The Games Category: Discuss

Dont be at yourself

And you think shoving everyone into a big 'ol melting pot will actually create a 'community' ?
If you're not getting a community going in the smaller more defined forums you've zero chance in the big super mega ones in my view.

History would seem to prove you wrong. The games board and community prospered when there only a handful of boards. The more boards that were created, the weaker the community became.

Spear

I would suggest Poker and it's sub components be moved out into it's own category. It's busy, and self contained with it's own community, with little or no crossover to the rest of the games category, and should be able to stand on it's own.

Dyr

Dustaz wrote: »

games.boards.ie

PLEASE.

Thats what I'd like to see anyway

Sweet baby jesus and the orphans, nonono. No. Another spinoff area of boards that's a complete graveyard, have you visited boards.org.uk recently? Or the Biki? Social.Boards.ie? Nope, and neither has anyone else I'll vouch. You dont promote a community by sticking out the back beside the bins.


Also to whoever suggested latest release: why? two months later games are no longer a latest release so why give it a forum? Let it live on the mai forum while its current and then drop to oblivion

Rev Hellfire

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

History would seem to prove you wrong. The games board and community prospered when there only a handful of boards. The more boards that were created, the weaker the community became.

People keep hankering back to the good 'ol days, they're gone.

The situation now is very different from that of even 5 years ago, back then there was a limited number of games and therefore a less fractured community.

But I'll admit people do look for different things from community sites such as these, big generic forums really hold no appeal for me, but I can see that some people prefer them. Its something we'll have to agree to disagree on.

Retr0gamer

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

I still don't see the problem with the same topic existing on multiple forums. Quite frankly if I want information on game for a console I known, I'll post in the consoles forum and not the games forum. I'm not interested in hearing what its like on other platforms its the views of the people who have the same console as me that interest me. You'll simply not be able to make it work.

Well in this day and age whether the game is on the 360, PC or PS3 there will be very little difference. It will play exactly the same and look practically the same other than a slight increase on the PC. Why would an xbox players opinion of a game be uninteresting to a PS3 players opinion when they are playing the exact same game.

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

The situation now is very different from that of even 5 years ago, back then there was a limited number of games and therefore a less fractured community.

Things aren't different from what they were 5 years or more ago. We've always had multiple gaming platforms and the rate of games being released is the same as it's always been. In fact with practically everything becoming multiplatform with very few exclusives and no discernable difference between the formats it makes separate console forums even more obsolete. If I want to know about a game I want to know what all gamers think about it and not have to look at 3+ separate forums with the different threads discussing the same thing. Are PS, xbox and PC fans so different in their opinions that we need separate forums to discuss the same game for each group. Not to mention there's a lot of people that own multiple formats.

It's become really annoying as a person who owns all formats to discuss games. For example I'm really interested in Dead Space but haven't bothered to even look at the threads on the games in a long time. I believe there are 3 long threads on the game in PS, Xbox and Games all with the same info and I really couldn't be bothered checking through them all. Having multiple threads on the same topic is just silly when there is no reason since it's basically discussing the same game.

I'm repeating myself but the main problem is the console forums. You are dividing all gamers into 4 neat little piles and annoying any multiformat owning gamers that have to check through the 4 main forums just to get the info they want.The separate game series forums are no where near as damaging.

KevIRL

Spear wrote: »

I would suggest Poker and it's sub components be moved out into it's own category. It's busy, and self contained with it's own community, with little or no crossover to the rest of the games category, and should be able to stand on it's own.

^^^^

This would be nice.

Crash

Would it fit in Rec as opposed to games, do you think Kev?

Sabre0001

Would fit as there is already a Poker(Link) under Rec...

Overheal

some might consider it a sport

Anti

Overheal wrote: »

some might consider it a sport

Never heard of a sport before where you can sit on your arse while some skank brings you a drink.

Poker should have had its own forum/subforum for a long time.

Cunny-Funt

So how about more genre specific?

*************


Action/Adventure/Horror/Stealth
Arcade & Retro
Chess
Competitive Gaming
Console Hardware discussion (for specific console related issues/exclusive games)
Modding
Nintendo
Playstation
Sega
Xbox
First Person Shooters
Fighting Games
Flight Simulators
Game Awards
Game Editing
Game Reviews
Games General Chat
Games Workshop
LAN Parties
Massively Multiplayer
EvE Online
Warhammer Online
Warhammer Guilds
World of Warcraft
Musical Games
Poker
Holdem'
Omaha
Tournaments and events
Online Tournaments
Racing Sims
Roleplaying
Sports
Strategy
Webgames

*****************************

Thoughts?

