The Games Category: Discuss

monument

Rev Hellfire wrote: »

What he means is a the big mixing pot of games discussed in one uber-forum and I totally agree with him.
The assumption here is that if we mix these forums up into these generic catch all forums it becomes better because there's more activity. ....

I actually agree with a lot of what you and him were saying. And I partly agree with the assumption, but again note it's not a one size fits all solution. My point was -- and maybe I focsed on the word 'casual' too much -- that the general games board is far from "casual", and there is and more so has been in-depth talk.

I'm not suggesting a scrapping of all the sub forums, in fact I'm mainly just in favour of scrapping the 'console' sub forums. I think they are a failed experiment which have damaged the quality general forum (and a lot of people said they would at the time of set up).

But in saying that I don't think the mods of the games general should have to strictly move threads of X game or genre into their name sake forum. It should be up to the users if they want to start a topic in the general board or else where.

Cunny-Funt

Thank god I'm not the only one. And no I didn't mean casual as in its only for casual gamers I meant casual in that thats all that could really be discussed there.

And in reply to the "use the search" function. 1st, I made the point that it would probably not even be posted in the 1st place if all there was , only a general gaming chat area.

2nd , what if I wanted a Dublin airport mod but didn't know one existed so just came on to read what other irish flight sim fans were talking about. I'd never see it.

NekkidBibleMan you keep talking about all the different games you play , yet if you played flight sims, fighting games RTS's MMO's etc like I have you'd understand where I'm coming from rather then accuse me of being drunk.

A flight sim section that's not massively active versus a random EA blockbuster FPS section that's not massively active are two very different things. The flight sim section would be FAR less deserving of a culling due to the nature of the genre.

You think killing off those types of areas will increase talk of those games? It'll kill it dead. The niche games having their own areas increases activity for those games while the blockbuster games having their own areas does not.

There's a difference. This is why I'm asking for a fighting game area, so we can get lots of discussion of fighting games on boards.

I hope you understand me now, if you don't. Ah well I feckin tried didn't I?

Ponster

Cunny-Funt wrote: »

There's a difference. This is why I'm asking for a fighting game area, so we can get lots of discussion of fighting games on boards.

There are usually 2 different schools of Admining


1/ Before a forum is created there must be a valid reason to do so and that reason is usually a lot of existing posts/traffic. If a root forum is being overloaded with threads all about the same topic then a new forum is created for the benefit of everyone.


2/ A forum is created in the belief and hope that it will generate extra posts that don't already exist.


For example we have very few folk music posts on boards. From experience my belief is that by creating a folk music section it will in itself generate new traffic/posts while the other opinion is that if there are no posts on folk music then why create a new forum?

Yes, we need a cull on the existing games forums.

No, we need to remove as much as possible leaving GAMES as the main folder for all discussion.

Yes, forums should be removed and created as demand sees fit

Dont be at yourself

I understand where you're coming from.

Some game genres are incredibly popular and will find an audience regardless, whereas others are a lot more niche, and so will struggle to find an audience. I'm of the same opinion.

However, our opinions diverge when it comes to solution for this problem. Our solutions are diametrically opposed. You are in favour of giving such niche genres their own forum, in the hope that the community will prosper undisturbed by the rest. I propose the opposite, that in order for such niche games to find their audience, they are better served by maximum exposure: ie alongside more popular games in a heavily-trafficked Games board.

Why? Because history has shown us that the 'Build It And Then Will Come' approach to creating new forums for niche genres has been a disaster. We built them, but they didn't come. While the theory may be sound, in reality the boards simply don't draw the audience that they really should. If the Games board was swamped with posts on Racing Sims, Fighting Games or whathaveyou, then there may be a case for a separate board. As it stands, it's just repeating past mistakes.

And for what its worth, I enthusiastically play fighting games, RTS and racing sims. I understand that there are many various in depth topics up for discussion. What I don't understand is why they cannot be discussed on a more general Games board.

If you want to talk about these genres, post a thread on the games board - you'll reach a wider audience than you would on a dedicated board, and you may find responses from posters who are enthusiastic about these games, but not so enthusiastic about browsing a dozen boards to talk about them.

Ponster

NekkidBibleMan wrote: »

You are in favour of giving such niche genres their own forum, in the hope that the community will prosper undisturbed by the rest.

From my experience on boards.ie it's not just the people who are interested in a game that will demand a forum but everyone who isn't interested in that game who would prefer that they took their discussion elsewhere.

