Mass Fraud Fears In US Election

The Mad Hatter

Overheal wrote: »

What about fingerprint, or some other form of biometric ID? You wouldn't necessarily even need to tie this to an individual before voting: go in, they take your print, and its added to the database. when it finds a match, theres your fraud.

IIRC the larger a user base, the more likely it is for two prints to match up closely enough to be mistaken.

Manic Moran

where more Democrats voted than there were registered Democrat

Hang on, how do they figure that? I've never seen a General Election ballot which requires that you identify either yourself or your party affiliation.

NTM

lostexpectation

Hobbes wrote: »

I forget, but there is a way to get this information.

i know like here that through years of canvassing you can have records on nearly everyone and their voting history....

is being registered democrat or repub mean you are party member paying dues?

have i heard people say they were registered independent?

bobbyjoe

So you can just make up names and register them, then go and vote under that name????
Sounds like a dumb system.
Are there no checks at the polling station or with voter registers?

Manic Moran

is being registered democrat or repub mean you are party member paying dues?

No. It means that you have indicated an affiliation with the party. If you choose to donate money is your affair. Depending on the State it has different effects. For example, in California which has a semi-closed system, as I'm not a registered Republican, I cannot vote in the Republican primary and thus had no say over who would be the Republican candidate. This does not apply across all States, and need not apply throughout the entire State either: I could vote in the Democratic primary as the Democrats allow Democrats and independents (little "i") to vote in theirs.

have i heard people say they were registered independent?

In California, the box says 'Decline to state.' There is a party called the American Independent party, so it could cause confusion. However, generally, yes, we'd say 'registered independent' to indicate that we're registered to vote, but are independent of any party.

So you can just make up names and register them, then go and vote under that name????
Sounds like a dumb system.

Hence the desire from some parts to come up with the supposedly disenfranchising ID system.

Are there no checks at the polling station or with voter registers?

Not any which are particularly thorough. I don't believe there is any requirement to prove proof of citizenship, and proof of residence can be producing a bank statement with your name and address on it.

For example, go to California's Secretary of State web page, and click on the page to fill out the registration form, maybe for Alameda county.
http://www.sos.ca.gov/nvrc/fedform/Default.aspx

Either use a stolen SSN, or even just go with the 'I have no ID number' option. (Don't hit 'submit'!)

NTM

Black Swan

Don't you just love conspiracy theories; this one related to the forthcoming election, which promises to be a narrow win by one of the presidential platforms? The 2008 presidential election fraud conspiracy? Whomever loses will claim it for the reason they lost. How exciting! And even though there will be some fraud in this election (there always seems to be), the major threat to this election is not fraud, but election administration incompetence. This election is huge and complex, leaving a lot of room for human and voting machine error, and it will occur, perhaps on massive scales.

One source of error: It has been estimated that over 2,000,000 home foreclosures during this economic meltdown will result in address changes for millions of voters, having been registered under their old home address which they lost to foreclosure, now having a new one that is not reflected in the 4 November records. Furthermore, their new address may be in a different voting precinct or district than their old home. Some will be denied access to the polls, while others may vote in the wrong district, etc., etc. Fraud? No! A potential voting records screw-up indeed, which will be claimed as election fraud by the losing presidential platform!

Plus, think of all the voting machine and election ballot errors for the 2000 Bush-Gore presidential election, especially with the problems in Florida. You will see more of this in this election, if it is narrowly won by one platform. Yes, there may have been some fraud in Florida, but the major problems were more than likely due to human, machine, and ballot errors, not fraud. But just watch, whomever loses, be they Republican or Democrat, will scream fraud!

The only way this will not be an issue, is if one platform wins by a landslide, which I doubt will happen. It will be close, and election fraud will be screamed by the losers!

Manic Moran

Strange. Another post in which Mr Lagoon and I agree.

Those zombies are coming, aren't they?

NTM

Black Swan

Manic Moran wrote: »

Strange. Another post in which Mr Lagoon and I agree.

LOL! But once again your facts are wrong..."Mr Lagoon" hahaha! Ooooooo, look out Tar, you might have some competition!

lostexpectation

Manic Moran wrote: »

No. It means that you have indicated an affiliation with the party. If you choose to donate money is your affair. Depending on the State it has different effects. For example, in California which has a semi-closed system, as I'm not a registered Republican, I cannot vote in the Republican primary and thus had no say over who would be the Republican candidate. This does not apply across all States, and need not apply throughout the entire State either: I could vote in the Democratic primary as the Democrats allow Democrats and independents (little "i") to vote in theirs.

where is this indicated?

Manic Moran

where is this indicated?

Which bit?

NTM

lostexpectation

It means that you have indicated an affiliation with the party.. where is the list of people who are registered?

Manic Moran

lostexpectation wrote: »

It means that you have indicated an affiliation with the party.. where is the list of people who are registered?

In CA, at least, it's kept by the Registrar of Voters, of which each county has one. I'm sure each party is notified of their affiliates by the Registrar. During primary elections, you receive a ballot sheet depending on your request and which way you are registered. I do not believe there is any online list of voters and their party affiliation wherein we can just go and browse, but I'm sure it is available under the FoIA. During the General election, there is only one ballot sheet, so affiliation is irrelevant.

NTM

lostexpectation

should a government have a list of how people vote?

can anyone look at it at the court house?

can the parties look at it?

do primaries not happen at polling places, are they not organised by partiesthemselves? do the dems have list of registered democrats, how do they know if somebody is independent and not republican?

can a registered voter have no affiliation? ( i presume they can register green,socialist etc)

Manic Moran

lostexpectation wrote: »

should a government have a list of how people vote?

