James McCarthy

Mr.Nice Guy · 30-10-2008 12:46am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

So discrimination based on nationality is okay in your book but discrimination based on colour of skin isn't?

Uh, NO. What made you jump to that conclusion? I'm a big fan of McCarthy and I think the people who have given him a hard time are absolute low-lifes. I don't however agree that they are racists. That word is tossed about far too freely in my view.

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 9:21am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

:rolleyes:

Were these players booed because of their religion or nationality? NO.

There is nothing sectarian or racist about booing people who play for Rangers. If you think otherwise then let's hear why???

I can't wait to read your response.

Rangers players are booed because Rangers are perceived, by the Irish and Celtic support, as a protestant unionist club.

Celtic fans will hide behind the 'rivalry' excuse but we all know the reason is the majority hate protestants and unionists (bty the way your id gives it away 'terrorist who committed suicide in 1981').

Ireland fans have no excuse, they are just stupid.

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 9:39am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Rangers players are booed because Rangers are perceived, by the Irish and Celtic support, as a protestant unionist club.

Celtic fans will hide behind the 'rivalry' excuse but we all know the reason is the majority hate protestants and unionists (bty the way your id gives it away 'terrorist who committed suicide in 1981').

Ireland fans have no excuse, they are just stupid.

Sorry bobbysands1981, I was incorrect in what I said about your id in the above post , I stand corrected it should read

'(bty the way your id gives it away 'common criminal who committed suicide in 1981').

Killme00 · 30-10-2008 10:07am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Sorry bobbysands1981, I was incorrect in what I said about your id in the above post , I stand corrected it should read

'(bty the way your id gives it away 'common criminal who committed suicide in 1981').

Oh dear!!

You cant answer the mans questions so you resort to baiting him and several others with that nonsense.

Mitch Connor · 30-10-2008 10:10am

BTW, What does BTY mean anyway?

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 10:18am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Rangers players are booed because Rangers are perceived, by the Irish and Celtic support, as a protestant unionist club.

Celtic fans will hide behind the 'rivalry' excuse but we all know the reason is the majority hate protestants and unionists (bty the way your id gives it away 'terrorist who committed suicide in 1981').

Ireland fans have no excuse, they are just stupid.

Rangers are not, and never have been, a Protestant club. They have been an anti-Catholic and anti-Irish club though.

Celtic fans hate Protestants? Prove it, I bet you can't. Show me a video from Youtube of Celtic fans in Celtic Park singing an anti-Protestant song. Actually show me a video of Celtic fans at ANY soccer ground singing any anti-Protestant song.

I'll save you the trouble... Celtic fans don't have any anti-Protestant songs so you won't be able to find any. Celtic fans actually sing songs in support of famous Protestants in our clubs past, I know many many Protestant Celtic fans. Celtic fans, in general, couldn;t care less what religion anyone is (yes we do have a few idiots who do though). I have never heard a negative comment about anyone's religion at a Celtic match.

If you don't know about something you really should say nothing about it... but then I could counter by saying that you are named after the world's best known Nazi sympathiser, but that would be an untruth and might cause offence to some.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 10:19am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Uh, NO. What made you jump to that conclusion? I'm a big fan of McCarthy and I think the people who have given him a hard time are absolute low-lifes. I don't however agree that they are racists. That word is tossed about far too freely in my view.

Apologies - bad mood yesterday!

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 10:46am

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Rangers are not, and never have been, a Protestant club. They have been an anti-Catholic and anti-Irish club though.

Celtic fans hate Protestants? Prove it, I bet you can't. Show me a video from Youtube of Celtic fans in Celtic Park singing an anti-Protestant song. Actually show me a video of Celtic fans at ANY soccer ground singing any anti-Protestant song.

I'll save you the trouble... Celtic fans don't have any anti-Protestant songs so you won't be able to find any. Celtic fans actually sing songs in support of famous Protestants in our clubs past, I know many many Protestant Celtic fans. Celtic fans, in general, couldn;t care less what religion anyone is (yes we do have a few idiots who do though). I have never heard a negative comment about anyone's religion at a Celtic match.

