Who said people cannot conceive ideas they dont have the language to express?

Stabshauptmann

People cannot conceive ideas they dont have the language to express. I think thats a rough paraphrase of something wittgenstein said but I cant find anything to back that up. Does anybody know who said this?

Joe1919

I wonder are you talking about his famous 'private language argument'
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Private_language_argument Basically, he saying all language is public and since our thoughts involve language, our thoughts and ideas are conditioned by our language and culture...................

Incidently, I am not convinced of Wittgenstein's arguments, especially after reading the common sense of Thomas Reid, who believes that language is basically natural and evolves from private utterences. (a sort of nature versus nurture argument ).

JeanH

That sounds awfully familiar. I keep thinking it was in the same set of notes that I had an essay called 'To follow a Rule...' by Charles Taylor in.

This features in Boudieu: A Critical Reader and Taylor cites Wittgenstein a lot. Might be in that.

FionnMatthew

It's probably Proposition 7 of the TLP:

Whereof we cannot speak, thereof we must remain silent.

Or, as it's often put:

What We Cannot Speak About We Must Pass Over in Silence

This was, remember, the first Wittgenstein, before his "turn."

It's best interpreted in the context of the logical empiricism that was the rage at the time, although Wittgenstein wasn't partial to that sort of thing at all. But that's its context.

The private language argument (PLA) is a bit different, but derives from similar sympathies. The PLA is from Philosophical Investigations era Wittgenstein, or Wittgenstein II, as he's called - after the "turn".

FionnMatthew

Joe1919 wrote: »

Incidently, I am not convinced of Wittgenstein's arguments, especially after reading the common sense of Thomas Reid, who believes that language is basically natural and evolves from private utterences. (a sort of nature versus nurture argument ).

Pardon me, but what about Wittgenstein's views do you find pointedly at odds with a robust naturalism?

Or is it the communitarian sentiments that you find problematic?

Kama

I first came across this as the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis. An interesting piece of evidence for this anthropologically are the Pirahã Amazonians, who inspired Pratchett in his Troll mathematics.