If a spanking new game comes out tomorrow that people have been waiting for for months. It's a FPS and there are several Irish clans. It's buggy as hell and people need help in getting it to work and keeping it working.
All this could in theory generate enough threads to keep page 1 of a general games forum full of nothing but that game. This I'm sure, based on history, will just annoy everyone who doesn't play that game and wish they had their own forum where they could take 'their' discussions.

I propose the opposite, that in order for such niche games to find their audience, they are better served by maximum exposure: ie alongside more popular games in a heavily-trafficked Games board.

But I think that too much traffic will only result in threads being lost, sent of to page 2 and beyond and more and more members being told to 'search' because their new thread has already been repeated several times in the past. We now have a problem of several threads on the same game in the same forum but over several pages rather than several threads on the same game over several forums.

Why? Because history has shown us that the 'Build It And Then Will Come' approach to creating new forums for niche genres has been a disaster. We built them, but they didn't come. While the theory may be sound, in reality the boards simply don't draw the audience that they really should.

Hmmm...that does sound like a little over the top a 'disaster' ?

I think we really need to highlight 2 "issues", one which is a problem, the other less so.

If a games forum today is dead but was once active and may be active again in the future then it should remain a forum. What does the board gain by removing it? If it already has little traffic and the goal is to increase traffic to the general Games forum then it's deletion will do no good. The forum may pick up in traffic with future releases and it's presence when the traffic picks up will again justify the forums need.

I understood that the main problem was the dilution of discussion over several forums. The removal of the console forums would be a good start but I'd be keen to know what you think the next step would be?

If you want to talk about these genres, post a thread on the games board - you'll reach a wider audience than you would on a dedicated board, and you may find responses from posters who are enthusiastic about these games, but not so enthusiastic about browsing a dozen boards to talk about them.

But this is just general game talk. The forums exist for specific games talk. I would never, ever open a thread in Battlefield forum where anyone but a Battlefield player would be interested. If someone wanted to talk about FPS games and asked in Battlefield than I'd just move it to "Games"

Dont be at yourself

If a spanking new game comes out tomorrow that people have been waiting for for months. It's a FPS and there are several Irish clans. It's buggy as hell and people need help in getting it to work and keeping it working.
All this could in theory generate enough threads to keep page 1 of a general games forum full of nothing but that game. This I'm sure, based on history, will just annoy everyone who doesn't play that game and wish they had their own forum where they could take 'their' discussions.

I take your point. However, the key phrase there is in theory. In practice - as evidenced by Far Cry 2, for example, which has many talking points - discussion has naturally developed in a handful of large threads as opposed to a large number of smaller threads.

But I think that too much traffic will only result in threads being lost, sent of to page 2 and beyond and more and more members being told to 'search' because their new thread has already been repeated several times in the past. We now have a problem of several threads on the same game in the same forum but over several pages rather than several threads on the same game over several forums.

This is probably the crux issue in deciding on a shape for the games category. Nobody wants a forum that is so fast moving that lively topics are pushed off the front page. However, nobody wants a forum that is so slow-moving that there are year-old threads on the front page. There needs to be analysis of the current volume of posting across the category, and an analysis as to how much of that is cross-posting and duplication.

As I see it, a Games board, a Latest Releases board, a Online Gaming board and a Hardware board should accommodate the volume of posting comfortably without threads being pushed onto the 2nd page too quickly. I'm open to correction on this, but I don't think I'm far off.

I'll again re-iterate the point that a forum should not serve as a museum for useful threads. Either a thread is active and alive, or it rightfully should be pushed off the front page for those that are.

I think we really need to highlight 2 "issues", one which is a problem, the other less so.

If a games forum today is dead but was once active and may be active again in the future then it should remain a forum. What does the board gain by removing it? If it already has little traffic and the goal is to increase traffic to the general Games forum then it's deletion will do no good. The forum may pick up in traffic with future releases and it's presence when the traffic picks up will again justify the forums need.

I understood that the main problem was the dilution of discussion over several forums. The removal of the console forums would be a good start but I'd be keen to know what you think the next step would be?

The two problems are inter-linked.

1) There are too many forums, too many of which are inactive
2) There are too many forums, leading to duplication of topics

A given forum may contribute to one or both of these problems.