If you don't know about something you really should say nothing about it... but then I could counter by saying that you are named after the world's best known Nazi sympathiser, but that would be an untruth and might cause offence to some.

I know loads of Celtic fans that shout 'Sein fein (sp), IRA' in the middle of 'The Fields Of Athenry'.

There is a guy selling very republican badges on the street outside Celtic Park, he has a brisk trade.

Many people support Celtic because they see it as a way of showing their anti protestant anti unionist feelings

Stop fooling yourself that Celtic fans are some sort of altruistic group who consider all gods children as equals, and love all gods children equally, they do it their s**te.

Oh and by the way you are thinking of Pius XII.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 11:00am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I know loads of Celtic fans that shout 'Sein fein (sp), IRA' in the middle of 'The Fields Of Athenry'.

There is a guy selling very republican badges on the street outside Celtic Park, he has a brisk trade..

He said anti-protestant.....

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Many people support Celtic because they see it as a way of showing their anti protestant anti unionist feelings

.

I have a season ticket for Parkhead and I have yet to meet one.

If I were to say all Liverpool fans support murder because they stuck with their side after heysel, how long would I last here? But its ok to make outrageous generalisations about Celtic based on the voices in Benedicts head? Are the mods asleep?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 11:04am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

The Irish are a nation, not a race. Why is this a concept you find so difficult to grasp? Race and nationality are two different things. I share a common nationality with a black man born in Ireland but not a common race as he is a different skin colour to me. This of course is in the world of common sense and not the world of 'let's get pedantic for a laugh'.
.

you are accusing me of pedantry? :eek:

Race and nationalty in many cases are the same. Many argue that Irish is not a nation at all due to partition. I suggest you do some basic research on ethno-politics and the sociology behind them before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 11:10am

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I have a season ticket for Parkhead and I have yet to meet one

You, like other Celtic fans are in denial and going around with you head in the sand

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 12:50pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

You, like other Celtic fans are in denial and going around with you head in the sand

So prove us wrong! Answer BS81's question. Is there any evidence of any sectarian singing or chanting from the Celtic support? You have made the allegation, you should back it up. In fact, on most sites the mods would insist you do....

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 12:58pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

So prove us wrong! Answer BS81's question. Is there any evidence of any sectarian singing or chanting from the Celtic support? You have made the allegation, you should back it up. In fact, on most sites the mods would insist you do....

I'll bring a camcorder to the pub the next time the Celtic fans start singing

I'll bring a camcorder to Celtic park and record the people buying the IRA badges off the guy on the street outside the ground before they go into the game.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 1:09pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I'll bring a camcorder to the pub the next time the Celtic fans start singing

I'll bring a camcorder to Celtic park and record the people buying the IRA badges off the guy on the street outside the ground before they go into the game.

...and still you can't back up your accusations.

either back them up or retract the statement.

You said that a majority of Celtic fans hate Protestants, a very serious allegation, now back it up or retract it. If its a majority of fans it should be very easy to back it up.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 1:15pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Oh and by the way you are thinking of Pius XII.

No I'm not.

Benedict XVI enrolled in Hitler Youth in 1941.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 1:15pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I'll bring a camcorder to the pub the next time the Celtic fans start singing

I'll bring a camcorder to Celtic park and record the people buying the IRA badges off the guy on the street outside the ground before they go into the game.

You alledged anti-Protestant sectarianism amongst the majority of Celtic's support. Not Republicanism.

Back up your allegation.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 1:16pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You alledged anti-Protestant sectarianism amongst the Celtic support. Not Republicanism.

Back up your allegation.

He didn't merely allege it, he said that the majority of Celtic fans are anti-Protestant.

Mitch Connor · 30-10-2008 2:05pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

No I'm not.

Benedict XVI enrolled in Hitler Youth in 1941.

isn't it true that he did not have a choice?

rovingrover · 30-10-2008 2:27pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

You alledged anti-Protestant sectarianism amongst the majority of Celtic's support. Not Republicanism.

