Changing Instructors

Greenmachine

Here's the deal guys I had an instructor who I was very happy with. Got a bunch of lesson, went through the manoveurs and the controls etc. I reached the point where I was told all I needed to do was get out and practice and I had been shown everything my instructor could show me. She said if I wanted I could cntinue to get lesson, because it was my money. Anyways all my friends are on Provisional license so there was no advantage in practising with them over on my own.

So I let the weeks pass by but now with my test only a few weeks to go. I started taking lesson again but with a different instructor. Now I am being told some things completely different to what I have been taught.

Being told to use Push/Pull where as before the hand at the bottom of the steering wheel for the manouver stays where it is. i.e the top hand push the wheel till it reaches the other then returns to it's original position. and pushes again. The bottom hand always remains on the wheel securing it.


Second difference is in realtion to the clutches. I was originally told to cover the clutch when not in use but at at a distance. Now I am being told to put it on the floor when I am not using it. This was my natural instinct when I started driving and learned to correct. As soon as I started covering it. Placing my foot on the floor felt wrong.


Next In relation to taking. My instructor is really pushing on the idea of giving it some throttle before it reaches the break point whereas I learned to started giving throttle at the break point.

I am being told the same thing in realtion to gear changes. Give it a little bit of gas before the bite point.

Also stopping in gear. I learned on the approach to traffic stopped at lights etc to downshift gears. Be dropping from 4th to 3rd or even straight in to 2nd. The way I am being told now I can end up in third or fourth stopped in traffic about to move off. I now have to get back into gear.

Also I was taught tht when I stall to take the car back into nuetral before staring the engine again. Now I am being asked to start again in gera. This seems totally wrong to me.

To cap it off he reckons I need at least another 10 hours of lessons before I am at test standard. I know ia hve some areas to work on. position on the straight and reversing around corners.

At this stage I almost feel like I would be better off driving unaccompanied between now and my test than take anymore lessons with the new instructor.

I kinda feel like he is a bit money grabbing. When I asked him about availabilty he said he had really good availabilty whereas others instructors seem to be fully booked for a few weeks.


I could get in contact with my old instructor I guess and see what she says. I was feeling pretty cool about the test, get a few more lessons in before the test work on my weak areas now, I feel wrecked about it.

J_R

Hi,

Some right, some wrong, most no big deal..

Greenmachine wrote: »

Being told to use Push/Pull where as before the hand at the bottom of the steering wheel for the manouver stays where it is. i.e the top hand push the wheel till it reaches the other then returns to it's original position. and pushes again. The bottom hand always remains on the wheel securing it.
(

Do not quite understand bit about bottom hand. If done correctly the push pull technique has BOTH hands moving around the wheel You pull down with one hand then push up with other. Both hand meet at the top and bottom of the wheel. However, for the manoeuvres, all that is required is that you turn the wheel efficiently. How, is immaterial

Greenmachine wrote: »

Second difference is in realtion to the clutches. I was originally told to cover the clutch when not in use but at at a distance. Now I am being told to put it on the floor when I am not using it. This was my natural instinct when I started driving and learned to correct. As soon as I started covering it. Placing my foot on the floor felt wrong.

Take your foot away from the clutch pedal when not in use. Why do you think most cars have a foot rest ?. Use it. If no foot rest use floor. Especially in the test, let the examiner see the clutch pedal.

Greenmachine wrote: »

Next In relation to taking. My instructor is really pushing on the idea of giving it some throttle before it reaches the break point whereas I learned to started giving throttle at the break point.

I am being told the same thing in realtion to gear changes. Give it a little bit of gas before the bite point.

Fully agree with him here, you set the power of the engine first, ie give gas first, then start finding bite point etc.

2nd point, when changing down giving wee bit of gas may facilitate a smoother gear change. Unnecessary changing up.

Greenmachine wrote: »

Also stopping in gear. I learned on the approach to traffic stopped at lights etc to downshift gears. Be dropping from 4th to 3rd or even straight in to 2nd. The way I am being told now I can end up in third or fourth stopped in traffic about to move off. I now have to get back into gear.

You will not be marked using either method. But much better driving NOT to change down.

Greenmachine wrote: »

Also I was taught tht when I stall to take the car back into nuetral before staring the engine again. Now I am being asked to start again in gera. This seems totally wrong to me.