You ask what harm is there in a forum lying inactive, in the hope that traffic will pick up again. But that same logic could be applied to virtually any dead forum on boards. I'm of the opinion that clearing out the deadwood can only be a good thing. It will focus discussion back to more active boards.

I understand that certain forums will only be active around the time of a new release etc. However, could this peak not equally catered for in a Latest Releases board?

You ask what the next step would be after the removal of the console forums. I can't speak for other moderators or admins, but I would be inclined to cull any forum that doesn't show real signs of an active community. Some of the MMO forums, Trophy Manager etc are deserving of dedicated fora, but there are too many that are not.

But this is just general game talk. The forums exist for specific games talk. I would never, ever open a thread in Battlefield forum where anyone but a Battlefield player would be interested. If someone wanted to talk about FPS games and asked in Battlefield than I'd just move it to "Games

I think you missed my point (which was aimed at Cunny-Funt). I have no problems if somebody decides to post a Fighting Game (for example) topic on the Games board. They'll reach more people and provoke more discussion than they would were they posting on a forum squirrelled away somewhere in the dropdown.

Ponster

NekkidBibleMan, it's Friday in Ireland. Shouldn't you be drunk by now?


> I can't speak for other moderators or admins,

I'm a Games mod. Your my chmod. Your opinion IMHO holds more weight than others.

Dont be at yourself

NekkidBibleMan, it's Friday in Ireland. Shouldn't you be drunk by now?

I need to be at my sober best to explode all my fireworks without committing GBH! Besides, it's my birthday tomorrow, so I have to save myself.

I'm a Games mod. Your my chmod. Your opinion IMHO holds more weight than others.

I don't know about that. Any change is going to affect everybody from the user all the way to the admin. The more opinions put forward, the better.

Retr0gamer

Ponster wrote: »

If a spanking new game comes out tomorrow that people have been waiting for for months. It's a FPS and there are several Irish clans. It's buggy as hell and people need help in getting it to work and keeping it working.
All this could in theory generate enough threads to keep page 1 of a general games forum full of nothing but that game. This I'm sure, based on history, will just annoy everyone who doesn't play that game and wish they had their own forum where they could take 'their' discussions.

But I think that too much traffic will only result in threads being lost, sent of to page 2 and beyond and more and more members being told to 'search' because their new thread has already been repeated several times in the past. We now have a problem of several threads on the same game in the same forum but over several pages rather than several threads on the same game over several forums.

This never used to happen before. There where a few times when there was a very big release and there were 3 threads at most on the subject but good moderation meant that similar threads were joined together. I think the only real problem could be from hardware issues cluttering up the forums like they do in the console sections at the moment which is why the hardware forums should be created.

Dustaz

Games
-PC Games
-- New releases

-Consoles
-- Console Modding

-Online Gaming
-- Competitive Gaming
-- Quake

-MMO
-- World of warcraft

- Sports
- Music Sim
- FPS
- RTS
- Lan parties




Done.

Rev Hellfire

Well since everyone else is giving their view on the possible structure for the Games category, here's how I think it should be.

Note Don't pay to much to the order here, its pretty much as I thought of them.

-Consoles
--Console Modding
--Nintendo
--Playstation
---Warhawk
--Xbox

-FPS Games
--Battlefield
--Call of Duty
--Halflife (CS, Dod, etc.)
--Halo
--OpFlash (needed?)
--Quake
--Enemy Territory (Wolfenstein) (Possibly place this under Quake)

-Games General
--Arcade & Retro
--Competitive Gaming
--Game Editing
--Soldat
--GTA Series

-Game Reviews
--Game Awards

-Lan Parties (Could go under Games General, but worth having separate perhaps?)

-Massively Multiplayer
--Eve Online
-- Lotro (this could go, its largely me, lister and cully. can move to DK)
-- Warhammer
-- World of Warcraft
-- Second Life (I know its not a mmo, but its similar enough)

-Roleplaying
--Elder Scrolls
--Final Fantasy
--Roleplaying Threads

-Real world games
--Board games (?)
--Chess
--Poker

-Simulator
--Flight Sims
--Racing Sims

-Strategy
--Command and Conquer
--Dawn of War
--Warcraft


I personally believe if things are grouped logically and visible the extra forums don't actually detract. The root forums still get flagged with the new topics from the more specialised sub-forums.
When a forum warrants been above the main category a linked forum can be used.