Dont be at yourself

As a gamer with a wide-ranging taste in games, I think the idea of genre segregation is a complete non-starter.

This year alone, I've enjoyed Wipeout, Guitar Hero, Dead Space, Uncharted, FIFA & Pro Evo, Bioshock... all of these games fall into various different genres - and yet, I'm sure I'm not alone in having many of them sitting on my shelf.

And that's where the idea of segregation by genre falls down. To discuss my videogaming interests on boards.ie, I would have to visit as many as 20 different boards in your system outlined above. It's a very slight improvement over the current 50 or so, but it's still overly complicated and counter-productive.

There's also the awkward questions raised by the blurring of genres, which results in the already too-prevalent problem of overlapping discussion areas amongst the boards. Take Bioshock as an example: does it go in Action/Adventure/Horror? Hmm, how about First Person Shooter? It was XBox exclusive for ages, how about the XBox board? It's got an obvious Role Playing bent in it too, so how about there? Does my post fit better on the Reviews board? How about the Games General Chat board?

Do you get my point? With a huge array of boards, there is no guarantee that I will find the right audience. And when I make my post, there is no guarantee that they will find me. What will likely happen is that either a) I wont bother to post at all, or b) I'll post, and get a tiny trickle of replies, and notice that other people are also having the same experience in their efforts to discuss the same topic on a different board.

Overheal

im very much against genre classification. Games tend to be very cross-genre, again, adding to confusion and ambiguity when posting. For example, a strategy game can also be competitive. For example, Starcraft. An adventure game could also be roleplay (Oblivion) and so forth.

quarryman

Yep, you would have more arguements over what genre a game should fall into.

Also i agree that genre splitting would probably result in even more forum hopping for most gamers. I play everything from FPS to D&D RPG, I'd be subscribing to so many forums!

Dyr

Once you stick in genres, everyone will bleedin want one. Cut it right back to the minimum for now. Its easier to add a forum that's needed than to cull one that's not.

Retr0gamer

I'm totally against genre classification as well for all the same points mentioned by nekkidbibleman.

For me just have a general games forum and a console hardware problems forum with various headings various just to discuss console hardware issues like the RROD and not console specific titles. Even though the current system is supposed to be only for console specific titles we still get 5+ threads on the latest games across different forums. If it's a game discuss it in the games forum.

And keep the sega forum!

quarryman

Can we start a new thread on this with a poll?

Ponster

quarryman wrote: »

Can we start a new thread on this with a poll?

Depends on what the questions are I suppose.

I'd wait another few days though before requesting a new thread.

Overheal

you could vote on forum structure I suppose. I left a few examples of what the restructure might look like in post #181 and #170 based on information from #167

Cunny-Funt

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

there is no guarantee that I will find the right audience. And when I make my post, there is no guarantee that they will find me. What will likely happen is that either a) I wont bother to post at all, or b) I'll post, and get a tiny trickle of replies, and notice that other people are also having the same experience in their efforts to discuss the same topic on a different board.

This is one of the main reasons WHY I'm asking for a fighting games section though. Some game genres do need their own area due to some very specific things that go with that genre that you don't see in most others.

Flight sims and racing sims and MMO's being other examples.

But it would seem that everyone agrees that getting rid of those forums that are game specific is a good idea?

Anyway have a look at this then:

*************


Arcade & Retro
Chess
Competitive Gaming
Console Hardware discussion (for specific console related issues)
Modding
Nintendo
Playstation
Sega
Xbox

Fighting Games
Flight Simulators
Game Awards
Game Editing
Game Reviews
Games
Games Workshop
LAN Parties
Massively Multiplayer
EvE Online
Warhammer Online
Warhammer Guilds
World of Warcraft

Poker
Holdem'
Omaha
Tournaments and events
Online Tournaments
Racing Sims
Sports Games
Strategy
Webgames

*****************************

I don't think totally eliminating all genre specific forums is a good either idea so keep/add ones that are really needed, and keep console talk for JUST console issues like hardware talk etc and maybe even just have the console exclusive gaming chat take place in the main game area anyway. So keep it just for hardware and troubleshooting etc. One area I was also thinking of that might be useful is a game mods area where people talk about Mods for games that are coming out or are out, but thats a discussion for another time.

Dont be at yourself

Cunny-Funt wrote:

Some game genres do need their own area due to some very specific things that go with that genre that you don't see in most others.

