Is a peaceful 32 united ireland possible

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

I merely suggested that perhaps a little more unionist involvement in GAA activities might be encouraged by toning down the nationalist elements just a tad.

Sounds reasonable. What do you suggest?

djpbarry wrote: »

There you go again; everyone who supports a union between NI and GB is of the same mindset as Iris Robinson. Does that mean that everyone in GB who votes Labour is of the same mindset as Ruth Kelly?

Not at all, but it should be noted that not only Iris Robinson is involved in such views. While Iris was telling us how great she was, and would assist in curing people of homosexuality - Ian Paisley Jr. was telling us how much he was repulsed by homosexuality.

Meanwhile, back in Ballymena - Maurice Mills was explaining the real reason for Hurricane Katrina, which had previously wiped out an entire city. According to the DUP councillor, it was God who had sent the hurricane "as a judgment upon the wickedness of the city of New Orleans". Explaining how prior to the hurricane, a gay festival "Mardi Gras" went underway.

Oh how little dlofnep understood where hurricanes came from. He thanks the fine DUP councillor for clearing up any confusion he may of had.

JWAD

luckyfrank wrote: »

Ireland can do without people like you your a disgrace to your forefathers

Its because of people like Padraig pease, joseph plunkett and james connelly you have any freedoms at all. Your a spoilt brat you dont know how easy you have it because people before us died for our freedoms

You've no right to chuck a hypocritical insult like that and expect credibility. All you've done is post anonymously on an internet discussion forum after all.

JWAD

dlofnep wrote: »

Sounds reasonable. What do you suggest?

Not at all, but it should be noted that not only Iris Robinson is involved in such views. While Iris was telling us how great she was, and would assist in curing people of homosexuality - Ian Paisley Jr. was telling us how much he was repulsed by homosexuality.

Meanwhile, back in Ballymena - Maurice Mills was explaining the real reason for Hurricane Katrina, which had previously wiped out an entire city. According to the DUP councillor, it was God who had sent the hurricane "as a judgment upon the wickedness of the city of New Orleans". Explaining how prior to the hurricane, a gay festival "Mardi Gras" went underway.

Oh how little dlofnep understood where hurricanes came from. He thanks the fine DUP councillor for clearing up any confusion he may of had.

Excuse me but you couldn't buy a packet of bloody condoms outside of a pharmacy here until the early 90s. How long did it take for divorce to make it into the system? If the RC clergy hadn't been emroiled in abuse case after abuse case, the govt would still be sucking up to them to this day.
Swings and roundabouts.

dlofnep

Are you trying to defend the above comments?

Acacia

JWAD wrote: »

Excuse me but you couldn't buy a packet of bloody condoms outside of a pharmacy here until the early 90s. How long did it take for divorce to make it into the system? If the RC clergy hadn't been emroiled in abuse case after abuse case, the govt would still be sucking up to them to this day.

So?
We have divorce and condoms a-plenty now.
Doesn't excuse anyone for blaming a natural disaster on gay people in this day and age, to be honest.

McArmalite

JWAD wrote: »

Excuse me but you couldn't buy a packet of bloody condoms outside of a pharmacy here until the early 90s. How long did it take for divorce to make it into the system? If the RC clergy hadn't been emroiled in abuse case after abuse case, the govt would still be sucking up to them to this day.
Swings and roundabouts.

Yes the bad old days, but thankfully gone. Still, since you mentioned swings and roundabouts , don't our unionist friends on unionist controlled councils in some parts of the six counties still lock up children's swings so they cannot play on them on Sundays ?

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

Sounds reasonable. What do you suggest?

Modifying the rules I mentioned above might be a start.

thehighground

Kama wrote: »

The same point can be made on a financial level; anyone got any notion of what annexing the North would actually cost? I'd wager personally that significantly fewer people in the South would vote for unity if there was a clear financial cost to them...

I'd say the the British Gov. would see it as a very good deal to continue the 15bn a year sub for say 10-15 years while the integration process got underway. A far more attractive deal than 15bn until the end of time! Unionists are lucky that the rest of their countrymen don't have a vote in this matter - opinion polls showed that 75% of UK voters would be very happy to see the back of NI.

