NCT second opinion

sham08

Hi

My car recently failed the NCT and I feel like the tester was extremely hard on my I didn't get to ask anything as I collected my car after the test centre closed. But anyway the car past last time with no problems at all and now he is looking for the wishbones to be replaced, all brake lines replaced, suspension to be redone, handbrake to be replaced etc..
All the stuff that was detected on the computer I have no problem replacing like the suspension and hand brake etc.. But its the stuff that is detected visually that I am a bit annoyed about, the car is a 97 3-series bmw that I take care of so to be forced into a bill of 800euro on a car prob worth 5-6k I think I would like to get a second opinion, are you entitled to one?

Thanks

Darragh29

sham08 wrote: »

Hi

My car recently failed the NCT and I feel like the tester was extremely hard on my I didn't get to ask anything as I collected my car after the test centre closed. But anyway the car past last time with no problems at all and now he is looking for the wishbones to be replaced, all brake lines replaced, suspension to be redone, handbrake to be replaced etc..
All the stuff that was detected on the computer I have no problem replacing like the suspension and hand brake etc.. But its the stuff that is detected visually that I am a bit annoyed about, the car is a 97 3-series bmw that I take care of so to be forced into a bill of 800euro on a car prob worth 5-6k I think I would like to get a second opinion, are you entitled to one?

Thanks

There is an appeals process but there is little point in using it in your case. Whatever about questioning the subjective part of the test, BMW front wishbone bushings are a common enough problem, especially on an older car like yours. You probably don't have to replace all the brake lines, just probably either brake hoses beause they are perished or rear brake pipe(s) if one or both is corroded. I can't speak for the condition of your car but none of the fail items above would be at all uncommon on a 97 BMW. Unless these components were replaced previously as in within the last few years, the fact that you say you look after your car would have little or no bearing on the test result.

Anan1

Why not drop the car in to whoever looks after it for you - i'm sure they'd be able to tell you exactly what needs to be done.

DublinDilbert

List off the items it failed on and people will give you a rough idea of cost..... Although without seeing the car it will be hard to say what's actually required.

Yea the front ball joints are a weak point on the E36/E46, mainly cause all the breaking force for what is a fairly heavy car is transferred through them. The good thing is that on the E36 you can just replace the ball joint on the car if you know what your doing. There's also a bushing at the back of the wish bone that goes too, it's not too bad to replace. There should be no need to replace the wish bone, unless the inner ball joint is gone ( which is not usual ).

Yea the perished flexible pipes is another one they like to fail cars on, how perished they are is debatable. My E36 failed on these too, the set of flexible pipes for the front was only €40, so not too bad.

sham08

The garage I went to said it would be a bad idea to replace just the bushings and/or ball joint due to all the work on getting the bushings/ball joint onto the old wishbone. It is the flexible brake lines and the metal lines that have been highlighted.
Feel free to correct me on these things

• The suspesension had an imbalance of 60% compared to an allowable of 30 % so I'm guessing its the shocks and not the spring.
• Also the hand brake was unbalanced by 75% so I'm guessing its the little shoes.
• The garage want to drop the petrol tank and replace the lines even though they haven't looked at the underside of the car yet. I would have thought that the lines above the petrol tank would be the last place for the lines to corrode.

I'll try to get the full list up soon enough.

Thanks guys

DublinDilbert

sham08 wrote: »

The garage I went to said it would be a bad idea to replace just the bushings and/or ball joint due to all the work on getting the bushings/ball joint onto the old wishbone. It is the flexible brake lines and the metal lines that have been highlighted.
Feel free to correct me on these things

• The suspesension had an imbalance of 60% compared to an allowable of 30 % so I'm guessing its the shocks and not the spring.
• Also the hand brake was unbalanced by 75% so I'm guessing its the little shoes.
• The garage want to drop the petrol tank and replace the lines even though they haven't looked at the underside of the car yet. I would have thought that the lines above the petrol tank would be the last place for the lines to corrode.

I'll try to get the full list up soon enough.

Thanks guys

On the wish-bones, they want to do a bolt on job, which should reduce the labour bill, but increase the parts bill... can you post exactly what the wish-bones failed on?