Can you be specific? What aspects of the Strategy, Racing or Fighting Game genres cannot be posted about in a general games forum? For the record, I have no problems with people posting any game-related topic on the Games board.

The same arguments against game-specific forums also apply to genre-specific ones. Experience has shown that segregation is killing discussion, not fostering it.

Your new forum suggestion is dumbfounding. Forums for some genres, none for others. No rhyme, no reason, no structure. No answers to any of the real problems affecting the category.

Overheal

Flight Sims? Dead Forum. Tragically, seeing how I've just got into FSX, but it doesnt need its own section.

Cunny-Funt

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Can you be specific? What aspects of the Strategy, Racing or Fighting Game genres cannot be posted about in a general games forum? For the record, I have no problems with people posting any game-related topic on the Games board.

Yet you understand MMO's? I assume this is cause you played an MMO. & btw I said Racing Sims, not racing. There are very specific topics in those particular game genres that would not belong in a casual general chat area. Stuff like frame data for specific characters in specific fighting games to custom set ups and sticks to build order and unit stats, early game late game strats and so forth for specific factions in specific RTS's, custom home set ups for simulators, avionics discussions and comparisons , wheels, joystick modification. They are niche genres and a spot for them is beneficial for the Irish gaming community that are into that genre. Just cause some would not be massively active doesn't mean they are useless, its just the nature of the genre. An irish flight sim fan might be looking for a dublin airport mod and have no probs finding the thread on the flight sim section but if it had been posted in a casual area it'd be gone, and probably never even be posted in the 1st place.

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

Your new forum suggestion is dumbfounding. Forums for some genres, none for others. No rhyme, no reason, no structure. No answers to any of the real problems affecting the category.

Dumbfounding that you can't see where I'm coming from. There are types of games that need it and types that don't, the more popular FPS action adventure etc style games for ALL platforms ALL discussed in the same area, IS a an answer to the problems affecting the category.

Eliminating everything and just having "Gaming" is far too drastic and will damage some game genres that you just so happened to not play/enjoy. Plus damage them from an irish community perspective also.

But I don't expect you to agree. I'm proposing a middle ground but you want to go all out. We'll agree to disagree I suppose.

Dyr

Bear in mind that im typing this with a flight yoke under me elbows and a set of rudder pedals under me feet..... two words: Search function

Dont be at yourself

Cunny-Funt wrote:

Yet you understand MMO's? I assume this is cause you played an MMO.

I don't even understand what you're trying to say here. Have you been drinking?

& btw I said Racing Sims, not racing.

There is no need for a Racing Sims board. This is evidenced by the existing Racing Sims board.

There are very specific topics in those particular game genres that would not belong in a casual general chat area. Stuff like frame data for specific characters in specific fighting games to custom set ups and sticks to build order and unit stats, early game late game strats and so forth for specific factions in specific RTS's, custom home set ups for simulators, avionics discussions and comparisons , wheels, joystick modification.

All of these topics are welcome on the Games board. I encourage posters to post about them. The games board is not exclusively the home to vapid talk about the latest EA blockbuster. It is about videogames - all shapes, all sizes, all aspects.

They are niche genres and a spot for them is beneficial for the Irish gaming community that are into that genre. Just cause some would not be massively active doesn't mean they are useless, its just the nature of the genre.

The Irish gaming community is a relatively small one. The Irish gaming community which uses boards.ie is even smaller. As it stands, discussion is barely ticking over across the forums. The volume and quality of posts has gone down in inverse proportions to the amount of segregation. Adding new boards isn't beneficial to the Irish gaming community. It is detrimental. The name of the game should be consolidation, not expansion.

An irish flight sim fan might be looking for a dublin airport mod and have no probs finding the thread on the flight sim section but if it had been posted in a casual area it'd be gone, and probably never even be posted in the 1st place.

The search function. A board should not be a museum to the occasional useful thread at the expense of discussion. Such threads are preserved in the searchable archive. A board's raison d'etre is discussion, pure and simple.

Dumbfounding that you can't see where I'm coming from. There are types of games that need it and types that don't, the more popular FPS action adventure etc style games for ALL platforms ALL discussed in the same area, IS a an answer to the problems affecting the category.

Frankly, I don't see the distinction with popular FPS/action/adventure games and niche flight sims or fighting games in terms of where they should be discussed. Can you explain why it's ok to post a thread in the games forum about - for example - how best to upgrade a weapon in Dead Space, but to talk about a similarly in-depth topic about Street Fighter, I need to do so on a dedicated Fighting Games forum?

