3rd McCain-Obama Debate 15 October

Black Swan

is_that_so wrote: »

Neither Obama nor McCain have shown anything that could be remotely perceived as leadership in the current crisis, a crisis that will still be around come Jan 20th and one most likely to dominate the first 100 days of the Presidency and far beyond.

Unfortunately, with the American two-party system, you have to chose between unqualified celebrity "R" or unqualified celebrity "D" when picking the next "American Idol" for the White House. And to vote for a token third party candidate is to delude yourself that such an option is realistic.

Just observe the vids on presidential campaign stops. Listen to the chanting, shouting, and mood of the crowd, and you'll see that a large number of these people are acting like celebrity fans, not thinking voters, akin to the hysteria of a rock-and-roll or heavy metal concert or rave (with many fans zoned-out on booze or drugs).

This election has demonstrated how flawed their form of democracy is in terms of selecting candidates for the two highest offices. Just look at who was chosen to be a candidate for the primary elections of both parties, and the flaws really stand out. The average American voter has no real input in terms of who runs for the primaries. Essentially, they are given a choice to vote for this connected candidate vs other connected candidates, but are not invited into the smoke filled rooms that decide who will run in the primaries in the first place.

That's how they get two very under-qualified candidates on the two major party presidential platforms, Obama and Palin? Or McCain, who should really be thinking about retiring at age 72, and will probably have to allow terribly unprepared and weird "Northern Exposure" Palin to take over before the first 4 year term expires? The only candidate that I think is remotely qualified is Biden, but he is so boring that he could not win by himself.

Trojan

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

The only candidate that I think is remotely qualified is Biden, but he is so boring that he could not win by himself.

Agreed with the first part, saddened by the 2nd. Surely if GWB can win, Biden could do it?

Black Swan

Trojan wrote: »

Agreed with the first part, saddened by the 2nd. Surely if GWB can win, Biden could do it?

I'll have to hand it to you Trojan, GWB is probably one of the most boring presidential speakers I've heard, and filled with gaff "Bushisms." I just cannot wait to see the film "W" directed by Oliver Stone! It will be like a 2 hour SNL and humourous indeed!

Synopsis:
"Josh Brolin stars as George W. Bush in this Oliver Stone biopic that traces the head of state's rise to power from a privileged alcoholic to a born-again Christian whose belief in religious destiny helped move him to the top ranks of political power. Co-written by Stanley G. Weiser, Bush is produced by fellow Stone collaborators Moritz Borman and Jon Kilik, with Elizabeth Banks co-starring as the first lady, James Cromwell as the elder President Bush, Ellen Burstyn as Barbara Bush and Richard Dreyfuss as Vice President Dick Cheney. ~ Jeremy Wheeler, All Movie Guide"

Source: http://movies.msn.com/movies/movie-synopsis/w.2/

brianthebard

Ludo wrote: »

All this media looking for racial slurs was bound to happen when the first black candidate is involved. Anything and everything said will be examined in these days of 24 hour news cycles and they have to come up with something to talk about.

Its not something confined to the campaign, I remember a few years ago a government official (I think it was a senator) got in a lot of trouble for using the word niggardly. They are hyper sensitive about that sort of thing. (will search for an article now)

edit: in my searching, I found another McCain gaff tar baby

Manic Moran

I have to say every time I hear yet another plan from Obama, the hapless Baldric and his cunning plans spring to mind.

I don't know if I'd go quite that far, it's not as if his plans are hapless, but I am bemused by the fact that he's coming out with new plans every couple of days. Make a decision and stick with it. McCain's doing it a bit as well, but not to the same extent. Or at least, not that I've noticed, though that might just be because I've heard more Obama on the radio than McCain.

As for the debate, if they keep trotting out the same lines as they used before (especially if they keep repeating figures that independent verification sites have demonstrated to be wrong or misleading), I'm going to hit something. Or shoot something, I just bought a brick of 200 rounds of 7.62mm NATO (My part to keep the economy going). Give us something useful, something specific, and something accurate, please.

