Accountancy: Are we safe in the recession?

Climber

Hi,

Just wondering what people think of this.

ACCA, ACA, CIMA et al all "sell" their qualification to you by implying that 'The world will always need Accountants', 'Accountants will always get a job' etc.

So now that the economic environment will put that theory to the test I'd thought I'd ask the question:

"What position do we see ourselves in regarding job security in this economic recession?

Good, Bad or the same as everyone else?

easyontheeye

while its true the world will always need accountants, like the world needs most professions to exist. It comes down to supply and demand, The questions is how many...e.g. if your main business is audit and companies on your books are collapsing around you, you clearly wont need as many auditors! I dont believe any profession outside of the essential services such as healthcare, police, army etc is bombproof... just my opinion.

Whatever about being safe I will be the last to go.
Someone has to do the orderly shut down of the company and filing of final returns, paying off whatever is due etc and who better than the accountant?

ninty9er

I was told by a friend that all of the big 4 withdrew a number of graduate contracts this September, however the place where I did my placement took on as normal, being one of the big 6.

AIB is not taking grads next year, nor are a number of large law firms that would have traditionally taken a good number of graduates.

I reckon in situe accountants are safe enough in practices, but management accountants will be amongst the first in the company to know if they will lose their job.

mrfuncle

I agree wit pg633,

With companies being folding up left right and centre. I would imagine people in practice with insolvency experience would be pretty busy at the moment.

Just my two cents!

aintnosunshine

"There is nothing surer in life than death and taxes..." Does that not mean tax accountants and undertakers are safe so?

The_Hustler

You just made a well known joke sound much worse, congratulations.

I think that only accountants involved in liquidations are better off, and auditors and tax accountants do not benefit as their clients are closing down.

walshy123

ninty9er wrote: »

I was told by a friend that all of the big 4 withdrew a number of graduate contracts this September, however the place where I did my placement took on as normal, being one of the big 6.

AIB is not taking grads next year, nor are a number of large law firms that would have traditionally taken a good number of graduates.

I reckon in situe accountants are safe enough in practices, but management accountants will be amongst the first in the company to know if they will lose their job.

your in GT so? i heard a rumour that they let alot of staff go recently?

Kinetic^

Never a better time to start studying for the liquidation exams.

Hanley

From what I've heard, juniors are still getting decent pay rises as they progress. Last year around 7k from first year to second year seemed to be the norm, but now it's only expected to be around 5k.

That being said, I heard from a big 4 friend that his contract sets out his increases as 24k...32k....40k in years 1,2 and 3 respectively!

aintnosunshine

I heard a rumour don't know how true it was that PWC and deloitte Cork Branch were offering people who signed contracts with them €10,000 to rip up there contract so they wouldn't have to take them on...

Hanley

Apparently PWC, Deloitte and E&Y have fired a good number of grad's who failed their CAP 1 repeats. I know it was in their contract that it could happen if they failed, but I don't think it actually happeend with the old prof 2's!!

The_Hustler

I was told the same today about KPMG, unfortunately they are no different.

Fruiti

in fairness, the ICAI only allow 2 attempts at CAP 1/Prof 2 and they terminate your contract if you fail a second time unless your firm steps in and vouches for you that you're a valued employee and there were special circumstances e.g. illness etc etc. This year, there were way more fails at CAP 1 because of the abolition of compensation, so presumably the firms couldn't vouch for them all. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect people (who have been hired because of their high achievements at college etc!)to pass their exams within 2 attempts unless thre's a specific genuine reason for failure.

Badboy21

Fruiti wrote: »

in fairness, the ICAI only allow 2 attempts at CAP 1/Prof 2 and they terminate your contract if you fail a second time unless your firm steps in and vouches for you that you're a valued employee and there were special circumstances e.g. illness etc etc. This year, there were way more fails at CAP 1 because of the abolition of compensation, so presumably the firms couldn't vouch for them all. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect people (who have been hired because of their high achievements at college etc!)to pass their exams within 2 attempts unless thre's a specific genuine reason for failure.

I am myself am accountatn and work in the auit department for one of the big 4. After returning from one of jobs i was very suprised to see that a numebr of people in my department been fired from the big four because they ahd failed their cap 1 repeats. I find this an absolute disgrace,that a big four firms, that places so much emphasis in the graduate brochures that they will nurture and train you and give u x y and z , to be so ruthless.

i cant nderstand why the company i work for hire so many graduates per year and then jsut let them go when they fail their exams. Its ruthless and i think and it jsut ocnfirms the fact that us trainees are no more than a mindless lemming in the big scheme of things.