Now, on djpbarry point on the GAA, rather than mocking him for actually reading the rule book, perhaps you could deal with his point?

Since I haven't read the GAA rule book and djpbarry has, perhaps a few concrete suggestions as to what might be changed to make GAA more friendly to unionists would be welcomed.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

Excuse me but you couldn't buy a packet of bloody condoms outside of a pharmacy here until the early 90s. How long did it take for divorce to make it into the system? If the RC clergy hadn't been emroiled in abuse case after abuse case, the govt would still be sucking up to them to this day.
Swings and roundabouts.

Look on the bright side - Bertie usually went to a match on a Sunday, unlike his counterpart up north who took it upon himself to protest at Ravenhill because they were holding a rugby match (European Cup) on a Sunday.

Now, at least we have never elected clergymen as our politicians. And tbh, I wouldn't be too keen on it, as I suspect you wouldn't either. But that is who gets elected to office in NI.

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

Look on the bright side - Bertie usually went to a match on a Sunday, unlike his counterpart up north who took it upon himself to protest at Ravenhill because they were holding a rugby match (European Cup) on a Sunday.

Now, at least we have never elected clergymen as our politicians. And tbh, I wouldn't be too keen on it, as I suspect you wouldn't either. But that is who gets elected to office in NI.

All true of course. It was always going to be like that when Paisley was going to lose parking spaces for his congregation just down the road (shouldn't they have been walking?) lol
Lets take some time to 'reflect' over this at six o'clock when the Angelus starts bonging away on TV..............;)

thehighground

djpbarry wrote: »

FFS :rolleyes:.

I merely suggested that perhaps a little more unionist involvement in GAA activities might be encouraged by toning down the nationalist elements just a tad.

Can you be more specific - what elements toned down.

No; I have a fairly low tolerance for people who continuously misrepresent what I say while refusing to address relevant points that I raise.

What points do you want addressing?

There you go again; everyone who supports a union between NI and GB is of the same mindset as Iris Robinson. Does that mean that everyone in GB who votes Labour is of the same mindset as Ruth Kelly?

Ruth Kelly isn't married to Gordon Brown and I didn't hear any of Iris's DUP colleagues apologising for her comments. Only in NI would she not be locked up for incitement to hate!

You do realise that the UUP has only one MP now! As I say, someone is voting for Iris, Gregory etc. and they are not voting for the moderates in the UUP - so its fair to say that the DUP spokespeople are representative of unionist opinion.

thehighground

JWAD wrote: »

All true of course. It was always going to be like that when Paisley was going to lose parking spaces for his congregation just down the road (shouldn't they have been walking?) lol
Lets take some time to 'reflect' over this at six o'clock when the Angelus starts bonging away on TV..............;)

I don't see anything wrong with the pause for prayer gongs, probably why I really like the call for prayer when in Muslim countries.

We'll be all the better for it if we can respect each other's traditions

JWAD

thehighground wrote: »

I don't see anything wrong with the pause for prayer gongs, probably why I really like the call for prayer when in Muslim countries

I dont. Dammit! I want my six o'clock news at six o'bloody clock. That bell is doing nothing for me
The Muslim 'Adhan' is a sign that you are in an exotic/foreign place. Thats why I like it as I've always loved travel. And I'm from a Jewish family!!! lol

thehighground wrote: »

We'll be all the better for it if we can respect each other's traditions

Yes, even this thread shows a high degree of tolerance from the usual rabid suspects. Its just one big tolerance-fest and love-in and a shining example of why the 32 county thing can only lead to more of this lovely little thing called peace :P

dlofnep

djpbarry wrote: »

Modifying the rules I mentioned above might be a start.

What rules would you like see changed?

johndaman66

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Ireland will be unified when a nationalist majority emerges in the 6 Counties. There are not too many complex issues surrounding Irelands unification. When most people vote for it in a referendum it happens. There will be no doomsday scenario, the sky won't fall in when Ireland becomes united.

