US national debt clock runs out of digits. Could Ireland do with one now?

Run_to_da_hills

Apparently the US national debt clock has runs out of digits as a temporaty measure they removed the $ sign to make way for an extra digit. This can last only for so long :eek:. http://blogs.wsj.com/economics/2008/10/09/sign-of-the-times-2/?mod=googlenews_wsj

Good question, Dose Ireland have it's own National Debt clock?
It may need one.

Jimbo

$10 trillion in national debt is absolutely shocking, even for the US.

edanto

Well spotted man, that is a sign of the times.

Damn.

Économiste Monétaire

edanto wrote: »

Well spotted man

This has been in the news for the last 2 days.

Économiste Monétaire

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Good question, Dose Ireland have it's own National Debt clock?
It may need one.

We're no where near the 1980s level of Debt to GNP. Wake up people.

Run_to_da_hills

UCD_Econ wrote: »

We're no where near the 1980s level of Debt to GNP. Wake up people.

It wouldn't take much to shift the balance back to 1980ies levels. Iceland is a classic example of an overnight "boom to bust" scenario.

Ireland could well go down that road, we have an overdependence on the hyped up property market, A large portion of our workforce depends on foreign multinationals that could pull the plug overnight due to excessive wages and overheads. We already have an an almost collapsed building sector.

In the 1980'ies everyone could afford basic accommodation which at the time was all taken for granted, not so today. It is going to be a costly headache for the state to house whole families if they loose their homes due to default mortgages and end up on the streets, not to mention paying them dole on top of this.

Économiste Monétaire

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

It wouldn't take much to shift the balance back to 1980ies levels. Iceland is a classic example of an overnight "boom to bust" scenario.

Ireland could well go down that road, we have an overdependence on the hyped up property market, A large portion of our workforce depends on foreign multinationals that could pull the plug overnight due to excessive wages and overheads. We already have an an almost collapsed building sector.

Our national debt would have to increase by around 200-250 per cent of the current amount to bring us back to the '80s level of debt to GNP.

I could also go to the moon in twenty years. I could go to France tomorrow. I could do a lot of things. What I will do is based on rationality and what's in the boundaries of possibility, because economics deals with rational people. Foreign multinationals have to consider their capital investments in Ireland, our tax rate, quality of graduates (i.e. the ubiquitous knowledge economy), their business models, et cetera. What proportion of the work force is directly employed by large multinational companies? Also, do you know the employment multipliers in those areas? I'm sure if every multinational company did leave Ireland it would be quite a travesty.

In the 1980'ies everyone could afford basic accommodation

There were no homeless in Ireland in the '80s?

It is going to be a costly headache for the state to house whole families if they loose their homes due to default mortgage repayments and end up on the streets, not to mention paying them dole on top of this.

What is the current default rate on mortgages?

edanto

What do you think the implications of the US National Debt will be on our economy?

Run_to_da_hills

UCD_Econ wrote: »

Foreign multinationals have to consider their capital investments in Ireland, our tax rate, quality of graduates (i.e. the ubiquitous knowledge economy), their business models, et cetera. What proportion of the work force is directly employed by large multinational companies? Also, do you know the employment multipliers in those areas? I'm sure if every multinational company did leave Ireland it would be quite a travesty.

Probably the biggest factor for foreign multinationals to relocate particularly in the IT sector is cheaper foreign labour, Ie China, Poland and India, examples of such would be Raychem (Tyco Electronics) Pacific Scientific Ennis, Seagate.

The executives of these company will simply look at figures, if they don’t balance they will simply just shut the doors and move on.

Ireland has now a new worrying trend of outsourcing administration which was unheard of in the 80ies. This is brought on by cheap telecommunication and Internet. Hibernian recently and God knows who will follow. There is becoming popular with other services such as web design. IE "Odesk". http://www.odesk.com/w/. With the rip off rates charged n this country I wouldn't anyone for outsourcing skills over the net.

UCD_Econ wrote: »

There were no homeless in Ireland in the '80s

It was a lot easier to get accommodation back then than it is now, rents were affordable and the average working man could afford to buy.

UCD_Econ wrote: »

What is the current default rate on mortgages?

I don't have any figures but according to the Irish Times last week Some 46 cases appeared on the Chancery Summonses list before Ms Justice Elizabeth Dunne. She said that next week's list was "very, very heavy”

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1007/1223323540990.html

Économiste Monétaire

edanto wrote: »

What do you think the implications of the US National Debt will be on our economy?

Nothing major, unless they attempt to correct the recent increase in national debt by raising taxes or implementing what John McCain was promoting: taxing American corporations in foreign countries that have low corporation tax rates to offset our advantage.

Économiste Monétaire

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Probably the biggest factor for foreign multinationals to relocate particularly in the IT sector is cheaper foreign labour, Ie China, Poland and India, examples of such would be Raychem (Tyco Electronics) Pacific Scientific Ennis, Seagate.

The executives of these company will simply look at figures, if they don’t balance they will simply just shut the doors and move on.

Companies perform cost-benefit analysis of their operations quite frequently. If we no longer land on the side of benefit (after all quantifiable costs, and others, have been taken into account) then it would make quite rational sense for them to leave.

It was a lot easier to get accommodation back then than it is now, rents were affordable and the average working man could afford to buy.

That's due to an asset bubble and a large quantity of new entrants to the property market. The point I was making was that not everyone could afford accommodation--there were homeless people, contrary to what you said.

None of the recent job losses and home repossessions were completely lacking during the expansionary years. Repossessions occurred during the boom years, people lost their jobs during the boom years, even now, during a period of tight credit control, people are buying houses (not many) and jobs are still being created. The point I'm trying to make is that none of this is new, it's just the business cycle (made worse by international events). Look at the percentage level of inflation, unemployment, national debt level, during the 1980s and our relative position has improved in that respect*. Your hypothesis that we need a debt clock for the national debt is odd.

*I'm not trying to say our fiscal situation hasn't become quite alarming.

Run_to_da_hills

UCD_Econ wrote: »

Your hypothesis that we need a debt clock for the national debt is odd.

Perhaps the government could resurrect the "time in the slime" add on a few extra digits and put it to another good use

Économiste Monétaire

I have to admit, that made me laugh :pac:

JohnWhale

There is a National Debt Clock for Ireland out there. http://www.nationaldebtclocks.com/ireland.htm

Over €17000 per capita at the moment, it is about time we had one, with unemployment rising out of control and home repossessions on the up too. Emigration taking our skilled workers abroad. The people need to know how much debt the government have built up on our behalf.

Flamed Diving

This whole UCD_Econ thing is a tad childish, don't you think?

Flamed Diving

JohnWhale wrote: »

There is a National Debt Clock for Ireland out there. http://www.nationaldebtclocks.com/ireland.htm

Over €17000 per capita at the moment, it is about time we had one, with unemployment rising out of control and home repossessions on the up too. Emigration taking our skilled workers abroad. The people need to know how much debt the government have built up on our behalf.

About nationaldebtclocks.com

This website has been set up to allow you to view the national debt of your country and to compare it with the national debt of other countries. It also shows the national debt per citizen which will allow you to make a more direct comparison. The clocks are created using the latest figures and forecasts from the governments in question and are updated as regularly as possible.

Right...

JohnWhale

Agreed. The website is pretty basic, but the numbers are accurate!

Compare it to http://www.ntma.ie/home.php