NTM

Black Swan

As a reminder, the last debate is Wednesday, 15 October 9PM EST (New York), 6PM PST (California) time, and in the wee hours in Ireland 2AM 16 October. Does anyone think it will be any different than the first two presidential debates?

phoebeclark

Don't really anticipate the last debate that much.

Ludo

Only hope of fireworks is if this happens:

McCain's Transition Chief Lobbied for Saddam Hussein

The person charged with planning the McCain administration, William Timmons, lobbied for Saddam Hussein in an effort to get the international community off his back. Obama challenged McCain to talk about William Ayers to his face at the debate tonight and McCain accepted the challenge. What was Obama thinking? Maybe he will bring up Timmons and point that he (Obama) was 8 years old and living in Indonesia when Ayers was planting crude bombs but McCain knowingly chose Saddam Hussein's lobbyist for an important job in his campaign. There could be fireworks if Obama brings this up.

He could also mention Libby.

FrankGrimes

I'm sure Obama could also dig out McCain's involvement in the Contras in the 80s if he wanted to go down that route, but I'd prefer to see this campaign get back to focusing on policies and ability to be honest.

Ludo

FrankGrimes wrote: »

I'm sure Obama could also dig out McCain's involvement in the Contras in the 80s if he wanted to go down that route, but I'd prefer to see this campaign get back to focusing on policies and ability to be honest.

I fully agree about policies..BUT McCain is not going to win on policies he needs to do something. IF he goes down the Ayers route then he leaves himself wide open to the exact same being said about himself. Is eh that silly...guess we will find out.

Hobbes

Ludo wrote: »

Only hope of fireworks is if this happens:
He could also mention Libby.

I don't think Obama will bring it up at all and I know McCain is never going to put himself into a position now where Obama will be forced to mention it. Especially since any attack on Obama in that regards has been giving a negative result with the voters.

is_that_so wrote: »

Plans built on quicksand serve no purpose.

Can you be a bit more detailed as to what you mean in regards to which plan and you believe they won't work? That website is also kept up to date.

So, where is the reporting of all the HATE on the part of Obama supporters? Let me guess, it doesn’t exist? Hmmmm, I guess Obama supporters are all sensible, tolerant, upstanding people, void of any prejudice and bigotry? I think not!

Oh it exists alright. I even saw a recent picture of Obama supporters with T-Shirts of "Palin is a C**T" on the front.

What sets it apart is that McCains campaign has been (up to recently) actively pushing supporters to be aggressive. That video you linked to just reinforces that.

Where as Obama made it quite clear to those canvassing for him not to do the same to McCain.

Overheal

Ludo wrote: »

I fully agree about policies..BUT McCain is not going to win on policies he needs to do something. IF he goes down the Ayers route then he leaves himself wide open to the exact same being said about himself. Is eh that silly...guess we will find out.

rumours abound that he will do what his voters want, and thats go after the ayers issue tonight.

http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2008/10/15/mccain_hints_he_may_raise_obama_ayers_ties_in_tonights_debate/

McCain will have to be careful not to lose his temper at the debate though. With them being able to directly argue with eachother again that is. In the first debate he spent half his time grinding his teeth and trying to make it look like a smile: that same look your parents might get before they throw the kitchen table across the room after you've embarrassed them in front of guests.

Hobbes

Overheal wrote: »

rumours abound that he will do what his voters want, and thats go after the ayers issue tonight.

Lazy voters! He has already answered this issue months ago.

Overheal

Hobbes wrote: »

Lazy voters! He has already answered this issue months ago.

...when 80% of voters werent paying a blind eye. not everyone has had the time or energy to keep tabs on this 2 year escapade.

Black Swan

"But in recent days, Mr. McCain and Ms. Palin have scaled back their attacks on Mr. Obama, although Mr. McCain suggested he might aggressively take on Mr. Obama in Wednesday’s debate."

Source:http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27188680/

If McCain is aggressive about economic and health care issues, rather than to attack Obama's character, would it work?

If the recent polls are any measure, it would seem that the Ayers attacks against Obama's character by McCain and Palin over the past couple of weeks have backfired?