Well if you ask me one comment contradicts the other. Just try to bear in mind also that presently approximately 56% of the electorate in Northern Ireland are Unionist and 44% Nationalist. Aside from many more this looks like the first complex issue that would prevent a referendum for a Unified Ireland not being passed in Northern Ireland?

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Unionists will just have to get used to the new political status, and they'll certainly be treated better than nationalists were under British rule.

Really? What are you basing this assumption on? Firstly would Unionists partake in this new political establishment I ask you or do you believe in democracy? Aside from this it is probably worth mentioning that my mother (who has always being a catholic) and who is off Northern Irish decent originally, worked in quite a few jobs in the North in her younger days under both Unionist and Nationalist bosses and always found the Unionist bosses to be much more fairer and decent in the workplace. I don't want to place too much emphasis on the afore mentioned comment as I appreciate that there are both hardline staunch Unionists and likewise Nationalists also regardless. I also make this comment as a Catholic, albeit non practicing catholic but without any disregard or strong views against the Catholic church either.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

The Stormont executive doesn't work very well in case you haven't noticed. Its just one set of people growling across the floor at the other set for the most part. The DUP have blocked an Irish language act, and also are stalling on Policing and Justice powers. Unionists have a majority at the moment and they are using this numerical superiority to block any bill (whatever it is) that a nationalist tries to put through, just to show them whos boss rather than for any rational reason. Also you'd really have to question the viability of a state with requires enforced mandatory coalition in order to function. The Stormont government is living on borrowed time

Is this dramatically different to any other parliment in the British Isles? No doubt there are bound to be teething problems and if you suggested to anyone before the Good Friday Agreement was brokered that the DUP and Sinn Fein would even sit in the same Parliment one day you would be laughed at probably but I think that its fair to say that all things considered it works reasonably well. Under the complex circumstances I cannot see any better alternatives to an enforced mandatory coalition

johndaman66

McArmalite wrote: »

" I think it is too naive and simplistic a view to take that a 32 county Republic would create a perfect romantic Ireland. " No ever said it would create a perfect romantic Ireland. Just a reasonable and fair one is all that the vast majority of people want.

No one? A lot of people subscribing to this thread would seem to think that a united Ireland would create a perfect romantic Ireland if you ask me.

McArmalite wrote: »

" Micheal Collins (and more besides) probably realised this some 90 odd years ago. " On the treaty, Collins said some statement that it wasn't total freedom for Ireland but enough to achieve total freedom. Doubt if he envisaged it would last 90 years ( Collins was actually elected as the MP for Armagh in 1918).

He may have envisaged it lasting 100's and 1000's of years for that matter. Who knows what the man realistically thought was going to be the case? How long is a piece of string?

McArmalite wrote: »

As for the English shops, TV, soccer etc. We also wear American clothes, watch even more American TV programmes and movies etc, watch American sports the NBA, big Boxing fights, the UFC. 1,000's employed by American IT companies. Also their's Aussie soaps and nature documentary's.

It's called the Global Village.

I don't have an issue in the slightest with people shopping is English chain stores in Ireland, watching English TV, soccer, English slang, music etc. Wherever you get the best value or whatever interests you etc. But its just the fact that such large numbers of them would proclaim to be such patriotic and hard line Nationalists all the same which I find to be a bit pathetic and lame really.

TOMASJ

Well if you ask me one comment contradicts the other. Just try to bear in mind also that presently approximately 56% of the electorate in Northern Ireland are Unionist and 44% Nationalist. Aside from many more this looks like the first complex issue that would prevent a referendum for a Unified Ireland not being passed in Northern Ireland

johndaman66
What you should take into account is that this split was 30% 70% no more than 20 years ago, which is a vast swing in that time scale and will only continue, the inevitable is happening.

