Drogs in Finance Crisis

OhNoYouDidn't

elshambo wrote: »

Big difference between the two!!!

Actually there isn't. Shels, Drogs and B*hs all recently won league titles with money they did not have. Why pick Shels alone out for mention?

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

Swindle me bollix.

The club and fans were happy enough for that Arkaga to take over the club. They owned the club. They WERE the club.

Therefore, it was THE CLUB who acted in the way.

The most galling thing about it is that both Drogs and Cork were sneaky bastards about the Examinership, only taking the option when it was clear that a points deduction wouldn't really hurt them.

Therefore, they should be demoted.

The punishment should hit hard, and not be at the convenience of the club.

Its not that simple. Arkaga pulled out and tried to take all the assets with them after not paying bills when the credit crunch hit them hard. Nothing to do with football. Drogs have entered the process as a result of the stadium deal collapsing due to the NRA blocking the new ground. Your conspiracy theories are just that. If any club has done the dirt, its Bray, who waited till they were safe and stopped paying players the full wage.

I agree that most Cawk fans were happy enough with the situation until it exploded (although a number of them saw through them), but Argaka deny they ever owned the club, hence they are not liable for the debts. Its a unique situation and the FAI are right to help all fan takeovers.

Why should they be 'demoted'? You need to change the record in relation to how you percieve Shels have been harshly treated. Three clubs have entered examinership, all have lost points, Shels chose not to and didn't get a licence. Thats what happens.

gimmick

Des wrote:

The most galling thing about it is that both Drogs and Cork were sneaky bastards about the Examinership, only taking the option when it was clear that a points deduction wouldn't really hurt them.

I cannot speak for Drogheda, but if CCFC did not take, or indeed were we not forced at the time, the examinserhip process, we would be out of business a la CHF.

OhNoYouDidn't

gimmick wrote: »

I cannot speak for Drogheda, but if CCFC did not take, or indeed were we not forced at the time, the examinserhip process, we would be out of business a la CHF.

Des is simpy bitter that Shels could not go down that route due to the, ahem, unique nature of Ollies bookkeeping and their reluctance to open the books to outside scrutiny.

We should all be dragged down with them in his eyes.

If Shels could have gone down the examinership route they would and would still be a Premier Division side with reduced debts. Instead they chose to keep the books a secret, borrow against their lease on Tolka and scratch around the first division for a few years.

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OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

and scratch around the first division for a few years.

Nice to see you have full confidence in us getting back to the Premier.

Thanks.

:pac:

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

Nice to see you have full confidence in us getting back to the Premier.

Thanks.

:pac:

None whatsoever.

Besides, you need to sort your house out before you come back up. You have not done so and seeing as we finally got rid of UCD, I don't see any benefit with replacing them with you, who will either be a part time yo-yo club or go bust (again) trying to keep up with the big Dublin 3.

redzerdrog

there is some amount of sad bitter bastards in this place!

SectionF

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

B*hs :rolleyes: ... recently won league titles with money they did not have.

What money did Bohs not have?

OhNoYouDidn't

SectionF wrote: »

What money did Bohs not have?

there is the million from carroll for a start.

elshambo

redzerdrog wrote: »

there is some amount of sad bitter bastards in this place!

oohh the ironing, wont someone please do my ironing!

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redzerdrog wrote: »

there is some amount of sad bitter bastards in this place!

Oh, sorry.

We should just sweep the cheating under the carpet, should we?

:rolleyes::rolleyes:

SectionF

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

there is the million from carroll for a start.

That's not money we don't have. That's money we don't have from Carroll. Nowhere in our balance sheet assets column does it say that money only counts if it is coming from Carroll.

_blank_

SectionF wrote: »

That's not money we don't have. That's money we don't have from Carroll. Nowhere in our balance sheet assets column does it say that money only counts if it is coming from Carroll.

Is Bohemian Football Club currently in posession of the million euro that will ensure they are under the 65% Wage Cap?