I would hope not. The US doesn't. Remember that party affiliation has nothing whatsoever to do with how you vote. You could have been a registered Republican for the last 40 years, there's nothing stopping you voting Democrat, and there's no way for the government to know which way you voted.

can anyone look at it at the court house?

The Registrar of Voter's list, probably, at the county offices.

can the parties look at it?

I believe anyone can if they're willing to fill out the forms and pay the $15 processing fee. (Or whatever it is)

do primaries not happen at polling places, are they not organised by partiesthemselves? do the dems have list of registered democrats, how do they know if somebody is independent and not republican?

The primaries are almost invariably held at polling places, usually as an additional ballot sheet. Show up at the polling station, and cast your vote for Mayor, City Water Engineer, Proposition 76, whatever. You also get, if applicable, a ballot sheet for a party's primary. Primaries are basically funded by the State, at least the first time, as a service. Look at the hassle in Florida over the demands for a do-over in the Democratic primary: the State said "no, we're not paying for a second one. If you want a second one, pay for it yourself"

As a result, the County poll-worker who issues out the ballot sheets also has a list provided by the Registrar indicating who is affiliated with which party. He/she then hands out the appropriate party's ballot sheet with the county ballot.

can a registered voter have no affiliation? ( i presume they can register green,socialist etc)

Yes. Witness above, comments about 'Decline to State', 'registered independents'

NTM

lostexpectation

Manic Moran wrote: »

I would hope not. The US doesn't. Remember that party affiliation has nothing whatsoever to do with how you vote. You could have been a registered Republican for the last 40 years, there's nothing stopping you voting Democrat, and there's no way for the government to know which way you voted.

they have list of the names of address' and the 'chances are' list of how they'll vote.

i find that bizarre.

does it trample on the line of a secret ballot.

Manic Moran

I think you're overstating the issue.

You could have been registered with the Democratic Party for the last 40 years, there's nothing stopping you from having voted Republican for every election in the last 40 years.

NTM

lostexpectation

it could be used to harrass people whether they vote that way or not.

is it not used to target voters in such scheme as shown above?

which at the very least could prevent people from registering and engaging in party systems properly.

Manic Moran

I guess it could, but I've never heard of it being done. I mean, just what sort of harassing would you do that wouldn't run a major risk of backfiring on you?

If anyone's being targetted, it's the 'decline to states.' We're the swing votes. Not least, the pollsters love us.

NTM

Manic Moran

Blue_Lagoon wrote: »

LOL! But once again your facts are wrong..."Mr Lagoon" hahaha! Ooooooo, look out Tar, you might have some competition!

Sorry.. Master Lagoon?

NTM

Black Swan

Manic Moran wrote: »

Sorry.. Master Lagoon?

You can call me master if you like. I did win the toss and got the master stateroom on our boat, so it fits. Plus, I kinda like the ring to it...

"I am the master of my fate, I am the captain of my soul.":cool:

lostexpectation

list of voters there address' and voting preferences/party allegiance, a green light to harrasment imho

isn't being a democrat a lynching offence these days.

Manic Moran

Ah, Captain Lagoon, then.

NTM

norbert64

lol, I think the rights trump card has just been pwned
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/13/sigh-mccain-and-his-friends-atacorn/

Trojan

norbert64 wrote: »

lol, I think the rights trump card has just been pwned
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/13/sigh-mccain-and-his-friends-atacorn/

That's pretty damned amusing.

Black Swan

Will the 2008 presidential election be worse than 2000, and if a close race, be plagued with state government incompetence, causing the determination of who won the election to be delayed for weeks like the 2000 general election?

"Tens of thousands of eligible voters in at least six swing states have been removed from the rolls or have been blocked from registering in ways that appear to violate federal law, according to a review of state records and Social Security data by The New York Times."

Source: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/27093919/

The so-called Super Power is about to have a Super Election Mess! What a farce!

Hobbes

norbert64 wrote: »

lol, I think the rights trump card has just been pwned
http://michellemalkin.com/2008/10/13/sigh-mccain-and-his-friends-atacorn/

There is a picture to go with that story.


The funny thing in all this is ACORN are not the people who are at fault. He is becoming a victim of his own rumour mill.

norbert64

good news everyone
http://blog.cleveland.com/openers/2008/10/us_supreme_court_sides_with_br.html

Manic Moran

Depends on your point of view. It is telling that it got to that situation in the first place. Why isn't there some system in place for verifying registrations? (And why wasn't the absence challenged in good time?)

It is also worth remembering, as the article points out, that SCOTUS said absolutely nothing either way about whether or not Ohio's officials were following the law. If the SecState is relying on a defense like "These people are casting ballots, not voting," that's skating on fairly thin ice. Technically accurate, as the ballots could be withdrawn before counting, but still thin.

The case may not be over. SCOTUS ruled that private individuals have no standing to mount a challenge. Demonstrating standing is one of the trickiest parts of the American legal system, it trips up a lot of otherwise worthy claimants. I wouldn't be surprised to see the challenge remounted by a public body, such as a pro-Republican county board or city DA.

NTM

bobbyjoe

They managed to scrub the felons and blacks off the last voter registration lists. How come they can't do the same for cartoon characters and people voting multiple times?

zod

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfY0JQLxZb4