Really? What are you basing this assumption on? Firstly would Unionists partake in this new political establishment I ask you or do you believe in democracy? Aside from this it is probably worth mentioning that my mother (who has always being a catholic) and who is off Northern Irish decent originally, worked in quite a few jobs in the North in her younger days under both Unionist and Nationalist bosses and always found the Unionist bosses to be much more fairer and decent in the workplace. I don't want to place too much emphasis on the afore mentioned comment as I appreciate that there are both hardline staunch Unionists and likewise Nationalists also regardless. I also make this comment as a Catholic, albeit non practicing catholic but without any disregard or strong views against the Catholic church either

[/quote]What area of the North did you mother hail from.
As its a known fact in the North that if you were RC living in a RC parish you certainly would have had better conditions with a protestant employer.
You just have to look how the Irish treated their own in the states
A different story if you lived in a protestant area ( re the ship yard in Belfast)

TOMASJ

I don't have an issue in the slightest with people shopping is English chain stores in Ireland, watching English TV, soccer, English slang, music etc. Wherever you get the best value or whatever interests you etc. But its just the fact that such large numbers of them would proclaim to be such patriotic and hard line Nationalists all the same which I find to be a bit pathetic and lame really

what's in a name johndaman66 most of these english scoccer teams are english in name only, Russians. Arabs. Yanks. and Irish business men own quit a few of them

You are well aware that 99% of good purchased in any store world wide has been made in China so your logic on pathetic patriotic and hard line pathetic Nationalists doesn't hold much water.

luckyfrank

JWAD wrote: »

You've no right to chuck a hypocritical insult like that and expect credibility. All you've done is post anonymously on an internet discussion forum after all.

Everyone loses the head now and then im not a an expert or a politician.

Im not looking for credibility all i want is for people to discuss something that is close to my heart

I love my country and im proud of my nationalist heritage

However i would move heaven and earth to provide a lasting comprimise to our unionist/protestants brothers..........

johndaman66

TOMASJ wrote: »

johndaman66
What you should take into account is that this split was 30% 70% no more than 20 years ago, which is a vast swing in that time scale and will only continue, the inevitable is happening.

I don't see any reason why it would not swing back the other way all the same though Tomasj? Analysis of statistical data gathered since the 2001 Census in Northern Ireland would suggest that the Catholic population of Northern Ireland is appreciably larger than the Catholic electorate, since its age profile is younger than that of Protestants which may back up your argument. However, while the Protestant birth rate might be falling, the Catholic birth rate is going down much faster. As such I think it would be unwise to make such presumptions presently or at least until the 2011 census is completed.

TOMASJ wrote: »

What area of the North did you mother hail from.
As its a known fact in the North that if you were RC living in a RC parish you certainly would have had better conditions with a protestant employer.
You just have to look how the Irish treated their own in the states
A different story if you lived in a protestant area ( re the ship yard in Belfast)

Granted she did hail from Dungiven in County Derry which is a predominantly Catholic area. I understood when making the point initially how I would leave myself open for criticism on that one and as such hold my hands up... Perhaps not a good example to use. But the point I am trying to get across is that there is both good and bad on both sides of the political fence and all Protestants are not the source of all evil as some OP's would seem to suggest. Extremes are bad and although much badness and evil was perpetrated by Protestants and the English security forces in Northern Ireland during the troubles likewise such wrongs were also committed by Catholics without doubt.

johndaman66

TOMASJ wrote: »

what's in a name johndaman66

Seemingly or apparently quite a lot Tomasj if you take on board the anti Brit opinions of these profoundly anti Brit preachers. Until as I say these same people would do their shopping in Marks and Spencers, watch Man Utd vs Chelsea on the box buy the latest Razorlight album etc. Thats what I find pathetic and lame. Personally I don't think there is a lot in a name aside from a name which is a way of distinguishing people and as I previously said extremes ain't good.

Erin Go Brath

johndaman66 wrote: »

Well if you ask me one comment contradicts the other. Just try to bear in mind also that presently approximately 56% of the electorate in Northern Ireland are Unionist and 44% Nationalist. Aside from many more this looks like the first complex issue that would prevent a referendum for a Unified Ireland not being passed in Northern Ireland?