Overheal

If McCain does (and I think he will) go after the Ayers issue, he will also have to have prepared a credible defense against all of the questionable associations he has kept over the years as well. Which, according to one comment on the link I posted above:

that means Obama can bring up McCain Transition Chief, William Timmons' five years as a lobbyist for SADDAM HUSSEIN, and McCain's own relationships with Charles Keating, Gordon Liddy - the convicted Watergate felon, the Contras - the murderous Nicaraguan terrorists...to name but a few.
Should be interesting.

Galvasean

2AM? I have work at 8am. Guess I'll have to read up about this one in the papers. Pity, I would have liked to see it. Could be a fascinating encounter.

I think McCain needs to perform much more than Obama. He needs to make a big impact in this debate to turn things around. Obama on the other hand only needs to hold him at bay and not say anything stupid.

Overheal

Galvasean wrote: »

2AM? I have work at 8am. Guess I'll have to read up about this one in the papers. Pity, I would have liked to see it. Could be a fascinating encounter.

early morning? 4AM Powernap??

Black Swan

Overheal wrote: »

If McCain does (and I think he will) go after the Ayers issue, he will also have to have prepared a credible defense against all of the questionable associations he has kept over the years as well. Which, according to one comment on the link I posted above:

No, I do not believe that Obama will tit-for-tat the mud slinging if McCain brings up Ayers. On the contrary, he will try to appear presidential, as in the last two debates, and rise above such pettiness, pointing out that the American people have serious economic and health concerns not addressed by personal attacks. If Obama does this, Ayers character assassination comments just may blow up in McCain's face, as they appeared to have over the past 2 weeks, if the polls are any measure?

For some reason I am getting the impression that many of the still undecided voters may actually be waiting for one of the candidates to address specific measures of how to pull America out of this financial meltdown, and will vote accordingly? Could they be more of the thinkers, and not the ones that have been hysterically cheering for one side or the other since this campaign began?

Pocono Joe

Two things I would want out of McCain in tonight’s debate (I won’t hold my breath though).

One.
The ban on offshore drilling has expired, which recently happened after Bush lifted the Executive Order banning it. I want McCain to give, and get a commitment from Obama in the event of an Obama win, to allow offshore drilling. As part of our efforts to gain energy independence that will take decades, we must continue to support our needs as alternative energy technology and resources slowly come online. Therefore McCain and Obama needs to commit to using all their powers, including the power of Veto, to stop any legislation that would come from a far-left controlled Congress committed to stopping offshore drilling. In addition, Obama (and McCain) would need to commit to not execute another Executive Order (which comes from the President) banning offshore drilling.

Two.
McCain needs to demand a complete investigation to our current financial crisis. He said he would "name names" when it came to government abuses. As our government did with Enron, we need to go after executives who made off with millions (from questionable business practices) from AIG, Lehman, other public companies, also Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac. In addition investigations and legal action need to take place against any politicians who failed to protect the people of the United States by their stupidity, greed, corruption, or questionable political donations. And I’m talking about people like Barney Frank and Chris Dodd, and other Democrats and Republicans who fought efforts from some politicians like B Clinton, GW Bush and J McCain in their efforts for tighter scrutiny and regulation of these lending institutions. They both talk about CHANGE... lets see some!


Side note… Has anybody seen the Drudge special report today? It sort of looks like they confirmed what I have been saying all along – that the mainstream media is merely scribes of the Obama campaign. Seems early today Obama’s Press Secretary Sean Smith issued a set of debate 'talking points' to the media. And the memo oddly mirrors much of today’s press analysis and theme of the current campaign. Looks like the left leaning media has finally found to get back to profitability… fire all their reporters and writers and just reprint the Obama campaign’s information. BRILLIANT! http://www.drudgereport.com/flashotp.htm

turbosnow

I am surprised to see such a lively debate going on here about the U.S. electoral process. I am an expat living in Dublin and have to vote via absentee ballot.

I will be staying up to watch the debate, as I have for the other 2 presidential debates and even the VP one. I have to admit though that I hope that he format for this debate is a bit more lively as the last one was hard to stay awake for. The truth is that most voters are decided at this point and it is quite unlikely that either candidate will make any dramatic change in the election as a result of this debate. All Obama needs to do is keep up with his consistent message of competency on economic issues and he will win the election imho.
I do not think that McCain will be able to perform so brilliantly that people will change their minds about which group of people they trust the most with the economy. Do not fool yourself, when it comes down to it people vote with their wallets and Obama is much more appealing to the majority of the country on that basis.

