A question on gasification.

reilig

A question for anyone out there that knows about gasification.

What would happen if I tried to burn turf in my log gasification boiler? (when I get it of course).

I'm just asking because I intend installing one of these in my new build and I have read about people using these boilers to successfully burn paper and cardboard to generate heat. While I have a good supply of timber, I also have access to a sh!t load of turf which has good drying facilities and easy access. I read on previous posts where people stated that burning household rubbish clogs up the boiler. How would it work on dry turf?????


Dan

copper12

I have almost finished installing a wood gasifying boiler
The only experience that I have of burning turf; is in an open fire and an outdoor pot belly stove .
To burn it in a wood boiler' it would have to have; a similar moister content .
I would think that it would burn much hotter than wood
So a mixture of wood and turf should be ok
Turf on its own I don’t know if the blast tube would be able for the extra heat .

Carlow52

Turf is not a renewable fuel source:eek:

reilig

copper12 wrote: »

I have almost finished installing a wood gasifying boiler
The only experience that I have of burning turf; is in an open fire and an outdoor pot belly stove .
To burn it in a wood boiler' it would have to have; a similar moister content .
I would think that it would burn much hotter than wood
So a mixture of wood and turf should be ok
Turf on its own I don’t know if the blast tube would be able for the extra heat .

Kotly are selling a combined wood, black coal and brown coal gasifier for €1900 so I presume that coal burns hotter than both wood and turf so I presume the blast tube would stand up to turf. Using a moisture meter, dry turf has an even lower moisture content than ash that has been cut for almost 2 years.
I am planning on a mixture of wood and turf (mostly wood to be honest), but just wanted to know what people's opinions were.

Thanks, Input appreciated!!

By the way, what type of boiler and buffer did you put in and what did it set you back?

Dan

heinbloed

Keep in mind that fuel is regulated in the EU (and burning rubbish needs a permission) and that the building regulations demand a seasonal efficiency for boiler of at least 86%.

copper12

Boiler from Poland Atmos plus laddomat and safety valve; plus a couple of other things 3500 Euro
By the time I have it fitted about five grand
2000lt buffer made out of marine ply and firestone pond liner
I am still waiting on the flu and a control stat from America so I can automate the running of the two systems oil and wood

reilig

heinbloed wrote: »

Keep in mind that fuel is regulated in the EU (and burning rubbish needs a permission) and that the building regulations demand a seasonal efficiency for boiler of at least 86%.

I wouldn't burn household rubbish in any type of fire to be honest with you - especially in a gasidier. I suspect melting plastic would clog it up severely.
I do know some people who successfully recycle newspaper and cardboard into logs and claim that these logs are as efficient as wood.

reilig

copper12 wrote: »

Boiler from Poland Atmos plus laddomat and safety valve; plus a couple of other things 3500 Euro
By the time I have it fitted about five grand
2000lt buffer made out of marine ply and firestone pond liner
I am still waiting on the flu and a control stat from America so I can automate the running of the two systems oil and wood

Ditto,

Kotly in Poland can supply a 25kw wood and coal gasifier for €1900 and supply a free Laddomat. The 1500 litre Buffer is €1800 including insulation. €400 delivery. All in just over €4000 plus installation. (You're talking €9000 for the same thing from any Irish supplier - that mark up is just too much)
I could get a similar sized Atmos boiler (25kw) that will burn wood and coal for €1300.

Will you let us know how the Atmos works???

heinbloed

.....and would you please find out their seasonal efficiency rating? Could it be that these boilers are illegal in Ireland?

reilig

heinbloed wrote: »

.....and would you please find out their seasonal efficiency rating? Could it be that these boilers are illegal in Ireland?

SEI are giving grants to install log Gasification boilers. They are some of the most efficient boilers in the world. How would they be illegal??

Atmos Log Gasifying boilers have an efficiency rating of 88%.
Some of the other Gasifying boilers that SEI are allowing €2000 installation grants for do not have as good of rating. Perhaps someone should get on to them and tell them that they are giving out grants for illegal boilers!!!

copper12

The atmos boiler have fitted is the ATMOS Generator DC 25GS
After having looked at a number of boilers
The 25 GS offered everything I needed no electronics and just enough controls for it to operate safely
Having worked with natural gas boilers; it is the older ones that give the least amount of trouble . Some of the new gas boilers you would need a degree in electronics; in order to find a fault in one.
Should have the flu fitted this weekend so I will fire it up then

copper12

i try and post a few pictures or links to them not sure how to do this

heinbloed

To reilig:All boilers installed in new buildings and during renovation works in older buildings have to have a certification showing that their seasonal efficiency is at least 86%.Multifuel boilers can't reach this efficiency and boilers without Lambda sensor can't do that neither, see the banger shown by the previous poster. No electronic control-no min. efficiency=illegal.If you know of any grants paid to purchase boilers for private homes delivering less then the legally required min. efficiency of 86% let us know.And if you know of any boilers (not stoves!) installed nowadays without the min.efficiency of 86% then contact your local building authorities and report this case.

reilig

heinbloed wrote: »

To reilig:All boilers installed in new buildings and during renovation works in older buildings have to have a certification showing that their seasonal efficiency is at least 86%.Multifuel boilers can't reach this efficiency and boilers without Lambda sensor can't do that neither, see the banger shown by the previous poster. No electronic control-no min. efficiency=illegal.If you know of any grants paid to purchase boilers for private homes delivering less then the legally required min. efficiency of 86% let us know.And if you know of any boilers (not stoves!) installed nowadays without the min.efficiency of 86% then contact your local building authorities and report this case.