As Tomasj points out that gap has narrowed considerably in the past few decades, and its set to even out even more if you take the age profile into consideration, such as a large % of the current over 65 population are unionists, and all the under 30 age cohorts show Catholics outnumbering Protestants.

johndaman66 wrote: »

Really? What are you basing this assumption on? Firstly would Unionists partake in this new political establishment I ask you or do you believe in democracy? Aside from this it is probably worth mentioning that my mother (who has always being a catholic) and who is off Northern Irish decent originally, worked in quite a few jobs in the North in her younger days under both Unionist and Nationalist bosses and always found the Unionist bosses to be much more fairer and decent in the workplace. I don't want to place too much emphasis on the afore mentioned comment as I appreciate that there are both hardline staunch Unionists and likewise Nationalists also regardless. I also make this comment as a Catholic, albeit non practicing catholic but without any disregard or strong views against the Catholic church either.

Of course i believe in democracy. To put it another way if the majority supported unification, would it be fair for them to accept British sovereignty? If a 50% +1 vote for unification it happens, thats democracy. Retaining the British status of the wee six in perpetuity is not!

johndaman66 wrote: »

Is this dramatically different to any other parliment in the British Isles? No doubt there are bound to be teething problems and if you suggested to anyone before the Good Friday Agreement was brokered that the DUP and Sinn Fein would even sit in the same Parliment one day you would be laughed at probably but I think that its fair to say that all things considered it works reasonably well. Under the complex circumstances I cannot see any better alternatives to an enforced mandatory coalition

The main problem as i see it is that Sinn Féin entered into this agreement as a compromise, and in good faith. Sinn Féin however are being filibustered by the DUP every time they try to make progress such as in devolving of Policing and Justice powers. If this continues, it will be very hard for them to justify to their support the continuation of Stormont participation. Whats in it for nationalists upholding the British puppet parliament, and not even being able to get a bill of any description pushed through. Enforced mandatory coalition only works if both sides play ball with each other to get things done. This certainly isn't the case in Stormont. Joint authority from Dublin to London is something i would strongly advocate as a viable interim arrangement, pending reunification of course.

mrtaylor1981

johndaman66 wrote: »

Well if you ask me one comment contradicts the other. Just try to bear in mind also that presently approximately 56% of the electorate in Northern Ireland are Unionist and 44% Nationalist. Aside from many more this looks like the first complex issue that would prevent a referendum for a Unified Ireland not being passed in Northern Ireland?



Really? What are you basing this assumption on? Firstly would Unionists partake in this new political establishment I ask you or do you believe in democracy? Aside from this it is probably worth mentioning that my mother (who has always being a catholic) and who is off Northern Irish decent originally, worked in quite a few jobs in the North in her younger days under both Unionist and Nationalist bosses and always found the Unionist bosses to be much more fairer and decent in the workplace. I don't want to place too much emphasis on the afore mentioned comment as I appreciate that there are both hardline staunch Unionists and likewise Nationalists also regardless. I also make this comment as a Catholic, albeit non practicing catholic but without any disregard or strong views against the Catholic church either.



Is this dramatically different to any other parliment in the British Isles? No doubt there are bound to be teething problems and if you suggested to anyone before the Good Friday Agreement was brokered that the DUP and Sinn Fein would even sit in the same Parliment one day you would be laughed at probably but I think that its fair to say that all things considered it works reasonably well. Under the complex circumstances I cannot see any better alternatives to an enforced mandatory coalition

Unionists will not accept been forced to join with the Irish Republic even if there is a slight majority, they just will not accept it and Great Britiain cannot force them just like in 1912 with the Ulster Covenant and in 1974 with the Ulster Workers Council (UWC) Strike. Even the British army did not try to block the unionists, they knew well that it would just produce an all out war and forced them to take a find an alternative. It would make the troubles look like a pub fight and will not just stop at the border but will make it's way further south, including Dublin and further.

Kama

It would make the troubles look like a pub fight and will not just stop at the border but will make it's way further south, including Dublin and further.

QFT...that's the part I never hear said in all the irredentist talk of reunification, and 'once we outnumber them more' talk. Pretty unavoidably, we are talking something between a prolonged terror campaign and a civil war.