Doesn't matter where it came from, or is coming from.

Do they have it now, or will they ever have it?

OhNoYouDidn't

SectionF wrote: »

That's not money we don't have. That's money we don't have from Carroll. Nowhere in our balance sheet assets column does it say that money only counts if it is coming from Carroll.

Is there an award on the thread for "weakest attempt to deflect away from the topic in hand with semantics"?

Its money you don't have that you have spent on players wages. Spending this money puts you in breach of the wage cap. Other clubs kept to the wage cap. Ergo you cheated.

My comment is that picking Shels out of the list of having 'bought the league' is unfair as more than just they have done it, and it wasn't explicitly against the rules when they did.

Back on topic, good luck to the drogs here, but I fear they are in the weaker situation than Rovers or Cork were.

OhNoYouDidn't

Des wrote: »

Is Bohemian Football Club currently in posession of the million euro that will ensure they are under the 65% Wage Cap?

Doesn't matter where it came from, or is coming from.

Do they have it now, or will they ever have it?

Due in court today to have it adjourned again put their case that the deal they entered with Albion and announced to the press was not in fact a deal.

SectionF

Wage cap is a different issue. It's simply a nonsense to say Bohs spent money they didn't have, i.e. that is not backed by assets.

I've read the discussion of the wage cap here and elsewhere and, frankly, I don't think there is a clear understanding of it.

I'm not an accountant, but IIRC the rule relates to revenue, and not to money in the bank. If you have income accruing within a certain period, that in accounting terms is income even if your debtor fails to pay. So whether Carroll, or anyone else, actually paid over money due is not the point.
What you are suggesting is that the whole league has to work on a cash-only basis.

OhNoYouDidn't

SectionF wrote: »

Wage cap is a different issue. It's simply a nonsense to say Bohs spent money they didn't have, i.e. that is not backed by assets.

I've read the discussion of the wage cap here and elsewhere and, frankly, I don't think there is a clear understanding of it.

I'm not an accountant, but IIRC the rule relates to revenue, and not to money in the bank. If you have income accruing within a certain period, that in accounting terms is income even if your debtor fails to pay. So whether Carroll, or anyone else, actually paid over money due is not the point.
What you are suggesting is that the whole league has to work on a cash-only basis.

Now its ok to spend money you don't have because you have 'an asset'?

If the 'debtor' makes it clear he will not pay the funds and you put it down on the accounts as income anyway, you are at best in breach of the licencing agreement. Its money you dont have that you spent in the full knowledge it was a breach of the rules.


Laughable stuff.

_blank_

ridden rock solid.

CiaranC

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I actually don't have a problem with that position. Cork were essentially the victims of a swindle, the club itself did nothing wrong. It was well run, on budget and structurally sound until their 'owners' tried to pull a fast one. Hence it was the shortest examinership ever.

The other two clubs to go into examinership, Rovers and Drogs did so as a result of financial mismanagement and stadium delays. Their fault.

What? Whose fault was it if not CCFCs? Arkaga WERE CCFC. This bull**** about just changing your owners and then carrying on regardless has to stop. Whats the point in having rules if they are at best selectively enforced.

OhNoYouDidn't

CiaranC wrote: »

What? Whose fault was it if not CCFCs? Arkaga WERE CCFC. This bull**** about just changing your owners and then carrying on regardless has to stop. Whats the point in having rules if they are at best selectively enforced.

Its not that simple. The FAI were pinning Arkaga with a head of agreement that they 'owned 'CCFC, Arkaga are saying that Lennox actually did and they were merely 'investors'.

I think the point the FAI are trying to make is that CCFC were a well run entity, not clocking up debts, producing good young talent and doing things the right way until they got involved with a hedge fund who pulled a fast one and tried to asset strip. In other words they were only broke because a fund involved with them appeared to pull a fast one.


