Budget 2009

faceman

kenco wrote: »

Bit more on the radio this am about the parking levy;

1. It will not apply when there is no viable alternative to the car

Its getting flakier by the minute. I cant see this in its current form holding up.

what is defined as no viable alternative??

-Chris-

Wheresmejumper8 wrote: »

Technically it would be possible for them to get the CO2 for all old cars but the accuratcy would always be in question, and they need to tie it into the Certificate of Conformity (COC) which is a chassis specific EU document, from 1st January 2008 this figure was included on each vehicle birthcert when it is registered so they have accurate data from then onwards.

I thought the distributors have been producing COCs since the late 90s/early 2000s. I'd be pretty sure this info is available, going back quite a few years.

Wheresmejumper8 wrote: »

Simply from an admin point of view, I dont think they wouldnt be able to implement a CO2 based system on cars registered before 1st Jan 08. Its the same reason they adopted a tow-tier road tax system, its just too hard to administer CO2 values on the old cars.:rolleyes:

In terms of old cars, the average company car is on a 3-4 year change cycle so the information doesn't have to go back that far at all...

As for the reason for the two-tier road tax system, I was more under the impression that they didn't implement it retrospectively because it wouldn't be fair to suddenly hike up the road tax rates for people who bought high-CO2 cars under the old system under the understanding that they'd be taxed based on engine size.

-Chris-

Joker wrote: »

A little off-topic, when is the carbon budget to be announced? I know its supposed to be sometime today, but does anyone know what time?

Cheers.

Looks like it's happened!

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/1015/emissions.html

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/1015/breaking53.htm

Wheresmejumper8

Yeah, COC have been around for yonks, but the collection of the data into one single database would be where the work would lie, the revenue nearly made a complete b*lls of the Jan - July cars and only reaalised at the last minute. Maybe your right though, it depends on how determined they are to introduce it. Might stimulate the new car market at least which is dying a death!

That sounds right about the Road tax difference - didnt think of it like that.

Run_to_da_hills

eringobragh wrote: »

I wonder how they'll enforce this say my employer has parking and I get the bus or people that don't have cars how will they know if you drive to work or not? Or does the employer get hit with the 200euro levy.

Smple to monitor and enforce, I cannot mention the methods on how they will go about it though

Seth Brundle

With regard to the staff parking; we have 8 spaces at work for about 13 staff. Furthermore, members of the public often park in these. I'm fupped if I'm paying this tax!
As for the civil servants having to pay - a chap on the wireless this morning seemed sure that they were exempt from it as they were classified differently from people who actually work!

ninty9er

kbannon wrote: »

With regard to the staff parking; we have 8 spaces at work for about 13 staff. Furthermore, members of the public often park in these. I'm fupped if I'm paying this tax!
As for the civil servants having to pay - a chap on the wireless this morning seemed sure that they were exempt from it as they were classified differently from people who actually work!

As far as I'm aware, you only pay tax if you don't pay each time you park in the space, and if you don't pay to park at work, I have no pity.

Heroditas

kbannon wrote: »

as they were classified differently from people who actually work!

Well there are many different ways to class civil servants, most of them are too rude to be posted though. :P

eringobragh

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Smple to monitor and enforce, I cannot mention the methods on how they will go about it though

Simple, Granted but not every company in the country is going to use A**R Its not feasible!

............Don't make me get out my tinfoil hat again

eringobragh

ninty9er wrote: »

and if you don't pay to park at work, I have no pity.

WTF!! More FF wish wash :mad:, FFers can f**k off if they thing there getting a vote off me next run.

Fianna Fail...A lot done??? More to screw.

kenco

faceman wrote: »

what is defined as no viable alternative??

There is no definition it would appear (yet)

If you have to say get two busses to work and that takes 2 hours but a drive would take half the time I would consider there that public transport is not a viable alternative.