I am very interested to hear all of the bashing of the "mainstream liberal media", The reality is that the media wants to tell people what they want to hear so that they can sell more stuff for their advertisers. People want to hear about Obama because he make them feel hopeful. People want to bash Palin because they feel insulted by her being chosen, and doubtful of McCains choice. It is as simple as that, Obama is more popular so he gets better press. I personally think that he is more popular because for once Americans are thinking about what is right for the country. But then again I have been an Obama supporter since the beginning so I am probably a mouthpiece for his campaign:)

Black Swan

Pocono Joe wrote: »

I want McCain to give, and get a commitment from Obama in the event of an Obama win, to allow offshore drilling.

Although Florida has agreed to allow offshore drilling, no matter what the presidential candidates say or promise about California, forget it! The Republican Governator Arnie has spoken on several occasions that there will be no offshore drilling, period, and most Californians agree with him. He is the real maverick in the Republican party.

When the US consumes 25% of the world's oil, and only has 3% in reserves, it does it make sense to "Drill Baby Drill?" I think not! I saw a GMC completely hydrogen fuel cell SUV zip by me on the road the other day, and the only emission was water, not poisonous gases. So what's all this talk about "alternatives" when I have seen them on the road already? The US does not need Middle Eastern, Russian, or South American hydrogen, cause it's in the air we breathe.

No, "Drill Baby Drill" is an oil lobby argument that contributes to poisoning our atmosphere and the greed of Big Oil interests. Why is the US relying on old tech to solve their energy problems of today and the future? If they took the 10 years it would take to realize the small benefits from offshore drilling and applied all those monies, research, and resources to the hydrogen fuel cell car I just saw, then the problem would be solved, and the dependence on foreign oil would end. So why cannot the Super Power exhibit super intelligence and come up with new tech in place of old tech? After all, "The Stone Age did not end because we ran out of stone!"

Pocono Joe wrote:

McCain needs to demand a complete investigation to our current financial crisis.

Including big oil, and how the price per barrel can go from $20 to over $100 in 5 years? And why during this economic crisis US oil corporations have reported historic profits? Does anyone see the inconsistency in this, or the irony? Investigate Big Oil too! "Follow the money," and OilGate will be revealed.

Overheal

But he wont demand any investigation. He'd probably set up some sham of a comittee charged with investigating the matter and they would turn up nothing of substance while people get chronic deja vu of "I cannot recall".

Pocono Joe

Air Products is in our back yard. I have friends and relatives that work there. I’ll let you in on a secret about hydrogen. Unless someone comes up with some technological innovation, that isn’t even envisioned as of yet, to extract hydrogen in a economical way, hydrogen cannot and will never be something utilized en mass.

Overheal

Pocono Joe wrote: »

Air Products is in our back yard. I have friends and relatives that work there. I’ll let you in on a secret about hydrogen. Unless someone comes up with some technological innovation, that isn’t even envisioned as of yet, to extract hydrogen in a economical way, hydrogen cannot and will never be something utilized en mass.

you mean the way they showed us how to separate hydrogen from water in science class wasnt economical?

Cadet?

Let's get ready to ruuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumble!

thebouldwhacker

here we gooooooo.....

gonna be sleepy @ work tomorrow buy who cares, gonna watch the whole thinzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz:D

Podge_irl

Overheal wrote: »

you mean the way they showed us how to separate hydrogen from water in science class wasnt economical?

I presume you used electrolysis to do that in science, which is not a particularly economical way to seperate hydrogen and oxygen as it requires a rather large amount of electricity. I don't know a fantastic amount about this area though, so there are probably many methods out there I don't know about.

Overheal

thats the one.

LOOK! McCain went and shook Obama's hand! ;_;

Overheal

is he teary-eyed? wha? gotta love 1080p CNNHD

edit: mccain is a blink-machine! Goodbye, wink o_0