Back up your allegation.

I wouldn't agree with the majoirty bit.

Surely chanting support for an organisation that slaughtered over a thousand protestants is about as anti protestant sectarian as you get.

UVF chants from Rangers supporters is anti RC sectarianism too.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 2:59pm

rovingrover wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the majoirty bit.

Surely chanting support for an organisation that slaughtered over a thousand protestants is about as anti protestant sectarian as you get.

UVF chants from Rangers supporters is anti RC sectarianism too.

First of all, Republican singing and chanting is long gone from Parkhead.

While not a SF man, I do not accept the argument that the organisation in question did what it did out of sectarian motivations. Many protestants were members of the IRA over the years.

He has alledged that most Celtic fans are anti-prostestant bigots. He needs to back that up, and simply saying that there are Republicans amongst the Celtic support is nowhere near good enough.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 3:11pm

rovingrover wrote: »

I wouldn't agree with the majoirty bit.

Surely chanting support for an organisation that slaughtered over a thousand protestants is about as anti protestant sectarian as you get.

UVF chants from Rangers supporters is anti RC sectarianism too.

The UVF claimed that Catholics were part of the pan-nationalist front and were therefore legitimate targets.

In general IRA targets were not singled out due to their religion. Bar a couple of very dark and despicable deeds the IRA were not waging a similar sectarian war. Many many great Republicans were Protestants. In my eyes somebody who is anti-Protestant cannot call themselves a Republican. Anyway, this debate is for another thread, I just wanted to comment on your specific post.

The floor awaits you Benedict XVI... either back up your statement or retract it.

rovingrover · 30-10-2008 3:25pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

First of all, Republican singing and chanting is long gone from Parkhead.

While not a SF man, I do not accept the argument that the organisation in question did what it did out of sectarian motivations. Many protestants were members of the IRA over the years.

He has alledged that most Celtic fans are anti-prostestant bigots. He needs to back that up, and simply saying that there are Republicans amongst the Celtic support is nowhere near good enough.

It's not gone from away games.

While terrorism in Northern Ireland during the troubles was more politically motivated than sectarian there was clearly a sectarian element to both sides. Try telling northern protestants that the IRA weren't sectarian.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 3:40pm

rovingrover wrote: »

It's not gone from away games.

While terrorism in Northern Ireland during the troubles was more politically motivated than sectarian there was clearly a sectarian element to both sides. Try telling northern protestants that the IRA weren't sectarian.

Its another debate for another day, but I would strongly argue against the notion that Republicanism is sectarian.

Benedict needs to back his allegation up.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 4:01pm

rovingrover wrote: »

Try telling northern protestants that the IRA weren't sectarian.

Try telling northern Protestants that Catholics are equal to them!

That's my last comment on this - Start a thread on the appropriate forum and I'll debate with you pal no bother!

No white smoke coming from Benedict yet!

Mitch Connor · 30-10-2008 4:05pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its another debate for another day, but I would strongly argue against the notion that Republicanism is sectarian.

Benedict needs to back his allegation up.

Indeed - my great grandfather was a member of the IRA back in the day, 1916, GPO era and he never had an issue with protestants, purely wanted an Ireland free from British rule.

He later became a Minister for Defence and President of the FAI.

rovingrover · 30-10-2008 4:10pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Its another debate for another day, but I would strongly argue against the notion that Republicanism is sectarian.

Benedict needs to back his allegation up.

Is Loyalism sectarian then?

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 4:19pm

rovingrover wrote: »

Is Loyalism sectarian then?

Loyalism sees Catholics as part of the pan-nationalist front and therefore they are legitimate targets.

Have this in the appropriate forum mate, it's detracting from the proper issue at hand here.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 4:51pm

rovingrover wrote: »

Is Loyalism sectarian then?

Not by definition, but it manifested itself in sectarian murder and visceral anti-catholicism.