If the car stalls you do not need to go through any special ritual before starting. Just start it immediately. Depress clutch, twist key.

Greenmachine wrote: »

To cap it off he reckons I need at least another 10 hours of lessons before I am at test standard. I know ia hve some areas to work on. position on the straight and reversing around corners.

Only the clutch advice from the old woman was really bad. All the rest, if done correctly, may not even incur a fault.

But think should change instructors. Any competent instructor will easily teach you how to reverse in one lesson. If you really really bad and built up a bit of a complex about it, might take two max.

Position on straight - simple, stay left - 1 meter out from parked cars etc etc

ztoical

J_R wrote: »

If the car stalls you do not need to go through any special ritual before starting. Just start it immediately. Depress clutch, twist key.

+ 1 I use to go through putting it into neutral etc if I stalled but if you stall at a traffic light/busy intersection the quicker you get going the better, tester doesn't want to see you causing delays on the road.

Devia

Greenmachine wrote: »

Also stopping in gear. I learned on the approach to traffic stopped at lights etc to downshift gears. Be dropping from 4th to 3rd or even straight in to 2nd. The way I am being told now I can end up in third or fourth stopped in traffic about to move off. I now have to get back into gear.

J_R answered your other questions but I disagree on this one. Its good practise to stop in 2nd gear, especially if you're in 4th gear to begin with. You can't come to a smooth stop in 4th without coasting imo.

J_R

Devia wrote: »

J_R answered your other questions but I disagree on this one. Its good practise to stop in 2nd gear, especially if you're in 4th gear to begin with. You can't come to a smooth stop in 4th without coasting imo.

That is an old wives tale promulgated by old die-hards who still think it is necessary to drive modern cars the same as they drove their Model T's.


From IAM manual

Coming to a Stop
The technique you use when coming to a complete halt after driving along in one of the higher gears often causes problems for candidates during the Advanced Driving Test. What you should do is best illustrated by imagining you are travelling along a suburban road in fifth gear at 40mph and traffic lights ahead turn red.

You slow down your car on the brakes alone, but there comes a point when the engine starts to labour. This is the moment when you de-clutch progressively, in order to prevent the engine straining the transmission and ultimately stalling. Normally it is a rule of advanced driving that you should not 'coast' with the clutch disengaged or the gearbox in neutral, but in this case you have to break this rule briefly by de-clutching so that you come to a halt without stalling the engine

My car has 6 gears. I teach my pupils NOT to change down when stopping.

They do not receive any fault. Even when they stop in 6th gear. !!!

Alanstrainor

Devia wrote: »

J_R answered your other questions but I disagree on this one. Its good practise to stop in 2nd gear, especially if you're in 4th gear to begin with. You can't come to a smooth stop in 4th without coasting imo.

I agree with J_R on this one. If you're slowing and coming to a complete stop, it is better for your clutch to stop in the gear you were cruising in, however when approaching slow, but moving, traffic, cycling down through the gears will be required.

Greenmachine

J_R wrote: »

Hi,

Some right, some wrong, most no big deal..




Do not quite understand bit about bottom hand. If done correctly the push pull technique has BOTH hands moving around the wheel You pull down with one hand then push up with other. Both hand meet at the top and bottom of the wheel. However, for the manoeuvres, all that is required is that you turn the wheel efficiently. How, is immaterial

I am not questioning the push/pull method just saying I have learned a different technique that I am able to demonstartae competantly.

Take your foot away from the clutch pedal when not in use. Why do you think most cars have a foot rest ?. Use it. If no foot rest use floor. Especially in the test, let the examiner see the clutch pedal.

I can live with my foot on the floor. It prolly made sense to cover it when I didn't know my arse from my elbow. I know when to change gears now and seemlessly smooth 90% of the time. Only gripe is my instructor encouraging me to goe into 4th in a 50 zone. I feel the engine is struggling in 4th at this speed. I feel you could get away with it in a 60 zone. I see no prob in using it on the test purely to prove I know where it is before dropping into a more appropriate gear.



Fully agree with him here, you set the power of the engine first, ie give gas first, then start finding bite point etc.