In other words the opposite to the Drogs and Rovers entering examinership who ran up reckless debts and fcuked up their stadium situations.

Its a unique situation and O'Sullivan seems to be doing the right thing in bringing the fans on board in a meaningful way and the FAI seem to back that stance.

SectionF

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

Now its ok to spend money you don't have because you have 'an asset'?

If the 'debtor' makes it clear he will not pay the funds and you put it down on the accounts as income anyway, you are at best in breach of the licencing agreement. Its money you dont have that you spent in the full knowledge it was a breach of the rules.
Laughable stuff.

This is tuppence-ha'penny accounting. You clearly haven't a breeze what you are on about, so it's not really going do any good engaging with your makey-uppy interpretations of the rules.
Let's stick to some general and demonstrable truths. An asset isn't an asset unless it has value, i.e. money, behind it. Anyone who seriously suggests that BFC spending is in excess of its asset value, or anywhere near it, clearly has little grasp on reality (or perhaps little recent experience of owning anything ).
I think your construction regarding our debtor's intentions and our interpretation of them is highly selective as well as being entirely speculative. Your wanting it to be true doesn't make it so. Entertaining nevertheless...

Zebra3

Des wrote: »

ridden rock solid.

More like raped rs. :mad:

OhNoYouDidn't wrote: »

I think the point the FAI are trying to make is that CCFC were a well run entity, not clocking up debts, producing good young talent and doing things the right way until they got involved with a hedge fund who pulled a fast one and tried to asset strip.

The rubbish you post here is unreal. WHAT ASSETS? :rolleyes:

The FAI are defending CCFC because Arkaga's withdrawl has made the FAI look like the fools that they are.

Delaney standing there with waving his "agreement" with Arkaga/CCFC, proud as punch, like Neville Chamberlain shouting about "peace in our time".

Zebra3

elshambo wrote: »

I dont give a monkies about shels!
Shels are lucky not to be a pub team, Shels should not have been allowed to keep the league they bought in my opinion:eek:

Please explain to me what rules we broke in winning the league in 2006.

Is that none I hear you say? :rolleyes:

Fair play to the FAI, raping a club that is honouring its debts while rewarding those that don't.

A honourable way of doing business. :mad:

gimmick

The sh*t is about to truly hit the fan this week for Drogs?

gimmick

Strike action being talked of now and not fulfiling their final fixture according to todays Star. Surely this won't coem to pass, even if they have to field the U 18s?

gimmick

If this is true, Drogs are goners.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/drogs-need-8364500000--to-avoid-extinction-1559879.html

DROGHEDA UNITED, the 2007 Eircom League champions, will cease to exist past the New Year if they cannot stump up at least €500,000 of non-refundable cash in the next 10 days, according to staff at the Boyneside club.

The club has been surviving on petty cash since the League of Ireland season ended over two weeks ago and the gas bills at United Park are currently being funded by a single die-hard supporter, such is the extent of their problems.

The board will meet supporters tomorrow night to explain the current crisis in full and plead for the investment of hard cash from everybody and anybody, while Shane Robinson and another contracted player will meet chairman Vincent Hoey to discuss an agreement over the payment of overdue wages.

But it is unlikely small donations or cuts will save Drogheda United from their current plight and a significant investment is needed if League of Ireland football is to be played in the Louth-Meath border town next season.

"We are exploring every avenue to get out of this but at the moment we are making very little progress in trying to fulfil our commitment to the High Court," said club officer Terry Collins, one of only two people left working in the club's offices.

"The club is on its knees and my biggest fear now is that, come January, Drogheda United will not exist as a club."

United are in examinership and examiner Kieran McCarthy must convince the High Court the club can be sustained as a business when he goes before the judge on December 12.

The court can then decide to extend the deadline to early January if the judge feels there is hope of survival for the business. If not, Drogheda United would be forced to shut up shop.

When they entered examinership, Drogheda had accrued over €732,000 worth of debt, with €535,000 of that owed to the Revenue commissioner.