None of this has anything to do with Benedicts claims that most Celtic fans are anti-protestant.

event · 30-10-2008 4:55pm

so, james mcCarthy, eh lads?

Mr.Nice Guy · 30-10-2008 5:14pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

you are accusing me of pedantry? :eek:

Race and nationalty in many cases are the same.

Many argue that Irish is not a nation at all due to partition. I suggest you do some basic research on ethno-politics and the sociology behind them before you make a bigger fool of yourself.

As I said previously, race and nationality are not one and the same in our case. The fact you failed to take me up on that point, and instead rattled off terms you no doubt stayed up on Wikipedia all last night to find, suggests to me that you now realise that.

PS I study history and politics so I don't need lectures on the subject from you. I do however admire your attempt to be patronising and condescending when you are simply talking out of your arse.

I'm done going over this with you as your ability to grasp an opposing viewpoint is almost as bad as your overall attitude. Almost.

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 5:19pm

My opinions are based on experiences of seeing Celtic fans all over the world and being to Celtic Park.

I believe there is a ‘sectarian’ element amongst of Celtic ‘fans’ that hate Protestants, unionists, Brits, Loyalists, and it’s a fairly big element.

I also think that other Celtic fans who do not believe that there is a sectarian element to the Celtic support are deluding themselves.
They say that it is ‘rivalry’ rather than sectarianism and that the fans who exhibit this sectarianism are not ‘real fans’, but to me they are just as into the Celtic culture as the rest of the Celtic fans.

rovingrover · 30-10-2008 5:26pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Not by definition, but it manifested itself in sectarian murder and visceral anti-catholicism.

None of this has anything to do with Benedicts claims that most Celtic fans are anti-protestant.

And Republicanism is not sectarian by definition, but it manifested itself in sectarian murder and visceral anti-protestantism.

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 5:29pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

As I said previously, race and nationality are not one and the same in our case. The fact you failed to take me up on that point, and instead rattled off terms you no doubt stayed up on Wikipedia all last night to find, suggests to me that you now realise that.

PS I study history and politics so I don't need lectures on the subject from you. I do however admire your attempt to be patronising and condescending when you are simply talking out of your arse.

I'm done going over this with you as your ability to grasp an opposing viewpoint is almost as bad as your overall attitude. Almost.

As I suspected, you study, I have a masters degree in.

Nationality and race are not mutually exclusive terms in general. How have I 'failed to take you up on that point'? Irish is a recognised ethic group, as anyone who has taken part in a census in the US or Britain or most EU states. There is an Irish state as well, which also makes it a nationality, but matters are confused somewhat by the amount of ethnic Irish living in Ireland who are not part of the Irish nation. You are the one who has 'failed' to argue any of that.

But this inane prattle from you about whether the abuse is technically xenophobia rather than racism is somewhat pointless seeing as you acknowledge that it should not be happening.

Kids wha'? I blame Bebo

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 5:30pm

rovingrover wrote: »

And Republicanism is not sectarian by definition, but it manifested itself in sectarian murder and visceral anti-protestantism.

Can you please provide an example of this "visceral anti-protestantism"?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 5:32pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

My opinions are based on experiences of seeing Celtic fans all over the world and being to Celtic Park.

I believe there is a ‘sectarian’ element amongst of Celtic ‘fans’ that hate Protestants, unionists, Brits, Loyalists, and it’s a fairly big element.

I also think that other Celtic fans who do not believe that there is a sectarian element to the Celtic support are deluding themselves.
They say that it is ‘rivalry’ rather than sectarianism and that the fans who exhibit this sectarianism are not ‘real fans’, but to me they are just as into the Celtic culture as the rest of the Celtic fans.

One last time before it goes to the mods.

Can you provide any examples whatsoever of this 'big element' hating Protestants. Just one. A song, a chant, anything.

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 5:42pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Can you please provide an example of this "visceral anti-protestantism"?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

Benedict XVI · 30-10-2008 5:43pm

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

One last time before it goes to the mods.

Can you provide any examples whatsoever of this 'big element' hating Protestants. Just one. A song, a chant, anything.