TOMASJ

mrtaylor1981 wrote: »

Unionists will not accept been forced to join with the Irish Republic even if there is a slight majority, they just will not accept it and Great Britiain cannot force them just like in 1912 with the Ulster Covenant and in 1974 with the Ulster Workers Council (UWC) Strike. Even the British army did not try to block the unionists, they knew well that it would just produce an all out war and forced them to take a find an alternative. It would make the troubles look like a pub fight and will not just stop at the border but will make it's way further south, including Dublin and further

So much for democracy, from our Loyalist friends

Firefly Fan

I haven't read all the previous posts but I'd like to say this and maybe others can tell me if I am wrong, which could be a good chance...

I think Ireland will ony become united as a single nation when and if great Britian sees no further use for the territory, seeing it as a drain on the economic resources of the main island. Until then, they will hang on to it under the guise that they are upstanding and only respecting the majority's wishes as long as they still agree with parliament policy. An example in point is that as long as Britian owns Northern Ireland, they subsequently have the right (!) to Rockall and its supposed underground minerals (thats only one quick simple example).

Will we see a united Ireland in our lifetime, I suspect not.
If it ever comes about I think (and hope) the majority of "loyalists" will accept the mandate of the vote and/or people.
There will be those that will fight it. That's expected. Its how they voice that objection that we will have to be aware of. No amount of soft-soaping the change over (when and if it happens) will deter some from attempting to chose violent methods. All we can do before that though, is continue to educate our offspring better and hope that they see the sad eventual consequences of such actions.

Kama

I think Ireland will ony become united as a single nation when and if great Britian sees no further use for the territory, seeing it as a drain on the economic resources of the main island.

That point has already passed, imo.

Will we see a united Ireland in our lifetime, I suspect not.
If it ever comes about I think (and hope) the majority of "loyalists" will accept the mandate of the vote and/or people.

Given the history of Unionism, that would (again, my opinion) be unlikely.
Psychologically, the idea of loyalty to the Union, even if the UK thinks otherwise, is core and constitutional.

Even without the problems of talking about a majoritarian vote in a divided and sectarian and its legitimacy (which is a lot trickier than the '50% + 1' approach) Unionists in a Nationalist state would no more 'lie down and roll over' than Nationalists have in a Unionist state.

johndaman66

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

As Tomasj points out that gap has narrowed considerably in the past few decades, and its set to even out even more if you take the age profile into consideration, such as a large % of the current over 65 population are unionists, and all the under 30 age cohorts show Catholics outnumbering Protestants.

Tomasj is correct in pointing this out. Although it would now appear that the catholic population as oppossed to the electorate in Northern is greater than the protestant population it is also important to bear in mind that this information is only based on statistical data which need not necessairly be too accurate and the same statistical data would also suggest that although the protestant birth rate is diminishing that the catholic birth rate is diminishing at a far greater rate. As such I would suggest that it is foolish to jump to conclusions regarding the demographics of Northern Ireland too readily or at least until the results of the 2011 census have being compiled. Particularly because as previuosly suggested the demographics of Northern Ireland is changing so rapidly.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Of course i believe in democracy. To put it another way if the majority supported unification, would it be fair for them to accept British sovereignty? If a 50% +1 vote for unification it happens, thats democracy. Retaining the British status of the wee six in perpetuity is not!

You also have to ask would a Northern Ireland with a catholic majority ratify a referendum to create a 32 county republic if there was going to be such a referendum. Bear in mind that the United Kingdom continue to pumps millions of taxpayers money into Northern Ireland each year and economically a 32 county Republic may be bad news at least initially for both Unionists and Nationalists in Northern Ireland. Aside from this and again being a democracy and due to the fact that such would dramatically alter our constitution I would be of the opinion that a referendum would be called for in the south also. Would such a referendum be ratified in the South? I for one would vote against it. As much as I would like to see a 32 county republic for romantic reasons I am also a practical and realistic person. As such I think I am being stretched enough as it is following the recent budget and would not like the idea of paying even more heavy taxes. I know Ill probably get a backlash from people to say "no pain, no gain" etc. But as previously suggested what is in a name all the same? Aside from economic reasons there would also be the very real treat of a return to the troubles which is a no no I think anyone civilised would have to agree with. Such unnecessary bloodshed and violence for the name of a United Ireland? No thanks.