I think they will realise very soon that this is not a runner and either they will backtrack (unlikely) or implement it in a totally unfair and unreasnoble manner.

I think they really wanted to apply a congestion charge but chickened out...

Jip

kenco wrote: »

If you have to say get two busses to work and that takes 2 hours but a drive would take half the time I would consider there that public transport is not a viable alternative.

Agree. For me by car from north-west Dublin to the canal on the southside of the city centre takes on average 45/50 mins with an hour being the very worse. By bus and foot the same journey would take an hour and a half at least. Is that viable ? I wouldn't say so.
And I do have a space provided, about the only additional perk on top of my salary. What if I just tell the company I don't want it anymore but continue to use it as I know it will always be available ? I cannot see this tax being viable at all, nevermind my alternative means of transport.
And I know the finer details haven't been worked out yet but it was originally seen as a tax on 'free' spaces, so what if I ask my employer to charge me a nominal rate ?

Honey-ec

Jip wrote: »

And I know the finer details haven't been worked out yet but it was originally seen as a tax on 'free' spaces, so what if I ask my employer to charge me a nominal rate ?

I said this exact same thing yesterday. If my employer decides to charge €10 a year for me to park, then presumably the tax doesn't apply.

Also, I've yet to hear of a form of public transport that can get me from Tullow to my job in Sandyford Industrial Estate by 8am...

Do we have details on this?

If I give staff a 1cent pay rise and charge them 1c for parking then thats that snookered?

Honey-ec

Deleted User wrote: »

Do we have details on this?

It's to be addressed in the Finance Bill next month, but apparently the Goverment don't even have any idea how they're going to implement it.

Lenihan said the bill would "clearly have to address" possible situations where workers were forced to drive to work from areas poorly served by public transport. How they're going to do this remains to be seen...

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/budget-2009/news/tds-to-pay-8364200-parking-charge-1499633.html

Sounds a bit crazy. Not that I agree with this but a congestion charge would have been simpler.

Run_to_da_hills

eringobragh wrote: »

Simple, Granted but not every company in the country is going to use A**R Its not feasible!

............Don't make me get out my tinfoil hat again

Maybe not every company but you can be damn sure every public car park in the city will have them. If they couldn't use surveillance they would have to submit a detailed plan of every public and private car park to the authorities. You would then have wardens inspecting parking slots with clip boards taking down number plates physically watching who is traveling with who. It simply won't work. :rolleyes:

This "parking tax" is none other than the birth of the London style "congestion charge" that will eventually hit every motorist traveling within the boundaries of the city center. It is just getting us "conditioned".

A parking charge of €200 a year will be pittance compared to a congestion charge. Expect in the region of €7 a day €35 a week or €1600 per annum. As someone else pointed out they cannot enforce any congestion charge until they have a decent public transport sorted out. IE Metro North and the Inter connector. This is one of the reasons why they are going ahead with it despite the downturn.

In theory a congestion charge should be put directly back into public transport as it is in Singapore. Will they do it here?

Daith

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

As someone else pointed out they cannot enforce any congestion charge until they have a decent public transport sorted out.

Of course they bloody will. Nobody uses public transport because it's rubbish? Well instead of getting the infrastructure in first then bringing in a charge, we will put the charge in and force people to use public transport.

I miss when I could go anywhere in Chicago including free transfers to other El trains and free transfers to buses all for $2.

ninty9er

eringobragh wrote: »

WTF!! More FF wish wash :mad:, FFers can f**k off if they thing there getting a vote off me next run.

Fianna Fail...A lot done??? More to screw.

The majority of people who eork in urban centres pay upwards of €15 per week to park. That's almost €700 for the average working year. My attitude towards anybody getting it free is you should be glad that chareg is only €200.

L1011

ninty9er wrote: »

The majority of people who eork in urban centres pay upwards of €15 per week to park. That's almost €700 for the average working year. My attitude towards anybody getting it free is you should be glad that chareg is only €200.