The 60% imbalance on suspension, was it front or back? sounds like you need 2 new shocks anyway. Back shocks are dead easy to do, front ones are a little more tricky.

Handbrake might just need to be adjusted... although they should inspect the rear pads/shoes to be sure....

The metal lines need to be inspected, to see how bad they are... a little rub with sand paper in a few spots should show if the rust is just surface deep or not. If its just surface rust it can be cleaned up with a little sand paper and some black hammerite.... flexible hoses will generally need to be replaced....

Captain Slow IRL

sham08 wrote: »

The garage I went to said it would be a bad idea to replace just the bushings and/or ball joint due to all the work on getting the bushings/ball joint onto the old wishbone. It is the flexible brake lines and the metal lines that have been highlighted.
Feel free to correct me on these things

• The suspesension had an imbalance of 60% compared to an allowable of 30 % so I'm guessing its the shocks and not the spring.
• Also the hand brake was unbalanced by 75% so I'm guessing its the little shoes.
• The garage want to drop the petrol tank and replace the lines even though they haven't looked at the underside of the car yet. I would have thought that the lines above the petrol tank would be the last place for the lines to corrode.

I'll try to get the full list up soon enough.

Thanks guys

The ball-joints can be replaced without replacing the whole wishbone, but you'll have to go to someone with the correct tool to replace them - very easily damaged putting in new ones. 2 new wishbones can be bought from gsfcarparts.com for under €100 for a cheap set or around €200 for a better quality item.

If it has disc brakes on the back, it might only be the shoe activators - they seize up, rendering the hand brake near useless. Caveat - Could be the shoes though, the activators are more likely to blame.

The brake lines come in one complete piece and unfortunately, run over the petrol tank - the tank has to come down if the brake lines are being replaced.

sham08

DublinDilbert wrote: »

can you post exactly what the wish-bones failed on?

It is a visual defect which just says (Front suspension-ball joints- worn- left & right)

DublinDilbert wrote: »

The 60% imbalance on suspension, was it front or back?

Front and it was actually 65%

DublinDilbert wrote: »

If its just surface rust it can be cleaned up with a little sand paper and some black hammerite.... flexible hoses will generally need to be replaced....

Hopefully this is what it is, fingers crossed, I would do this myself if I could get the car on a lift. I do need to replace the flexible hoses also. How much of this could I do myself before bringing it to the garage? Or would I be better to just get the garage to do it all?

DublinDilbert

sham08 wrote: »

It is a visual defect which just says (Front suspension-ball joints- worn- left & right)

Some times these are miss-diagnosed as the ball joints sit in rubber, so there's a little play in them. Although it would not be uncommon that one or both would be gone.

I made up a jig to push the old ball joint out, and push the new one in. It's a fairly tight fit, so its physical work. Alternatively as the ball joint sits in rubber you can cut it out of its sleve, then just put a cut in the sleve to get it out of the wishbone. You'll still need some sort of jig to push the new ball joint in. Ball joints on their own are about €20 each from GSF.

sham08 wrote: »

Front and it was actually 65%

Sounds like one of your front shocks is gone, probably the passenger side as it normally hits the pot holes. Probably best to replace both.

sham08 wrote: »

Hopefully this is what it is, fingers crossed, I would do this myself if I could get the car on a lift. I do need to replace the flexible hoses also. How much of this could I do myself before bringing it to the garage? Or would I be better to just get the garage to do it all?

With the E36 you can put it up on the jack (jack goes in from the side), then pop an axel stand under the jacking point. You would need to sand the pipes and see is it just surface rust on them. You'll probably need to unclip the pipes at a few points. From memory there's special paint you can get for them. This should be easy enough to do. Just be sure the care is secure on the axel stands.

The flexible hoses aren't too bad to replace, but you do need to minimise loss of brake fluid, and re-bleed the brakes afterwards. Before starting it would be a good idea to make sure all the bleed nipples will open/close. Get a haynes manual and check it out. This should be within the capabilities of a competent DIY mechanic.

sham08

Great, ok well I'll prob chance sanding the braking lines but as for the wishbone I think I'll get my mechanic to have a look at this. Thanks for all your help