I already know exactly where the bite point is. I don't need to find it. That's my point. I never cut out with my previous instructor

2nd point, when changing down giving wee bit of gas may facilitate a smoother gear change. Unnecessary changing up.

If by give it a little gas you mean don't completly let the power off when engine braking I am completly with you. If you are talking about something else it would be awesome if you could explain it a little more.



You will not be marked using either method. But much better driving NOT to change down.

If I am approaching a red light I am aiming not to reach the stop line before the light turns green or the traffic in front before it has started moving off. If I approach a red light at 50kph I am going to have to break at the light. If however I approach it slower I can time it to arrive as the lights turn green. I then am in the effective power range of my given gear to accelerate to a more appropiate speed efficently.



If the car stalls you do not need to go through any special ritual before starting. Just start it immediately. Depress clutch, twist key.

Like I said already. never cut out with a previous instructor but I read that was the correct procedure. I guess checking my mirrors and applying the clutching and turning the ignition should be enough.




Only the clutch advice from the old woman was really bad. All the rest, if done correctly, may not even incur a fault.

But think should change instructors. Any competent instructor will easily teach you how to reverse in one lesson. If you really really bad and built up a bit of a complex about it, might take two max.

Position on straight - simple, stay left - 1 meter out from parked cars etc etc

Just one more thing I remebered which seemed totally out of kilter to me and it was in realtion to the handbrake. the instructor I just had had me take my handbrake off on a slope before I had found my bite point. I learned to find the appropiate bite point for the slope and let off the handbrake asnd as it reach the bottom increase the revs and move off.
The way this guy has me doing it I feel I might start to roll before I find the bite point.

Alanstrainor

Greenmachine wrote: »

Just one more thing I remebered which seemed totally out of kilter to me and it was in realtion to the handbrake. the instructor I just had had me take my handbrake off on a slope before I had found my bite point. I learned to find the appropiate bite point for the slope and let off the handbrake asnd as it reach the bottom increase the revs and move off.
The way this guy has me doing it I feel I might start to roll before I find the bite point.

That sounds very odd indeed! Surely just releasing the clutch without having your foot at the biting point would result in the car rolling backwards?!?!
The best way of doing it is: While the car is stopped on a hill. Find the biting point and give the car a bit of revs(The amount will depend on a lot of things, the car, gradient of hill, number of passengers/luggage) until the bonnet raises slightly, and release the handbrake and off you go.

Greenmachine

Alanstrainor wrote: »

That sounds very odd indeed! Surely just releasing the clutch without having your foot at the biting point would result in the car rolling backwards?!?!
The best way of doing it is: While the car is stopped on a hill. Find the biting point and give the car a bit of revs(The amount will depend on a lot of things, the car, gradient of hill, number of passengers/luggage) until the bonnet raises slightly, and release the handbrake and off you go.

This was the biggy and I forgot to mention it in my original post.
My original instructor spent time with on a hill I suggested we use near the hydro electric palnt in leixlip. Basically we would stop I would find my biting point and let the handbrake off. I was doing it so when I let the handbrake off. I neither rolled then moved forward, then on cue let it out a little, then on cue bring it in just enough to stop then. I ahd clutch control down a cinch. My clutch control was off a little when I satrted again after 5/6 weeks off with no driving between lessons. It was near perfect by the end of the two hour lesson. That's not me being smug. I have a full license on a bike over four so I know what a smooth gear change is. Plenty of time in the lesson where he would ask me to fo into 3 or into 4th and I would already be in it.

Alanstrainor

Ah ye, i found that full license or not, if i'm out of the car for a few weeks, it takes a bit to get back into the swing of the clutch.

Greenmachine

Alanstrainor wrote: »

Ah ye, i found that full license or not, if i'm out of the car for a few weeks, it takes a bit to get back into the swing of the clutch.

That makes me feel more confident because my only experience is during lessons.

J_R

Greenmachine wrote: »

That makes me feel more confident because my only experience is during lessons.

Hi,

Might explain why you are now cutting out when you did not with the old woman. Different cars ???

Some cars are almost impossible to stall - why some instructors use certain makes/models. Totally unnecessary to give them gas (trottle) before moving off. Others not happy at all, unless they get that little extra power.

Give the car gas. You are asking the car to do some work, give it the juice to do so. Is also easier to find the "bite" point due to louder noise from engine.