Fair play to Enda Kenny

tom-d

With Enda not being in government there is not much he can do to make change in the country and hence get in the news..........................this is one of the few things enda can do that may set an example to the whole of Leinster house..................if you dont have your players on the pitch, you cant play ball

The situation is a bit like Irelands bank bail out really, one does it, the rest must follow

thetyreman

All i say is fairplay to Mr.Velcro,he say the train comeing and got the **** off the track....................

Vyse

Fair play to Enda. I won't add fuel to the fire by adding anymore moronic comments to the ones already made.

Crash

by the quality of the posts on this thread, it should be in AH. My understanding was the reason we posted in politics was because we could be reasonably guaranteed proper discussion. at least half, if not three quarters of the posts on this thread do not deserve to be in this fora. Thought this place was better than that.

Oh well

jmayo

tom-d wrote: »

Enda likes thinking up of little stunts that will get him in the news for a day just to remind people that his party still exists.....cause they cant do much else not being in government...............if you dont have your players on the pitch, you cant play ball

Well tom-d, nice to see your third post being so constructive.

Speaking in your football parlance, your great team that has been on the pitch for the last 11 years seem to have had to put the pitch, the home ground, the whole kit and kaboodle in hock to bail out the banks, who have been giving loads of money they don't appear to ever had, to the teams sponsors, the developers and builders.
Oh and the ball is burst just like their great economic bubble. :rolleyes:

tom-d

j-mayo think your right, was a bit harsh on Enda(ill edit it), the main point I was trying to get across was Tds not in government can really do sweet fa

oh and you refereed to them as my team! certainly not the case!:D

Hope people dont already think of me as a stuipd ranter!!!

Agent Smith

McArmalite wrote: »

Wouldn't get them (FG) elected as the government anyway. We'll still be stuck with FF for another while, it's not that FF are much good, but the opposition are so poor.

Have a Guess which party was the only party to increase its seats in the last election.

ninty9er

I wonder what Richard Bruton and Kieran O'Donnell's wives had to say about their willingness to take 5% of their salary out of the household budget for next year....bare in mind they don't get a 60k leaders allowance either;)

Liam Byrne

Jeez - for the first time in YEARS a politician does something positive (however small, it is positive) and all we get is American-style dismissal and derision ???? Pathetic!

Yes, €5,000 might be a drop in the ocean for a high-level TD, but it's the principle that counts, and fair play!

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise......

165 x €5,000 would still be a drop in the ocean, but it would make the budget more palatable if we knew that the Government weren't simply expecting US to pay for their incompetence and mismanagement.

Small token gesture ? Yes. Publicity stunt ? More than likely. Worthy of consideration by all the other incompetent fat-cats who've landed us in this mess ? Definitely.

Of course, this thread is the perfect example of the party-political-driven derision seen elsewhere.

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

I wonder what Richard Bruton and Kieran O'Donnell's wives had to say about their willingness to take 5% of their salary out of the household budget for next year....bare in mind they don't get a 60k leaders allowance either;)

We're not paying Bruton or O'Donnell's wives to have opinions that affect the country, so if you want to pose that question in "Tabloidesque Celebrity Household Issues" or some relevant thread, fire away.

This is a politics forum, so the pertinent question SHOULD be "I wonder what the electorate will have to say about the OTHER politicians UNWILLINGNESS to show example and take responsibility........"

the_syco

mydogjack wrote: »

should be 25% wage cut. twat.

Agreed. But Enda will make up that 5% in expenses...

nesf

The Irish Times reaction: http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/1011/1223676792854.html?digest=1

SeanW

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise

...

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

+1;

BTW isn't the 30% odd pay rise that the gov't awarded themselves last year but deferred, coming due about now?

Enda was on the last word earlier in the week deriding an 8% cut for T.D's as a token gesture.
The very next day he announces a 5% cut for himself.
The man is all over the place to be honest.


As for waste of money over the last ten years,I agree it's a disgrace.
However I am realistic to know that if the other gang were in power they'd probably have wasted just as much and it would be FF giving out.

Irish politicians are for the most part inept unfortunately.
Mind you so are the voters.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Jeez - for the first time in YEARS a politician does something positive (however small, it is positive) and all we get is American-style dismissal and derision ???? Pathetic!

