Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

Deedsie

So based on the readings throughout this thread? No one can be completely satisfied?

Would joint rule from Dublin/London be resisted by everyone? Split the number of MPs in two and have a TD and MP for each constituency. Allow the North to vote for The Irish President. And leave Northern Ireland Assembly have home rule for most issues.

Leave Northern Ireland in the Commonwealth. Set up a new flag and Anthem for the North. Set up an All ireland athletics team to compete in Commonwealth Games. No oaths of allegience to anyone they only get peoples backs up?

Permabear

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djpbarry

Camelot wrote: »

Cheers for that, & what do you think of its concept?

Concept's fine (I'm not terribly hung up on flags), but I'm afraid I'd have to agree with The Corinthian.

Camelot wrote: »

How did you get it up there in the first place without a url?

I is Jesus (v 1.39d).

getz

camelot and djbarry are you two going to get married ?

LordSutch

I'm afraid I am already promised to another see Post#213

Deedsie

Camelot wrote: »

I'm afraid I am already promised to another see Post#213

Hold the phone there Camelot. I went on through various posts to explain my views in that post.

Nodin

djpbarry wrote: »

I think this is what Camelot has in mind? Apologies if I got it wrong.

If the red X covered the words "Mentioning the War" I think all angles are covered.

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

So based on the readings throughout this thread? No one can be completely satisfied?

I think you're beginning to understand the principle problem with achieving unification that tends to be glossed over by romantics.

Deedsie

The Corinthian wrote: »

I think you're beginning to understand the principle problem with achieving unification that tends to be glossed over by romantics.

I always knew the situation was complex but i had presumed with a degree of naiveity that majority would mean at least a unification debate north and south.

Well what about the rest of that post? I made a few suggestions towards what would to me be a fair deal for everyone? NI would still be in the UK but also have seats in the Dáil.

Irlbo

Im sorry no compromise,no change in flags,anthems,traditions,anything,no compromise to unionists or Britain,an entirely sovreign 32 county republic is all that can surfice

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

Well what about the rest of that post? I made a few suggestions towards what would to me be a fair deal for everyone? NI would still be in the UK but also have seats in the Dáil.

Fair suggestions, but as our friend Irlbo has just pointed out some will still have their heads wedged too far up their own arses to read them, and there's enough of them to derail any deal.

"Other people have a nationality. The Irish and the Jews have a psychosis." - Brendan Behan

getz

Deedsie wrote: »

I always knew the situation was complex but i had presumed with a degree of naiveity that majority would mean at least a unification debate north and south.

Well what about the rest of that post? I made a few suggestions towards what would to me be a fair deal for everyone? NI would still be in the UK but also have seats in the Dáil.

this is very interesting, but if northern ireland had seats in the dail it would also mean that the republic would have seats in the parliament-back to 1920--the only way for a one country ireland is through a european goverment and that is a long way off

LordSutch

Nodin wrote: »

If the red X covered the words "Mentioning the War" I think all angles are covered.

. Nationalist . . . . . Unionist . . . . . Orange



The Red Cross (as you put it) is actually the
'Cross of St Patrick' which currently occupies
one third of the Flag of the United Kingdom . . .

Irlbo

I think the flag should be just green,I dont want any mention of unionists or peace with them on my nations flag

LordSutch

Irlbo wrote: »

I think the flag should be just green,I dont want any mention of unionists or peace with them on my nations flag

Maybe you should live in a mossy cave?

Deedsie

Irlbo wrote: »

I think the flag should be just green,I dont want any mention of unionists or peace with them on my nations flag

But that flies in the face of what the Proclomation of independence stood for:

"Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past."

I suppose that has to mean respecting all traditions. Look at the USA/South Africa. Two hotbeds of ethnic differences. Yet the majority of both countries all salute a single national flag.

Id hope a compromise could be made for Ireland. Two flags, Tricolour and whatever Northern Irelands new flag is to be.

Permabear

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The Corinthian

donegalfella wrote: »

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Indeed. We just agreed to it.

getz

Deedsie wrote: »

But that flies in the face of what the Proclomation of independence stood for:

"Irish Republic is entitled to, and hereby claims, the allegiance of every Irishman and Irishwoman. The Republic guarantees religious and civil liberty, equal rights and equal opportunities to all its citizens, and declares its resolve to pursue the happiness and prosperity of the whole nation and all of its parts, cherishing all of the children of the nation equally and oblivious of the differences carefully fostered by an alien government, which have divided a minority from the majority in the past."

