Campaign gets racial

Superhands · 10-10-2008 4:51am #1

some extraordinary developments over the last week

a shout of "kill him" (obama) heard from one member of the audience and a black TV man being racially abused by a crowd member at a Palin rally in Florida as she talks about the national medai

NY times editorial accusing McCain of "race-baiting"

Biden talking about it being "mildly dangerous"

Fox reporting "In recent days, when Barack Obama's name is mentioned, it has gone from boos and hissing to actual chants and calls of 'traitor', 'criminal' and even 'terrorist'. The McCain campaign say that don't condone it, don't want to see it happen but it's happening more and more every day.

is McCain trying to bring the country down with him ?

I've written about this on my blog byzantine330.blogspot.com

twice now on CNN in recent days they've talked about the potential for violence

herobear · 10-10-2008 5:24am

yeah McCain/Palin know theyre fighting a losing battle, so theyve resorted to mudslinging at their rallies, they might not 'officially' condone it, but theyre not doing anything to prevent it(Palin just stands there and smiles). Ironically though i think it'll have the opposite effect in which they hope in the eyes of the undecideds(the people who really matter at this late stage in the race).

i'd actually be embarassed, if i was at a rally and saw this stuff firsthand

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 9:14am

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

Lemming · 10-10-2008 9:34am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

So what you're saying is that whites only should run in presidential campaigns? Since that way all candidates are even on race. White vs. white. vs. ...err ... more white. We could say that this campaign has been sexist from the moment Sarah Palin stepped into the ring. Where do you want this particular line of argument (and it's an incredibly weak one at that) to stop?

Historically, the democrats have by and large consistently held the majority of black votes because they've felt a greater chance of being represented. That Obama is black is not an issue, since he'd be getting a large swathe of minority community voting because he represents the democrat party. So saying large amounts of black voters are going to vote for him because he's black is a complete red herring of an argument. It's no more an argument than saying whites are going to vote for McCain because he's white. Some on both sides will of course display racial prejudice in the voting booth but there's little anyone can do about that.

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 10:12am

Lemming wrote: »

So what you're saying is that whites only should run in presidential campaigns? Since that way all candidates are even on race. White vs. white. vs. ...err ... more white. We could say that this campaign has been sexist from the moment Sarah Palin stepped into the ring. Where do you want this particular line of argument (and it's an incredibly weak one at that) to stop?

Historically, the democrats have by and large consistently held the majority of black votes because they've felt a greater chance of being represented. That Obama is black is not an issue, since he'd be getting a large swathe of minority community voting because he represents the democrat party. So saying large amounts of black voters are going to vote for him because he's black is a complete red herring of an argument. It's no more an argument than saying whites are going to vote for McCain because he's white. Some on both sides will of course display racial prejudice in the voting booth but there's little anyone can do about that.

Of course not, anyone should be able to run for office.

If you had a Asian candidate I would suspect that the majority of the Asian population would vote for them.

I also suspect that if McCain picked Colin Powell as his running mate, or if George Bush did, as he was rumored to be a VP candidate back in 2000, you would see a massive movement toward the Republicans by black voters, based solely on the fact that there was a black candidate on the ticket.

Lemming · 10-10-2008 11:05am

Benedict XVI wrote: »

I also suspect that if McCain picked Colin Powell as his running mate, or if George Bush did, as he was rumored to be a VP candidate back in 2000, you would see a massive movement toward the Republicans by black voters, based solely on the fact that there was a black candidate on the ticket.

Perhaps, perhaps not. It's impossible to know now given that many voters would appear to be less impressed with style and more with substance this time around. Case in point seems to be a distinct air of "I don't give a crap about how many hairs he has on his head or what his pet dogs name is, tell me how you are goin gto fix the economy. My job and house are on the line big-time" resonating with voters.

Had this been 5 years ago, I'd have agreed with your assessment as being reasonably accurate. This time around, it appears that more voters are paying attention to the politics and being turned off by the mud-slinging. Now if only that were the case more often the world over, what a better place this planet could be.

CtrlSource · 10-10-2008 12:41pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 12:56pm

CtrlSource wrote: »

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

Personal opinion, based on living and working in the US for a decade.

Give me time I might find some youtube of black voters being asked.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 1:00pm

CtrlSource wrote: »

Citation please?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem :rolleyes:

There is a number of websites on Google suggesting that more than 90% of black people are voting for Obama, however there is no stastic to exactly pin point (as far as I can see, anyway).

RedPlanet · 10-10-2008 1:07pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

Complete rubbish. As an ethnic group, African American's have been voting for the Democratic Party since the US Civil Rights Act.
Regardless if the candidate is white or black.

CtrlSource · 10-10-2008 1:16pm

yaynay wrote: »

There is a number of websites on Google suggesting that more than 90% of black people are voting for Obama, however there is no stastic to exactly pin point (as far as I can see, anyway).

That's not the issue here. i'm well aware that the majority of black people will vote for him. i am curious to know where Benedict got his information that the "majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black".

The Mad Hatter · 10-10-2008 1:17pm

herobear wrote: »

(Palin just stands there and smiles).

Now let's be fair, that's all she seems to do anyway.

Hobbes · 10-10-2008 1:32pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

Give me time I might find some youtube of black voters being asked.

African American population of America tend to vote Democratic. Has nothing to do with the colour of his skin.