To be honest with you, I'm not the kind of person who goes around reporting illegal installations of boilers and I think for someone to come on here describing another's person's post of their boiler as a "banger" is shameful. Copper obviously has done his homework, he has bought an extremely efficient boiler at the right price - just because he hasn't gone through some over priced Irish supplier to get his boiler does not mean that it is illegal. When he is inslalling it into his own home, he is entitled to do it without criticism from the likes of you who clearly doesn't know what he is talking about because for your information, the Atmos 25GS that Copper has installed is approved by SEI for grant purposes. See the SEI approved list on

http://www.sei.ie/getFile.asp?FC_ID=3941&docID=761

SEI also have approved the Atmos range of S Gasification which includes theDC 25S which has a min efficiency rating of 81% (From www.atmos.cz).

Neither of these boilers have a lambada sensor, and electronoc controls. You will find find that many of the other boilers on this SEI approved list have lamba sensors or electronic controls or min efficiencies of 86%+ so I believe that your last post was wrong and you have no right to call anyone's boiler a "banger" when you do not know what you are talking about.

muffler

heinbloed, I asked you privately and now I am telling you publicly not to provide links that have no relevance to this country.

The matter is not up for discussion.

You will also need to be a bit more careful with the content of your posts.

Bogtrotter1

Hi all,
I reciently went to the ploughing show to see what was on offer in renewables, it was very interisting, loads of solar and a few wind generators, and I think I saw 4 stands with Atmos boilers. On one stand they had a lady from the Atmos factory, so, I asked why the difference in price of Irish supply against Kotly prices, and was told that the boilers sold to Germany/ western Europe were more efficient than those supplied to the Polish market, and the factory were not happy that they were being resold from Poland. When I asked what changes were made to make the difference, I was not given a good answer. Overall I thought they were fairley good value compared to some Scandinavian/Austrian/German makes. I havent fitted one yet, but may do soon. They also do a lamda version.
I think the 86% efficiency is a requirement for oil and gas only. SEIs requirement is that they be of a gasifying type, and not suitable for lignite or coal.
D

copper12

The ATMOS Generator DC 25GS that I have installed has the same specifications’ as any other atmos boiler bought in Germany or indeed here in Ireland
The only difference is the price
A lambda sensor is an option; not a necessity

I have finished the installation but for a few things I have to tidy up.
I fired the boiler this evening for the first time everything seems to be working ok
I have taken the thermostat cartridge out of the laddomat; and I will run it like this true the first and second burn .

heinbloed

To Copper:Since you can't reach the facts about efficiency of these boilers due to censorship here in this forum(I placed two links in my last -censored- post)would you please tell us what do you think what a lambda sensor is good for? How does it affect the efficiency of a boiler? I could post several links but,alas, there is some phobia against the unknown here...So please, copper, tell us how efficient your boiler is without lambda sensor and how efficient it would be if it had one installed. And secondly why do you think your boiler has an efficiency of 80% whilest the minimum efficiency available from the Atmos' range of gassifying boilers sold in the civilised part of the EU continent has an efficiency of at least 90%?Check the home page of atmos, and if you cant findt out due to language barriers contact them directly, or use google translation when checking their web home page sections. But keep these valuable links for yourself (censorship!), only tell us the reasons where the differences in efficiencies come from.And how cheap it is to buy the cheapest whilest the most expensive -by direct import-will pay for itself in a few years(amortisation time).Study the recent post of Bogtrotter1 carefully, read between the lines.We're in China it seems ...

copper12

would you please tell us what do you think what a lambda sensor is good for? How does it affect the efficiency of a boiler?

Precise control can be achieved using microprocessors and lambda sensors.?
It is of no use if the wood being burnt has a moisture content above 30% a moisture meter cost 70 Euro lambda censer plus associated electronic control 3000 Euro
Heinbloed what do you think the replacement cost of these parts would be ?

So please, copper, tell us how efficient your boiler is without lambda sensor and how efficient it would be if it had one installed.

Without lambda censer. Since I will be running this boiler at full load to charge the buffer tank about 88% With lambda censer 90%?

And secondly why do you think your boiler has an efficiency of 80%
whilest the minimum efficiency available from the Atmos' range of gassifying boilers sold in the civilised part of the EURO continent has an efficiency of at least 90%?

Why would you think the boiler I installed has an efficiency of 80%

Check the home page of atmos,

I have many times

Study the recent post of Bogtrotter1 carefully, read between the lines.
Study the recent post of Bogtrotter1. boilers sold to Germany/ western Europe were more efficient than those supplied to the Polish market, and the factory were not happy that they were being resold from Poland.

The ATMOS Generator DC 25GS has the same specifications’ no matter where it is sold.

Heinbloed lets take a step back
Check out the link below estimated cost of installation 16000 Euro
I will have bought and fitted mine for under 6000 Euro
As to the efficiency of any boiler weather wood gasifying oil boiler or a gas boiler they seldom reach the efficiency stated on the label. http://www.woodenergy.ie/iopen24/pub/ccn08_gasifier.pdf
:)

muffler

copper12 could you use multi quote or quote tags please. Its easier to understand. There's a test page where you can mess about with the various combinations.

copper12

muffler
I can just about manage posting; I will try learn some of the techniques; of this forum' pleas bear with me
God bless MS works and it’s spelling checker

muffler

copper12 wrote: »

muffler
I can just about manage posting; I will try learn some of the techniques; of this forum' pleas bear with me
God bless MS works and it’s spelling checker

No problems. You will get the hang of it as you go along.

etcetc

what size flue is needed for the atmos?