Erin Go Brath wrote: »

Joint authority from Dublin to London is something i would strongly advocate as a viable interim arrangement, pending reunification of course.

Don't know how this would work. Firstly assuming that Unionists would agree to this set up does this mean that there would be one parliment in Dublin and any bills would ultimately have be passed by London. If so what about issues that affect the whole country as oppossed to just Northern Ireland. Does this mean Westminster would ultimately have jurisdiction over such issues? This would surely be a step backwards for Nationalism I'd think. Otherwise where do you draw the line in the sand regarding issues affecting Northern Ireland versus issues affecting the 32 counties? Otherwise if you mean a separate parliment in Dublin from Dail Eireann, would this not be simply the same as Stormont physically sitting in Dublin and not solve any of the issues that there are presently in Stormont? I think that no one anticipated an easy ride following the Good Friday agreement and due to the immense differences in traditions across the political spectrum in Northern Ireland there was always going to be serious difficulties but one cannot disagree that Northern Ireland is positively moving forward now all the same and with all the difficulties considered

luckyfrank

What would scottish independence mean for the north ?

Would it have any constitutional effect ?

I believe that and indepentant scotland is more likley to happen before an independant ireland would this have any sway on unionists view up north about the union

thehighground

johndaman66 wrote: »

As such I would suggest that it is foolish to jump to conclusions regarding the demographics of Northern Ireland too readily or at least until the results of the 2011 census have being compiled. Particularly because as previuosly suggested the demographics of Northern Ireland is changing so rapidly.

Another aspect worth noting (this was a topic on slugger o'toole) is that apparently there is a trend for students to migrate east to university/college with the result that a lot of protestants/unionists from the east go to college in the UK and settle there. Apparently catholics/nationalists tend to stay in NI for their education and also settle there.

You also have to ask would a Northern Ireland with a catholic majority ratify a referendum to create a 32 county republic if there was going to be such a referendum. Bear in mind that the United Kingdom continue to pumps millions of taxpayers money into Northern Ireland each year and economically a 32 county Republic may be bad news at least initially for both Unionists and Nationalists in Northern Ireland.

The only way it is going to happen is if there is a settlement from the British Government - which I'm pretty sure the British taxpayer would snap our hands off for ... think of it 15bn every year for 15 years (with a couple of billion probably from the EU as well!) or 15 bn+ every year until the end of time!) Its a no brainer for the British taxpayer!

Aside from economic reasons there would also be the very real treat of a return to the troubles which is a no no I think anyone civilised would have to agree with. Such unnecessary bloodshed and violence for the name of a United Ireland? No thanks.

Economics were the main reason why Ireland was partitioned in the first place. No doubt, Ulster unionists will be lead by economics again.

Don't know how this would work. Firstly assuming that Unionists would agree to this set up does this mean that there would be one parliment in Dublin and any bills would ultimately have be passed by London. If so what about issues that affect the whole country as oppossed to just Northern Ireland. Does this mean Westminster would ultimately have jurisdiction over such issues? This would surely be a step backwards for Nationalism I'd think. Otherwise where do you draw the line in the sand regarding issues affecting Northern Ireland versus issues affecting the 32 counties? Otherwise if you mean a separate parliment in Dublin from Dail Eireann, would this not be simply the same as Stormont physically sitting in Dublin and not solve any of the issues that there are presently in Stormont? I think that no one anticipated an easy ride following the Good Friday agreement and due to the immense differences in traditions across the political spectrum in Northern Ireland there was always going to be serious difficulties but one cannot disagree that Northern Ireland is positively moving forward now all the same and with all the difficulties considered.

You may recall that when Stormont was last in deadlock, the real threat of the tricolour & union flag flying over Stormont was what got the DUP back into Stormont quickly - so I'd be pretty sure that the British & Irish Govs. have it all worked out very well how joint authority would work.

At the moment, NI politicians are invited to participate in Dail Committees that have anything to do with NI (and you may have heard Tommy Gorman referring to Brian Cowen playing agony aunt to the DUP & SF in Gov. Buildings last week.

And yes, there would be a referendum here about uniting the island.