Thank you for proving that you are one of the deluded apologists

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 5:47pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingsmill_massacre

and when was the last time you heard a song about the South Armagh Republican Action Force at a Celtic game?

OhNoYouDidn't · 30-10-2008 5:48pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Thank you for proving that you are one of the deluded apologists

Deluded? Moi?

Yet again, where is your proof that Celtic fans are 'anti-protestant'?

ziggy · 30-10-2008 7:07pm

This post has been deleted.

Eirebear · 30-10-2008 7:10pm

ziggy wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Ah now come on Ziggy, i think we all know that logic doesnt apply when it comes to the West of Scotland.

In general terms, republicanism does not mean anti-protestant, unfortunately due to the ingrained issues in Scotland we all know that certain uneducated members of the public, from both sides of the divide will use it as an excuse.

This is all im going to say on this matter TBH, because its not the time or place for it.

themont85 · 30-10-2008 7:12pm

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

PS I study history and politics so I don't need lectures on the subject from you.

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

As I suspected, you study, I have a masters degree in.

Well my willy is bigger than yours and i say that your both wrong so there.

Bobalicious93 · 30-10-2008 7:21pm

So did McCarthy get much abuse at Ibrox on Tuesday? I know it was on Setanta but I didn't get a chance to watch it

ziggy · 30-10-2008 7:25pm

This post has been deleted.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 9:25pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

My opinions are based on experiences of seeing Celtic fans all over the world and being to Celtic Park.

I believe there is a ‘sectarian’ element amongst of Celtic ‘fans’ that hate Protestants, unionists, Brits, Loyalists, and it’s a fairly big element.

I also think that other Celtic fans who do not believe that there is a sectarian element to the Celtic support are deluding themselves.
They say that it is ‘rivalry’ rather than sectarianism and that the fans who exhibit this sectarianism are not ‘real fans’, but to me they are just as into the Celtic culture as the rest of the Celtic fans.

Give us a bit of proof then. You said the majority of Celtic fans are anti-Protestant, now retract it or prove it.

There must be some anti-Protestant songs we sing... after all you've been to Celtic Park and all around the world, surely you can provide some sort of proof?

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 9:27pm

Bobalicious93 wrote: »

So did McCarthy get much abuse at Ibrox on Tuesday? I know it was on Setanta but I didn't get a chance to watch it

Didn't see it either but apparently not. There was an announcement over the tannoy at the start of the game asking the fans to hide their racism for 90 minutes.

I am sooooo regretting the huns not qualifying for Europe this year - UEFA would slaughter them.

In Celtic's away game against Kilmarnock last night it was great to hear the Celtic fans sing James McCarthy's name for a prolonged period.

Eirebear · 30-10-2008 9:50pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

In Celtic's away game against Kilmarnock last night it was great to hear the Celtic fans sing James McCarthy's name for a prolonged period.

PMSL, once again Celtic fans pick up a cause which isnt theirs and claim it as some sort of moral victory over "Der Hun".

Why in gods name would you sing out his name?
He doesnt play for Celtic, has never played for Celtic.

Oh, thats right....Rangers fans are in a wee bit of bother for giving him abuse (unlike St Mirren fans for some reason) so its a grand opportunity to let the world know how much better the Celtic suport is.

A bit pathetic really if you ask me.

bobbysands81 · 30-10-2008 10:06pm

Eirebear wrote: »

A bit pathetic really if you ask me.

Well you fellas do prefer to racially abuse him so I thought you might say something along these lines.

Eirebear · 30-10-2008 10:19pm

bobbysands81 wrote: »

Well you fellas do prefer to racially abuse him so I thought you might say something along these lines.

There has been a few Hearts players recieve abuse last season after the Lithuania Scotland game....did yous sing out their names too?

Broxi_Bear_Eire · 30-10-2008 11:49pm

Eirebear wrote: »

There has been a few Hearts players recieve abuse last season after the Lithuania Scotland game....did yous sing out their names too?

Don't be silly

James McCarthy

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