Ludo · 10-10-2008 1:41pm

To say it has nothing to do with his skin colour may be a bit much. Yes black people generally vote democrat but more will this year than any other and some who may have previously voted republican may vote democrat. This is a special occasion though. For a race that has had the history that it does in the States, this is a momentous occasion and of course some will vote on skin colour purely to try and get the first black president...and nothing wrong with that IMHO.

You could also say the same about Palin supporters though...rednecks and white trash will vote for her in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 1:46pm

CtrlSource wrote: »

That's not the issue here. i'm well aware that the majority of black people will vote for him. i am curious to know where Benedict got his information that the "majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black".

We will know more when the turnout is tallied (and currently, based on expected turnout).

If black voters turn out in their droves like never before to vote for a black candidate, well you don't need to be a rocket scientist to figure it out. Sure, an inspirational candidate will inspire new types of voters but key motivation will be representation and identification factors.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 1:49pm

Ludo wrote: »

of course some will vote on skin colour purely to try and get the first black president...and nothing wrong with that IMHO.

You could also say the same about Palin supporters though...rednecks and white trash will vote for her in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her

and what about those won't vote obama or palin because they don't like who they represent (as opposed to disliking their policies?).

That ok too?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:07pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

and what about those won't vote obama or palin because they don't like who they represent (as opposed to disliking their policies?).

That ok too?

Well you see this is what will happen.

Black person votes for Dems because he/she does not like McCain and or Palin = OK

White person votes Rep. because he/she does not like Obama and or Biden = Racist

Ludo · 10-10-2008 2:08pm

Nope...just saying there will always be a percentage of people who will vote for the candidate they relate most to. This election is the first time many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) so it is perfectly natural that some will vote for him due to that. I wouldn't call it racism though.

Is the fact some women will vote for McCain because of Palin sexism? I don't think so.
I can think of a few other words for it, but sexism it ain't

I'm not saying anything is right or wrong...just that human nature dictates some people will behave like this without any malice intended.

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:24pm

Ludo wrote: »

This election is the first time many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) so it is perfectly natural that some will vote for him due to that. I wouldn't call it racism though.

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

bobbyjoe · 10-10-2008 2:27pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:30pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

If I were to say I can relate to McCain because of the colour of his skin and am voting for him as a result I would be called a racist.

them's the breaks.

It's politically acceptable to call books 'stupid white men' but not 'stupid black men' etc. etc. Sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

iwudluvit · 10-10-2008 2:30pm

bobbyjoe wrote: »

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

oh for god's sake. read the thread.

bobbyjoe · 10-10-2008 2:40pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

oh for god's sake. read the thread.

Was I quoting you?

Benedict XVI · 10-10-2008 2:47pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

that would be a very welcome development

Ludo · 10-10-2008 2:47pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

OK, but the reason many can directly relate to a candidate (Obama obviously) is because of the colour of his skin, and they are voting because of that.

A percentage are obviously without doubt. no way to tell how many though. You seem to be implying ALL of them will vote for him because of skin colour. Total generalisation.
The vast majority are probably going to vote for him though as they agree with the policies (democratic supporters anyway) and some will make an extra effort to actually vote this time which they may not have made before. That still does NOT make it racism.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 2:50pm

iwudluvit wrote: »

them's the breaks.

It's politically acceptable to call books 'stupid white men' but not 'stupid black men' etc. etc. Sauce for the goose is not sauce for the gander.

If obama winning would have any good consequence it might be that the playing field would be levelled again and blacks could get out of pointing to systemic racism in the USA.

It's this sort of double standards that's the infuriating part.

yaynay · 10-10-2008 2:54pm

Ludo wrote: »

A percentage are obviously without doubt. no way to tell how many though. You seem to be implying ALL of them will vote for him because of skin colour. Total generalisation.
The vast majority are probably going to vote for him though as they agree with the policies (democratic supporters anyway) and some will make an extra effort to actually vote this time which they may not have made before. That still does NOT make it racism.

Lubo, speaking of generalisations:

"rednecks and white trash will vote for her [Palin] in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her"

Ludo · 10-10-2008 2:54pm

yaynay wrote: »

It's this sort of double standards that's the infuriating part.

erm...

http://www.amazon.com/Stupid-Black-Men-Play-Card/dp/0312367333

A white man can write a book called stupid white men but not stupid black men...and vice versa...it's only been 40ish years since the civil rights act. Is it that hard to understand that it takes time for wounds like that to heal.

Superhands · 10-10-2008 2:55pm

Benedict XVI wrote: »

The campaign has been racist from the minute Obama entered it.

The majority of blacks will vote for him, and even vote at all, just because he is black.

This is no different to a white person voting for McCain (or Hillary in the primaries) just because they are white.

are racists voting for mccain (and clinton previously) because they are white, or are they voting for against obama because he is black ?

Ludo · 10-10-2008 2:57pm

yaynay wrote: »

Lubo, speaking of generalisations:

"rednecks and white trash will vote for her [Palin] in their droves (even though they generally vote republican anyway) as they can relate to her"

If you are going to try using my comments against me, then please quote me properly...there was a smiley on it to show I was being sarcastic and showing how the same silly argument can be applied to both sides. You know what I meant and misquoted to try scoring a point.

Superhands · 10-10-2008 2:58pm

bobbyjoe wrote: »

How do you know they are only voting for him because he is black? Maybe its his policies?

blacks vote democrat anyway about 85% so the point is largely moot

even if they did vote for him simply because he is black this (while not wholly defensible) is hardly comparable to people (ie some blue collar democrats) resisting the candidate who would usually get their support because he is black

Campaign gets racial

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