Neither staff nor players have been paid in over two weeks and it is believed those debts have risen to over €850,000.

Their town-centre merchandise shop, previously a major source of income, is due to be closed after Christmas and examiner McCarthy, who also took court-appointed control of retail giants Sasha recently, is also believed to be owed a six-figure sum for his services, so Collins fears the worst.

"We have spoken to a number of investors from home and abroad and there is still some interest but time is running out and people need to know just how grave the situation here is becoming," he said.

"We still have the debts that we had when we entered examinership, no players or staff have been paid in over two weeks and while fans have been great in helping out with fundraisers, it's a drop in the ocean compared to the kind of money we need.

"If we don't get over the hurdle of examinership at the end of this month it would spell the end."

Collins and Hoey are still trying to remain optimistic, however, and feel investors may still show their hand before the club's court appearance.

"We've had interest from people in Britain, who see Irish football as a gateway into the higher rounds of UEFA competition, so we still think people who want to invest in football could see it as a prospect."

In a statement released by the club yesterday, Hoey urged supporters to attend tomorrow night's meeting at the Drogheda Institute of Further Education and try help save the club he helped found in 1975.

"This club has faced some tough times over the years, but this is by far the worst situation we have found ourselves in.

"We're in discussions with a number of investors, but negotiations are slow. I dread to think what may happen should we fail to secure any further investment."

- Neil Ahern

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Drogs still owe money to players?

The 30th November has passed, they'll, at least, be in the First Division next season now.

Ronan|Raven

I cannot see where they will get 500,00 from I am afraid it is game over for them unles a miracle happens. Certainly dont want to see the club go completly.

_blank_

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

I cannot see where they will get 500,00 from I am afraid it is game over for them unles a miracle happens. Certainly dont want to see the club go completly.

True, but if Drogs do go to the wall, can the FAI force Mervue to go up to the First I wonder.

I also wonder of Cork City, Cobh Ramblers and Bohemians still owe money to players.

Ronan|Raven

Good point actually, I dont think mervue will choose to make the step up from what a mate of mine has been telling me who is friendly with a few in the club. According to a paper report Athlone have missed the deadline along with Harps and Bray??

I know our finances aint good (be a kind way of putting it) AGM this Thursday wish I could say I am looking forward to it.

bohsman

Des wrote: »

I also wonder of Bohemians still owe money to players.

What do you mean? There was one or two instances of late payments this season both blamed on the banks and paid up in 2-3 days. The last occasion I can remember of Bohs owing money to a player was a 10k bonus to Domernack Folly that saw him get a free move to Ghent.

djpbarry

According to a report in Tuesday’s Irish Sun, Premier Division trio Drogheda United, Cork City and Bray Wanderers and Athlone Town, Cobh Ramblers and Finn Harps – who are due to take part in the First Division in 2009 – failed to pay outstanding debts to contracted players by last weekend.

Given that this is being reported by The Sun, I'm going to take this with an ocean or two of salt.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/offthefield/news.asp?n=35129

Gareth37

djpbarry wrote: »

Given that this is being reported by The Sun, I'm going to take this with an ocean or two of salt.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/offthefield/news.asp?n=35129

I think most clubs have learned their lesson now. I don't think they will do anything to 1st division clubs anyway. Onwards and upwards

_blank_

Gareth37 wrote: »

I think most clubs have learned their lesson now.

Er.

No club is going to learn a lesson with the FAI handing out deadline extensions.

Next season will be the same as this. But different clubs will be involved.

DmanDmythDledge

Des wrote: »

Drogs still owe money to players?

The 30th November has passed, they'll, at least, be in the First Division next season now.

Don't see why the should even get a First Division license. Clubs in the FD have to pay all their players to get a license there, same should be the case for Drogheda.

djpbarry wrote: »

Given that this is being reported by The Sun, I'm going to take this with an ocean or two of salt.

http://www.eleven-a-side.com/offthefield/news.asp?n=35129

That's probably true but it could be the Sun trying to make a story out of nothing. The clubs may have made an agreement with the players to defer the wages.