Yes, €5,000 might be a drop in the ocean for a high-level TD, but it's the principle that counts, and fair play!

Yes, if Enda took a bigger cut it'd be even better for the country, but rather than deriding it as party politics we should be asking why the other 165 politicians aren't doing likewise......

165 x €5,000 would still be a drop in the ocean, but it would make the budget more palatable if we knew that the Government weren't simply expecting US to pay for their incompetence and mismanagement.

Small token gesture ? Yes. Publicity stunt ? More than likely. Worthy of consideration by all the other incompetent fat-cats who've landed us in this mess ? Definitely.

Of course, this thread is the perfect example of the party-political-driven derision seen elsewhere.

Rather than deriding Enda for this, we should be asking why Cowen and Harney aren't doing likewise.

Over the next few months, many companies will be looking at their budgets and balance sheets and looking at redundancies and pay cuts; the Minister for Finance should do likewise.

SO....if all members of the Oireachtas take a 5% hit, will you take a 1% cut?? There's no point recommending it for others if you're not willing to do it yourself, which was the point Kenny was trying to make.

jmayo

Liam Byrne wrote: »

We're not paying Bruton or O'Donnell's wives to have opinions that affect the country, so if you want to pose that question in "Tabloidesque Celebrity Household Issues" or some relevant thread, fire away.

This is a politics forum, so the pertinent question SHOULD be "I wonder what the electorate will have to say about the OTHER politicians UNWILLINGNESS to show example and take responsibility........"

Liam you are forgetting that the poster of that comment is a buidler party fan so it is easier for him to scorn Kenny's idea than have to answer why FF and their gang would not do something likewise.

Next thing you will see is fianna failure trying to blame Kenny and FG/Labour for the cockup that is our economy :rolleyes:

jmayo

ninty9er wrote: »

SO....if all members of the Oireachtas take a 5% hit, will you take a 1% cut?? There's no point recommending it for others if you're not willing to do it yourself, which was the point Kenny was trying to make.

Does Liam Byrne work for the government, is he a public employee ?
If not then the only ones that should care what he is paid is himself and his employer.
I don't care what he earns because I the taxpayer don't have to foot the bill !

ninty9er

jmayo wrote: »

Does Liam Byrne work for the government, is he a public employee ?
If not then the only ones that should care what he is paid is himself and his employer.
I don't care what he earns because I the taxpayer don't have to foot the bill !

Regardless of public servant or not, as consumers we all do foot the bill. It's not a matter of public sector pay. While that outstrips the private sector at the lower end of the scale, once you get to management level the private sector outstrips it and puts pressure on inflation.

Kenny is leading by example, fair enough, but it's all well and good for him, with allowances to back it up. Charlie Flanagan, Brian Hayes and Billy Timmons say that more or less they can't afford it. Now while €5,329.05 is nothing to be sniffed at, none of them would go hungry without it. I would like to see the Finance Bill 2009 put a pay freeze across the public sector (to be honest I could deal with nurses and Gardaí getting increases) and a 10% cut across all constitutional institutions. Basically bringing the salary of a TD to €95,922.90 from €106,581. However, this is messing with people's lives, so not effective until January, pending a review of salary policy for members of the Oireachtas to bring them in line with the level they would have earned in their previous profession....(e.g a Senator who had been a barrister would get €200k and one who had been a principal would get €80k) This incentivises those who don't run because of money and disincentivises those who do, so that we get a better performing Oireachtas.

Of course little of that has anything to do with Enda Kenny, but I'm not dissing the man, I just don't think it can be sincere if he's not taking 5% off his entire remuneration package.

dresden8

Has he given up his teachers pay?

ninty9er

dresden8 wrote: »

Has he given up his teachers pay?

IIRC he gave it up last year before the election. Open to correction on that though. About time after 30 years IMO.

jmayo

jmayo wrote: »

Next thing you will see is fianna failure trying to blame Kenny and FG/Labour for the cockup that is our economy :rolleyes:

The problem with that analysis is the detail.
A majority of voters did not agree with you in last years election.
Therefore they [the FF'ers] must have cocked it up since then.