This would show at root as just
-Consoles
-FPS Games
-Games General
-Games Reviews
-Lan Parties
-Massively Multiplayer
-Roleplaying
-Real-world Gaming
-Simulators
-Strategy

K.O.Kiki

@Rev Hellfire:
Funny, I didn't even know this thread existed, yet I thought something very similar:
(copy-pasted from my other post)

Gamers don't, nay CAN'T like all games.
We stay exclusive, in little groups.
If you want in, being fanatical helps.

So my suggestion would be to subdivide *MORE*:

• GAMES
  • Arcade & Retro
    • Arcade cabinets
    • Fighting Games
    • Retro
  • Chess
    
  • Shooters
    • Battlefield
    • Counter-Strike
    • GTA
    • Half-Life
    • Halo
    • Metal Gear Solid
    • Quake
    • Unreal
    • Warhawk
    • Wolfenstein
  • Strategy
    • Command and Conquer
    • Magic:The Gathering
    • Other
  • Tournaments
    • LAN parties (PC)
    • Console gatherings
    • Galway LAN
  • Massively Multiplayer
    • Age of Conan
    • Eve Online
    • LotR Online
    • Second Life
    • Warhammer
    • World of Warcraft
  • Poker (leave as-is, I don't go there )
    
  • Simulators
    • Flight Sims
    • Guitar Hero
    • Racing Sims
  • Games (no, really)
    • General
    • Video Games

Sure, it looks messy -- but anybody clicking on "Games" will be redirected to a nice front-page with 9 rows, and then a few tabs (sub-forums).
Which is a hell of a lot better than the 30+ rows mess we've got going now.


(p.s.: I know I left some things out. Let the mods/admins figure that out)

Kinetic^

Arcade & Retro
Chess
Competitive Gaming
Console Hardware discussion avec Modding subforum
FPS - quake subforum (historical purposes)
Game Awards
Game Editing
Game Reviews
Games (for all other games)
Games Workshop
LAN Parties
Massively Multiplayer
Poker - Holdem' - Omaha Tournaments and events - Online Tournaments
Racing
Sports
Strategy
Webgames

condra

I think a lot of forums on boards.ie could, and should be merged.

Krieg

I think Rev Hellfire's suggested re-organisation is the best

quarryman

Krieg wrote: »

I think Rev Hellfire's suggested re-organisation is the best

I give up! Rev Hellfire's list is even more split up! An OpFlash forum? FFS.

Guys, we are trying to bring back the community element, not dilute it even more.

Arcade & Retro
Chess
Competitive Gaming
Console Hardware discussion avec Modding subforum
FPS - quake subforum (historical purposes)
Game Awards
Game Editing
Game Reviews
Games (for all other games)
Games Workshop
LAN Parties
Massively Multiplayer
Poker - Holdem' - Omaha Tournaments and events - Online Tournaments
Racing
Sports
Strategy
Webgames

This pretty close but i'd drop Racing, Sports and Strategy. Just lump them all into games.

Red Sleeping Beauty

This isn't really feedback as such but I was looking to start a thread on Smackdown v Raw and I've no idea where to put one. There's a thread on the new game in the wrestling forum but I was looking for some discussion on the game series as a whole or even just last years.

A year old game is hardly retro is it ?
Doubt this post will contribute much but I concur that there's a problem as I stay away from the Games forum as it confuses me.

Rev Hellfire

quarryman wrote: »

I give up! Rev Hellfire's list is even more split up! An OpFlash forum? FFS.

I think you'll find even I flagged that one as not needed, as I did the lotro one. The problem the OpFlash, Oblivion and DoW forum have is that they're listed under 'hosted', which noone sees, hence their total lack of activity. Perhaps if they where out in the open they'd be more active.

That been said, by having them listed as subforums under the main 'genre' forum both get flagged as having a new post.

quarryman wrote: »

Guys, we are trying to bring back the community element, not dilute it even more.
This pretty close but i'd drop Racing, Sports and Strategy. Just lump them all into games.

I don't think you'll succeed in creating one big super community, while people may be interested in games in general, they're interested particular gaming types in particular. And its in those common interest areas that people typically go and close communities can form.

I know that when I'm browsing I typically hit the rpg, strategy, and mmo forums here and ignore all else. I'm pretty sure I'm not alone in that.

That been said I know a large percentage of the posters in those categories, we've played games together (tons of strategy games, for an age we had regular nwn sessions, etc) and arranged meet ups. None of which would likely have happened if they had been lumped into games.