Im looking at my Resource planner and there is very few jobs going, i dodnt know wherether the business we auidt are going bust or perhpas going to pther companies such as kpmg.

Also im owrrie dthat there are town many accountants now in the market place, each year around 1,000 accountants complete the faes and are transfered into the market. If things keeping going this way we are going to have the same crisis in our profession as the laywers have presnetly.

Running Bing

Badboy21 wrote: »

I am myself am accountatn and work in the auit department for one of the big 4. After returning from one of jobs i was very suprised to see that a numebr of people in my department been fired from the big four because they ahd failed their cap 1 repeats. I find this an absolute disgrace,that a big four firms, that places so much emphasis in the graduate brochures that they will nurture and train you and give u x y and z , to be so ruthless.

i cant nderstand why the company i work for hire so many graduates per year and then jsut let them go when they fail their exams. Its ruthless and i think and it jsut ocnfirms the fact that us trainees are no more than a mindless lemming in the big scheme of things.

Im looking at my Resource planner and there is very few jobs going, i dodnt know wherether the business we auidt are going bust or perhpas going to pther companies such as kpmg.

Also im owrrie dthat there are town many accountants now in the market place, each year around 1,000 accountants complete the faes and are transfered into the market. If things keeping going this way we are going to have the same crisis in our profession as the laywers have presnetly.

And if people keep drinking on the job even more people will get the sack!

ams

Fruiti wrote: »

in fairness, the ICAI only allow 2 attempts at CAP 1/Prof 2 and they terminate your contract if you fail a second time unless your firm steps in and vouches for you that you're a valued employee and there were special circumstances e.g. illness etc etc. This year, there were way more fails at CAP 1 because of the abolition of compensation, so presumably the firms couldn't vouch for them all. i don't think it's unreasonable to expect people (who have been hired because of their high achievements at college etc!)to pass their exams within 2 attempts unless thre's a specific genuine reason for failure.

agreed - if you're not passing Cap 1 on the second attempt you are going to have major difficulties sitting Cap 2/FAE.

That being said its pretty harsh if the clause was never acted on before.

Fruiti

Ams - I agree with it being harsh given that it was never implemented before but I suppose even the big 4 aren't immune to recession etc and it doesn't make sense to spend more money on trainees who are failing exams when they have a massive pool of people who pass first time. changing times...! I've even heard a rumour that pwc are implementing a one attempt policy for next year although I don't know if this is true - pressure's on for those starting this year though!

NaasMan

I think the 2 attemps policy was only introduced in some firms in the last year or 2, when they all started to increase the number of grads the hired.

I have also heard that one the the smaller big 4 let first years go who passed their exams. There are also reports that one of the non big 4 top 10 firms also did this.

Bren1609

Kinetic^ wrote: »

Never a better time to start studying for the liquidation exams.

Which ones are they?

Kinetic^

Bren1609 wrote: »

Which ones are they?

http://www.bppprofessionaldevelopment.com/insolvency/jie/

Not sure what the requirements are for it though so you may or may not be able to jump straight into it.

Boom Boom

My two cents..........

With the increase in the audit exemption thresholds last year, more and more companies are going to avail as generally speaking an accountants report is cheaper than an auditors, that's if they even get an accountants report some companies have qualified FC's that are willing to do the annual accounts in house once they avail of the exemption CRO only need to see Directors report, balance sheet and notes.

Hanley

Boom Boom wrote: »

My two cents..........

With the increase in the audit exemption thresholds last year, more and more companies are going to avail as generally speaking an accountants report is cheaper than an auditors, that's if they even get an accountants report some companies have qualified FC's that are willing to do the annual accounts in house once they avail of the exemption CRO only need to see Directors report, balance sheet and notes.

But on the other hand you have to weigh up what positions the banks are going to take. Especially in the current climate. They might start demanding audited accounts if they company is looking for ongoing finance.

LightningBolt

AFAIk isn't Frisee/Frisse? there for small companies to assist in that type of situation.

narommy

NaasMan wrote: »

I think the 2 attemps policy was only introduced in some firms in the last year or 2, when they all started to increase the number of grads the hired.

I have also heard that one the the smaller big 4 let first years go who passed their exams. There are also reports that one of the non big 4 top 10 firms also did this.

Would like to point out that outside of Ireland (UK&US) it is standard practice sack if failing repeats.

It was just that there was a shortage of grads that let people get away with failing. Many high achieving grads went into banking in prior years.