Unless all our major banks are controlled by FF and the guys in lehmans were FF members,then your analysis is just another post looking for the easy fall guys again.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

Regardless of public servant or not, as consumers we all do foot the bill. It's not a matter of public sector pay. While that outstrips the private sector at the lower end of the scale, once you get to management level the private sector outstrips it and puts pressure on inflation.

.....and most pay rises are - at best - in order for the average Joe Soap to keep their head above water BECAUSE of unregulated inflation, a lot of which is caused by so-called "services" companies being privatised and allowed to pretty much do what they like.

But I'm not going to discuss my finances in public; as a Bertie supporter, you can probably appreciate that stance.

Particularly considering that - as stated above - the public aren't paying my wages and expenses.

Courtesy of the Government's ineptitude, they might well be soon, though.....working my ass off 6 days a week to roughtly break even and not even match ever-growing inflation and stealth taxes is getting tiresome.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

But I'm not going to discuss my finances in public; as a Bertie supporter, you can probably appreciate that stance.

How many times am I going to have to say that I'm a supporter and member of the Fianna Fáil party, which, despite your inability to understand on numerous occasions relating to Willie O'Dea et al. etc... is more than any one individual or any small group of members.

I appreciate you don't want to discuss your finances, why people have that hang up is beyond me though. Head above water seems a bit melodramatic, but I don't know your circumstances, so I'm going to have to take that at face value.

Just about keeping your head above the water does suggest something like you've had your bank manager on the phone questioning your ability to pay your mortgage or something similar. In that case, it's a matter of whatever needs to be done to keep a house.....why do I bother...I inevitably end up way off topic but on topic

Liam Byrne

OK, you have your stance and fair enough, although you have defended/"supported" Bertie on other threads, so my statement is correct. And speaking of not understanding, you've twice introduced irrelevant red herrings into this thread - the politicians' wives (not paid by the electorate) and even my finances (again, not paid by the electorate).

Politicians are elected to make decisions and to lead. They're getting paid about 5 times what I am (some of them even more, if you include donations and dig-outs) but most of it is coming out of my pocket through taxes.

As their employer / shareholder, and with an impending deficit of whatever billion figure they pluck out of the air this week, I'm entitled to propose that they take a pay cut.

For a Government that loves privatisation and the free capitalist market so much, they're pretty bad at applying the basics when a company is running at a loss.

Enda's taking a small step, but at least he's proposing something tangible and ethical in the circumstances.

So fair play to him.

ninty9er

Liam Byrne wrote: »

As their employer / shareholder, and with an impending deficit of whatever billion figure they pluck out of the air this week, I'm entitled to propose that they take a pay cut.

I agree with you...I have no issue there. But to take a real €3k cut and not apply any of the 5% cut to his allowances smacks of insincerity.....so he needn't have bothered as it's half arsed when examined correctly, though in principle...yes...fair play to him for taking a wage cut of €60 a week.

Liam Byrne

ninty9er wrote: »

......smacks of insincerity........yes...fair play to him for taking a wage cut of €60 a week.

Fair play to him for taking a wage cut of €60 a week while others do nothing.

Liam Byrne

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Enda's taking a small step, but at least he's proposing something tangible and ethical in the circumstances.
So fair play to him.

He didn't propose it.
He said it was populist nonsense on today fm's last word earlier in the week.

He then jumped on the very band wagon he derided the previous day.

The audio is in the link... Enjoy!

nesf

It's bare-faced simple populism, which isn't in itself a bad or ignoble thing and it makes sense for a politician to do it but I really don't see why we the people should cheer an action that is quite clearly just a publicity stunt and not something that actually aids in a meaningful way the situation at hand.

Liam Byrne

Deleted User wrote: »

He didn't propose it.
He said it was populist nonsense on today fm's last word earlier in the week.

He then jumped on the very band wagon he derided the previous day.

The audio is in the link... Enjoy!

I don't CARE who proposed it !! Loads of people propose or suggest lots of stuff and never actually DO it.

I'd have an issue if he'd proposed it and NOT done it, but the other way around is fine by me.

So - as a matter of interest - who DID propose it and have THEY done it ? If not, then THEY'RE the ones that should be derided!!!!

the_syco

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Fair play to him for taking a wage cut of €60 a week while others do nothing.

While others can't afford to do something. Not everyone has a nice big salary like Enda.