_blank_

DmanDmythDledge wrote: »

That's probably true but it could be the Sun trying to make a story out of nothing. The clubs may have made an agreement with the players to defer the wages.

Which, if allowed, if an absolute bullshít by cop-out both the FAI and the PFAI.

CiaranC

Des wrote: »

Which, if allowed, if an absolute bullshít by cop-out both the FAI and the PFAI.

Quelle surprise

_blank_

Des wrote: »

I also wonder of Cork City, Cobh Ramblers and Bohemians still owe money to players.

bohsman wrote: »

What do you mean? There was one or two instances of late payments this season both blamed on the banks and paid up in 2-3 days. The last occasion I can remember of Bohs owing money to a player was a 10k bonus to Domernack Folly that saw him get a free move to Ghent.

I mean this, the underlined part. Other parts of interest are highlighted.

Bohs cash crisis may spell exit for Fenlon

PAT FENLON could leave champions Bohemians for rivals Shamrock Rovers after the double-winners were hit by another cash setback yesterday when they agreed to pay a six-figure out-of-court settlement to former manager Sean Connor.

The Gypsies are already in financial difficulty after losing a case in relation to a portion of their Dalymount Park home, which has put the sale of the venue to developer Liam Carroll in jeopardy.

With Fenlon already having been told to cut his budget by €600,000 for next season, and players under contract asked if they would take a pay cut, the manager is known to be very alarmed at the situation and is contemplating making the move to Rovers, who are preparing to move into their new home in Tallaght.

However, the Irish Independent understands that Fenlon faces strong competition from Brechin manager Michael O'Neill, with the ex-Hibs and Northern Ireland international a serious candidate for the Hoops job.

O'Neill, who played 33 times for the North, also lined out with Newcastle, Wigan and Dundee United during a long career.

Bohs are facing the prospect of seeing their double-winning squad disintegrate. Fringe players John Paul Kelly and Harpal Singh have already been let go, while Mindaugas Kalonas has gone cross-channel to seek a new club. In addition, new contracts cannot be offered to Stephen O'Donnell, Gary Deegan and Liam Burns in the current climate -- and they are three players that Fenlon would like to keep.

Concerned

The Gypsies board met last night, with some members known to be very concerned with recent developments and looking for resignations from the hierarchy.

Meanwhile, with a substantial settlement in his back pocket, Connor has been linked with the managerial vacancy at Dundalk, but he is not the No 1 choice of the newly-promoted side after they chose to dispense with the services of John Gill.

While the Belfast native impressed in his interview and has been boosted by winning his court battle with Bohs, it's believed that Dundalk have already offered the job to a preferred candidate, subject to the agreement of terms and conditions, after a lengthy board meeting on Tuesday night.

Galway United manager Jeff Kenna and former Waterford manager Gareth Cronin are believed to be the other front-runners

-

©Independent.ie

Ronan|Raven

They need to raise 100,000 before the 12th apparently and another 100,000 before year end.

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Ronan|Raven wrote: »

They need to raise 100,000 before the 12th apparently and another 100,000 before year end.

Yep, and they've opened a "War Room" in United Park, ffs.

War Room, I ask you.

SectionF

Ronan|Raven wrote: »

They need to raise 100,000 before the 12th apparently and another 100,000 before year end.

Apparently 50,000 was pledged last night. A decent start. Good luck to them.

CiaranC

Des wrote: »

Yep, and they've opened a "War Room" in United Park, ffs.

War Room, I ask you.

A "War Room", run by the same muppets that got them into this mess.

Almost as funny as the shenanigans over at Bohs.

gimmick

What the bloody hell is a "War Room"?

Ronan|Raven

You can't fight in here this is the war room!