You're taking "urban centres" to mean "city centres", I guarantee you my office in a deserted industrial estate in economically destroyed Kilnamanagh will be classed as an "urban centre" by your mates in power.

I'll just park in one of the closed offices car parks, like the one beside or across the road instead then...

ninty9er

MYOB wrote: »

You're taking "urban centres" to mean "city centres", I guarantee you my office in a deserted industrial estate in economically destroyed Kilnamanagh will be classed as an "urban centre" by your mates in power.

I'll just park in one of the closed offices car parks, like the one beside or across the road instead then...

If it's applies to UL my parking is about to get a whole lot cheaper or stay the same depending, because they'll either have to make it all public or charge for it all instead of giving it to staff for free having some free public and lots of €3 public car parking:D

I reckon it means city centres.

eringobragh

MYOB wrote: »

You're taking "urban centres" to mean "city centres", I guarantee you my office in a deserted industrial estate in economically destroyed Kilnamanagh will be classed as an "urban centre" by your mates in power.

I'll just park in one of the closed offices car parks, like the one beside or across the road instead then...

x2 ..

They haven't thought it through, a group of monkeys would have a more indepth plan!! They must of took an early lunch the day they brainstormed the car parking crap.

What next a Sneezing Tax?? I'm sure it would work better...Please send used tissue to Revenue commisioner:rolleyes:

Maybe the Greens could propose a Farting tax on a count of the emissions released :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Gandalf23

ninty9er wrote: »

... I have no pity.

The phrase that sums up this budget perfectly.

From the mouths of FF babes ...

L1011

Topaz/Benchmark fuelcard price is back to within 2c of budget levels for petrol now - 118.93c from midnight.

Quint

This new parking tax is so badly thought out it's funny! I work in a dublin 2 office, there's space for about 15 cars outside, but they're on a first come first served basis. Who has to pay there? How often do you have to use it to get charged? Sounds like they want to say "look, we work in the dail and we have to pay this, look at us paying all this extra money" so they can look better. It'll probably be put on their expense accounts anyway.

Jip

Quint wrote: »

there's space for about 15 cars outside, but they're on a first come first served basis. Who has to pay there? How often do you have to use it to get charged?

Apparently everyone who has the option of using one of the spaces, no matter if they managed to get one or not. Basically they're saying if there's 10 spaces with 20 employees being able to use it, each of the 20 employees are to pay it.

Quint

I wonder what a "viable alternative" is? I mean is 2 hours on public transport a "viable alternative" to 25 minute drive? And is once a week enough to have to pay the charge? I drive a motorcycle, so makes no difference to me. But another motoring tax is sickening. But they can shaft the motorist as much as they like and say "it's for the enviroment"

Seth Brundle

Three cheers for the Green Party.

Bee

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Maybe not every company but you can be damn sure every public car park in the city will have them. If they couldn't use surveillance they would have to submit a detailed plan of every public and private car park to the authorities. You would then have wardens inspecting parking slots with clip boards taking down number plates physically watching who is traveling with who. It simply won't work. :rolleyes:

This "parking tax" is none other than the birth of the London style "congestion charge" that will eventually hit every motorist traveling within the boundaries of the city center. It is just getting us "conditioned".

A parking charge of €200 a year will be pittance compared to a congestion charge. Expect in the region of €7 a day €35 a week or €1600 per annum. As someone else pointed out they cannot enforce any congestion charge until they have a decent public transport sorted out. IE Metro North and the Inter connector. This is one of the reasons why they are going ahead with it despite the downturn.

In theory a congestion charge should be put directly back into public transport as it is in Singapore. Will they do it here?

Vote the Green slime out of government who are promoting these eco-nut taxes

G Luxel

I have to use FOUR carparks every day because of my work so that means that I have to pay 800 euros a year??????? and the fact that on top of that I have to drive 40 miles to work before I even get to my space, if im lucky.