You see there are communities there, just because you don't see them doesn't mean they aren't there.

Terry

alan dunne 27 wrote: »

This isn't really feedback as such but I was looking to start a thread on Smackdown v Raw and I've no idea where to put one. There's a thread on the new game in the wrestling forum but I was looking for some discussion on the game series as a whole or even just last years.

A year old game is hardly retro is it ?
Doubt this post will contribute much but I concur that there's a problem as I stay away from the Games forum as it confuses me.

Probably best to go with whichever console you are using.

Blazer

I agree with the original post.
In fact I even brought it up in the Feedback forum.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055437035

Why not have Games forum changed to something like this?

Games: PC/PS3/Xbox/Others
Further break it down to FPS/RPG/Strategy etc.
With so many sub forums it's impossible to track what's going on.

Overheal

Mathew Reilly wrote: »

I agree with the original post.
In fact I even brought it up in the Feedback forum.

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055437035

Why not have Games forum changed to something like this?

Games: PC/PS3/Xbox/Others
Further break it down to FPS/RPG/Strategy etc.
With so many sub forums it's impossible to track what's going on.

you hafta read this whole thread to get the full effect. Basically nobody can agree on anything. And the argument against using console based forums is well structured imo, even though I too suggested a console structure.

Epic Tissue

Personally, I hate large "catch all" threads and don't post in them very often. For this reason, I don't like the idea of very general forums. For example, in a football forum which serves pro evo, fifa and football manager games I would hate if a topic was titled "The official Fifa 09 *360* thread". Boo-urns to that.

I think that the forums have to adapt to what is popular and what has demand and if the forum creates a community keep the forum but if the community dies, kill that forum. If the games fans come back from the dead and come up with enough to support to open it again, do that and if it dies again, rinse and repeat!

ninja-edit: keep the console forums

giggsy664

How about like Consoles ->A console (PS3) -> sub forum/fora (ie warhawk)

Cloud

16:42 <@Cloud&gt; Whew, nearly fone
16:42 <@Cloud&gt; done
16:42 <@Cloud&gt; I'm sure there'll be uproar of some sort
16:42 <@cult&gt; of course
16:42 <@cult&gt; and I'm sure you'll be there to answer any questions
16:42 <@cult&gt; ....right
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; No I am about to vanish off in a puff of smoke
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; But I know one thing, if you don't do anything, then you can't come to a final solution
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; so at least this will be a step in a better direction
16:44 <@Cloud&gt; People will complain about some categorisations, but overall I think it's pretty good
16:44 <@cult&gt; I agree

It's a first step folks, it still needs some work...

Dyr

these sweeping changes don't sweep enough for this cadet

I demand 50% more sweep.

/edit: i retract the above...browser cache betrayal issue. I deem the changes to be of sufficient sweep and then some..the games category in now full of win by the looks of it. God bless her and all who post in her.

KevIRL

Cloud wrote: »

16:42 <@Cloud&gt; Whew, nearly fone
16:42 <@Cloud&gt; done
16:42 <@Cloud&gt; I'm sure there'll be uproar of some sort
16:42 <@cult&gt; of course
16:42 <@cult&gt; and I'm sure you'll be there to answer any questions
16:42 <@cult&gt; ....right
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; No I am about to vanish off in a puff of smoke
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; But I know one thing, if you don't do anything, then you can't come to a final solution
16:43 <@Cloud&gt; so at least this will be a step in a better direction
16:44 <@Cloud&gt; People will complain about some categorisations, but overall I think it's pretty good
16:44 <@cult&gt; I agree

It's a first step folks, it still needs some work...

Hi Lads

The sub forums of Poker no longer appear at the top of the page of the main poker forum. Can this be changed back to what it was please. It makes things a lot easier for us.

Cheers

Kev

Ste05

Is it possible to still see the Poker sub-forums from the Poker main forum??

It's gonna be really annoying getting around Poker having to go to the drop down menu to get into the various sub-forums and to see what the latest post in each is...

Cloud

Do you mean like this?

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/forumdisplay.php?f=1159

Have to update the menu - then you can click straight through...

Ste05

Not really, more like (for example) how the Mod forum is where you can see all the threads in the forum and at the top you can see the various sub-forums.

EDIT: Or like how AH is

Cloud

Sure we can do that - it just saves having to scroll down every time you want to read the main poker forum threads the way it is now - do you want to poll your members or get some more feedback before I change it back?