Eliminating everything and just having "Gaming" is far too drastic and will damage some game genres that you just so happened to not play/enjoy. Plus damage them from an irish community perspective also.

It's nothing to do with what I play or enjoy. Indeed, it is because the vast majority of gamers play and enjoy a wide range of games the the notion of genre segregation is so galling.

monument

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

There are very specific topics in those particular game genres that would not belong in a casual general chat area.

What on earth do you mean casual general chat area?

It's general all right, but a hell of a lot of hardcore gamers post on the main games board.

Rev Hellfire

monument wrote: »

What on earth do you mean casual general chat area?

It's general all right, but a hell of a lot of hardcore gamers post on the main games board.

What he means is a the big mixing pot of games discussed in one uber-forum and I totally agree with him.
The assumption here is that if we mix these forums up into these generic catch all forums it becomes better because there's more activity.

That will probably prove to be not the case, these forums (ie. Strategy, racing, etc) might have limited activity (but not total inactivity) but that does not reduce their utility. Any topic raised on a strategy game will quickly get drowned in such a forum and if its not on the first page it doesn't exist.

In fact I suspect if you remove the strategy forum you'll find that conversations on that will dry up and possibly move elsewhere.
A look at the unreal forum and the effect of unreal.ie starting should prove a cautionary tale, communities forum around games and if they move off boards there's a risk they'll pull quite a load of traffic with them.

Dyr

The traffic levels on sims, racing sims and strategy, is rated as low, dead and dead so this discussion is indicitive of the whole problem of people wanting forums that just arent used. The only use such sub-forums have is places to leave stickys and FAQs and that aint enough to justify their existence imo

If you take overheals list below and cull every forum that's low and dead (and moved the poker forums) then the category would look like below, even if you leave the seasonally busy forums (stuff like GTA or COD I guess) this still looks more manageable:



Arcade & Retro <<Moderate>>
Competitive Gaming <<Moderate>>
Console Modding <<High>>
Nintendo <<High>>
Playstation <<High>>
Xbox <<Very High>>
Final Fantasy <<Moderate>>
Football Manager <<Moderate>>
Games <<Very High>>
Massively Multiplayer <<Moderate>>
EvE Online <<Moderate>>
Warhammer Online <<Moderate>>
World of Warcraft <<High>>
Pro Evolution Soccer <<Very High>>

Ponster

I'm glad that this topic has generated a lot of interest and people are willing to give their opinions but a lot of people have lost track with the actual points of the OP :

There are too many overlapping forums

If we removed the console forums would we still have overlapping threads (i.e. threads about Game XYZ posted in several forums at once?

How could removing non-console forums, no matter what their traffic, help boards.ie?

- There are too many forums that don't warrant their own forum

Based on traffic this would seem to be the case. Though at some stage in the past they did deserve their own forums. And a new game that comes out tomorrow and generates a certain % of traffic will probably get it's own forum. I hope people don't believe that whatever decisions a a result of this thread will result with a fixed number of games forums forever.

- Moderation needs to be stricter in moving threads to more suitable boards

Agreed yet feedback isn't exactly the place for this issue. A thread in mods forum and the problem is solved.

Dont be at yourself

Ponster wrote:

If we removed the console forums would we still have overlapping threads (i.e. threads about Game XYZ posted in several forums at once?

How could removing non-console forums, no matter what their traffic, help boards.ie?

Removing the console forums is not a magic bullet, but it would be a significant step in the right direction. It still leaves a number of over-lapping boards, most of which are Forums Where Threads Go To Die due to inactivity. If we re-integrate these boards into a smaller number of general boards, it will eliminate the issue of overlapping areas of discussion.

Based on traffic this would seem to be the case. Though at some stage in the past they did deserve their own forums. And a new game that comes out tomorrow and generates a certain % of traffic will probably get it's own forum.

That's really what has got us into this mess. Forums were created without any real guidelines or criteria, and often once a certain amount of interest was shown, it was created. Most of these inevitably died a death after the novelty wore off. If we get a Fighting Games board, or a LittleBigPlanet board, history will repeat itself.

Somebody mentioned the idea of a separate board to the Games board specifically for discussing New Releases. I think that's a very workable idea. It gives gamers a place to talk indepth about the current flavour-of-the-month, and it leaves more room on the Games board for all those other threads.

Agreed yet feedback isn't exactly the place for this issue. A thread in mods forum and the problem is solved.

Frankly, I'm hesitant to cause upheaval across the Games category until either a consensus with the forum regulars or the admins is reached. Feedback is the best place to explore all arguments for and against.