibrox I'd wager he'd be booed, not because of the colour of his skin but because he's an Irish player. If it was the former that would be racist, the latter is just anti-Irish stupidity.

first of all, Irish are a nation and a race. In case you were asleep for the last 85 years, not all Irish people living in Ireland are part of the Irish nation. But thats an aside

To assume racism is only about abusing people with different colour skin (why is that not 'anti-black stupidity' then?) is such a farcical position I can only assume that you are arguing for the sake of it, and racism in football quite frankly to important an issue for your weak attempts at wind up.

OhNoYouDidn't

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Well if that's true then I think the law is an ass.



I wouldn't think so because you're not booing them for their skin colour but because of their nationality. It seems to border more on xenophobia than racism.

If an English guy insulted me because of my Irishness I wouldn't think of myself as having been the victim of racist abuse. I don't feel I'm two races, white and Irish. I don't know of many national groups who refer to themselves as a race but it seems a popular thing in our nation for some reason.

According to English law you have been as there is no such thing as 'white'. Irish is your ethnic group.

But regardless of any assinine discussions over whether its racism or xenephobia, it should not happen.

bobbysands81

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

According to English law you have been as there is no such thing as 'white'. Irish is your ethnic group.

But regardless of any assinine discussions over whether its racism or xenephobia, it should not happen.

You're right, getting bogged down in the semantics of the argument is taking focus away from the actual argument.

Benedict XVI

I have not read all this thread but can I ask this question, and I am aware that it is more suited to Politics than Soccer

'Why are we as Irish people so concerned about what other peoples think of us'

Rangers fans are anti-Irish, so F**king what.

Fair enough the player is getting abuse for being Irish but hey, he is not the first player to get grief because of where he is from (or where he is going in this case) and he won’t be the last.

OhNoYouDidn't

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Fair enough the player is getting abuse for being Irish but hey, he is not the first player to get grief because of where he is from (or where he is going in this case) and he won’t be the last.

So we should just shrug our shoulders and accept racism on the terraces, or in society too for that matter?

Its wrong and people are standing up and challenging it. If the resistance to racism offends you, I think you need to go and have a lie down.

5ForKeeps

Racism and Sectarism have no place in football end of or society.

Benedict XVI

5ForKeeps wrote: »

Racism and Sectarism have no place in football end of or society.

Tell that to all the Irish fans (and there were a lot of them) who roundly booed every Rangers player as they were introduced for Scotland during the Scotland v Ireland friendly in Hampden in 2003.

A Dub in Glasgo

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I have not read all this thread but

I always love the 'I have not read the thread but...' type of posts.

bobbysands81

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Tell that to all the Irish fans (and there were a lot of them) who roundly booed every Rangers player as they were introduced for Scotland during the Scotland v Ireland friendly in Hampden in 2003.

:rolleyes:

Were these players booed because of their religion or nationality? NO.

There is nothing sectarian or racist about booing people who play for Rangers. If you think otherwise then let's hear why???

I can't wait to read your response.

Mr.Nice Guy

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

first of all, Irish are a nation and a race. In case you were asleep for the last 85 years, not all Irish people living in Ireland are part of the Irish nation. But thats an aside

The Irish are a nation, not a race. Why is this a concept you find so difficult to grasp? Race and nationality are two different things. I share a common nationality with a black man born in Ireland but not a common race as he is a different skin colour to me. This of course is in the world of common sense and not the world of 'let's get pedantic for a laugh'.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote:

To assume racism is only about abusing people with different colour skin (why is that not 'anti-black stupidity' then?) is such a farcical position I can only assume that you are arguing for the sake of it, and racism in football quite frankly to important an issue for your weak attempts at wind up.

Well you know what they say about assuming. There's nothing farcical in looking upon racism as being directed against people's skin colour rather than using archaic notions of the 'Irish race' like we're living in the 19th century.

By the way I wasn't on a 'wind up' but rather expressing my annoyance at a term which I find inaccurate.

bobbysands81

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The Irish are a nation, not a race. Why is this a concept you find so difficult to grasp? Race and nationality are two different things. I share a common nationality with a black man born in Ireland but not a common race as he is a different skin colour to me. This of course is in the world of common sense and not the world of 'let's get pedantic for a laugh'.



Well you know what they say about assuming. There's nothing farcical in looking upon racism as being directed against people's skin colour rather than using archaic notions of the 'Irish race' like we're living in the 19th century.

By the way I wasn't on a 'wind up' but rather expressing my annoyance at a term which I find inaccurate.

So discrimination based on nationality is okay in your book but discrimination based on colour of skin isn't?