I suppose that has to mean respecting all traditions. Look at the USA/South Africa. Two hotbeds of ethnic differences. Yet the majority of both countries all salute a single national flag.

Id hope a compromise could be made for Ireland. Two flags, Tricolour and whatever Northern Irelands new flag is to be.

there is a good irish web site www.reform.org that will give you a lot of answers to these questions that have been put on this thread

Permabear

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Nodin

donegalfella wrote: »

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And agreeing to shelve the commission on the border that suggested a few (not particularily large) changes........

O'Morris

donegalfella wrote: »

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Partition wasn't part of the treaty. The treaty granted the entire island dominion status under the crown with the option for the north to opt out if they wanted to. The jurisdiction of the free state when it was established included the entire island. The six counties were even part of that jurisdiction for three days in December 1922. The orangemen made the decision to opt out, not the nationalists. They're the people responsible for the partition of Ireland.

And the partition that was proposed at the time was only ever viewed as a temporary measure. Nationalists at the time expected that the north would not survive long on its own and that the country would be united again before long. Had people at the time realised that partition would have lasted for as long as it did the treaty would never have passed. Irish people have never accepted the partition of their country as a permanent political settlement.

The Corinthian

O'Morris wrote: »

Partition wasn't part of the treaty. The treaty granted the entire island dominion status under the crown with the option for the north to opt out if they wanted to.

But wouldn't accepting such an opt out be accepting partition?

Had people at the time realised that partition would have lasted for as long as it did the treaty would never have passed.

Conjecture stated as fact.

Irish people have never accepted the partition of their country as a permanent political settlement.

More conjecture stated as fact.

ilkhanid

"The thing about the use of the word 'Colony' in relation to Ireland, is that (as I have already daid) it has become 'fashionable' by some to call Ireland an ex-colony, which from a Unionist perspective makes no sense at all, because we see all the peoples of the british isles (Celtic, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Picts, etc) as having a connection as in 'One Big Family' - so the very idea of Ireland being a Colony is Ridiculous!"

One thing that has prompted the use of the term in relation to Ireland is this growth in academia of the fashionable subject of "post-colonial studies". The thing that baffles me is that in this subject we constantly see Ireland being compared with places like India,Jamaica and Australia. Surely examples closer to home would be more relevant? Even if we were to agree on whether Ireland was a colony at all,then surely examples from Europe itself would be more to the point. I'm thinking of places like Andalusia under the Moors and later the Spanish,Kosovo under the Ottomans and Serbs, Greece also under the Ottomans,the Czechs and Croats in the Austrian Empire and the Baltic States in the periods of German and Russian rule. Finland and Sicily also come to mind.

LordSutch

Did somebody wash my flag at the wrong temprature (its shrunk)

Nodin

ilkhanid wrote: »

"The thing about the use of the word 'Colony' in relation to Ireland, is that (as I have already daid) it has become 'fashionable' by some to call Ireland an ex-colony, which from a Unionist perspective makes no sense at all, because we see all the peoples of the british isles (Celtic, Angles, Saxons, Normans, Picts, etc) as having a connection as in 'One Big Family' - so the very idea of Ireland being a Colony is Ridiculous!"

Well, if in your family you kicked out your granny to house some other relation and treated your offspring as second class citizens for a few hundred years, I suppose you could have a point.

getz

the only thing that kept the republic from going bust from the 1920s- was the willingness of the united kingdom to trade and give free access to people from the republic to find work ,so they could feed their family ,remember they did not have to do that. this was noted and remarked on by your president on a visit to the uk-thats why my irish ancestors came over like over one million irish men and and their familys since-one thread said we are all one race on these western isles ,i believe that true -i notice that the DNA samples taken of peoples in the uk have come up with a result that most have a celtic background , not all celts went to ireland most stayed and intergrated with the roman invaders -history is strangly changing

gurramok

djpbarry wrote: »

I just went by the summary in Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elections_in_Northern_Ireland

Updating post. News today about the register. Its at 1.142m, the same level as it was in 2005 before it went downhill
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1201/1227910421538.html

June 10 2004 - 1,072m http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/re2004.htm
May 5 2005 - 1.142m http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/rd2005.htm
Mar 7 2007 - 1.107m http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/politics/election/2007nia/ra2007.htm
Dec 1st 2008 - 1.142m

From the above, its crystal clear there was disappearing volumes of voters and probably still are despite the population increase in the same period.

djpbarry

getz wrote: »

...i notice that the DNA samples taken of peoples in the uk have come up with a result that most have a celtic background...

I'd be extremely surprised if that were true.

Permabear

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