Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

Deedsie

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it? From where I’m sitting, Ireland is totally flooded with British culture; sport, TV, tabloid media, cinema, etc.

I noticed your location is Dublin. Might be something do do with that view. I know alot of Irish people who wouldnt read any tabloid media, Soccer and Rugby are international sporting events being played on this island for over 100 years. Are Argentinians, Brazilians, Italians immersed in British Culture?

They are a part of Irish culture now. They are still not the largest sporting organisation or the most successful. Thats the GAA. If you are talking about soaps, when you say TV. I hate to say it but you have me there. Horrendous inventions that RTÉ should be made minimize. Apparently Ros na Run is increasing its audience though.

gurramok

The Corinthian wrote: »

And I retorted that they are on much the same level as the English, Welsh or Scots, IMHO.

Just saw this post:

• People are the same ethnic group based upon their ideology (nationalism). Forget that ideology has nothing to do with ethnicity.
• Artificial borders do not change this - as opposed to natural ones, I suppose...

I like you gurramok; you remind me of when I was young and clueless.

Glad you make me feel young again and clueful

Many ethnic groups cross artificial borders, it does not split the idea of nationhood among these groups.

djpbarry wrote:

Is it? From where I’m sitting, Ireland is totally flooded with British culture; sport, TV, tabloid media, cinema, etc.

Must stop eating those hamburgers, i'd turn German next.

Better stop eating pizza like an Italian.

Or stop watching 24 on tv, i'd turn into an American hoping Bauer saves the president

jimmmy

Deedsie wrote: »

Apparently Ros na Run is increasing its audience though.

Who are Ros na Rua ? Were they on X-factor ?

Irish language is a dead language, pity they picked that for a name. In all the years since I left school, I never saw an Irish language newspaper in a newsagents, or heard a sentence of Irish spoken, even though I have travelled widely throughout the 32 counties. What a waste the billions spent on it has been, esp. given the state of our govt. borrowings / the repayments our children + grandchildren will have to make.

Deedsie

jimmmy wrote: »

Who are Ros na Rua ? Were they on X-factor ?

Irish language is a dead language, pity they picked that for a name. In all the years since I left school, I never saw an Irish language newspaper in a newsagents, or heard a sentence of Irish spoken, even though I have travelled widely throughout the 32 counties. What a waste the billions spent on it has been, esp. given the state of our govt. borrowings / the repayments our children + grandchildren will have to make.

Jeez, thats mad. Ros na Rún is a tv soap on Teilifís na Gaeilge.

I did a course in Irish recently, was really good. You wouldnt be long getting it back. I speak Irish when i have someone to speak it with. Its a shame true enough that the language is faltering. But it is far from dead.

The total number of Irish Gaelscoileanna(both inside and outside the Gaeltacht) in Ireland is 368 primary and secondary schools.

Within the Gaeltacht: 127 primary schools : 29 secondary schools with approximately 15,000 students at primary and secondary level.
Outside the Gaeltacht: 171 primary schools: 43 secondary schools with approximately 35,500 students at primary and secondary level.
The "Naíonraí" Irish language preschool movement also has 227 creches across the country with almost 4,000 children attending them.

There are currently over 35,500 pupils(50,000 pupils/students total both inside and outside the Gaeltacht) attending gaelscoileanna, with 298 gaelscoileanna at primary level and 72 schools at post-primary level (gaelcholáistí), in the Republic of Ireland and Northern Ireland.

You'd never know. A few decades down the line the Gaelic leagues aims for a bilingual Ireland may come to pass?

djpbarry

Deedsie wrote: »

I know alot of Irish people who wouldnt read any tabloid media…

So do I, but the fact remains that a very large number of people in this country regularly read British tabloids. The National Newspapers of Ireland have some figures on readership here. I would imagine British glossy mags also sell very well in Ireland.

Deedsie wrote: »

…Soccer and Rugby are international sporting events being played on this island for over 100 years.

I was actually referring to all the British soccer fans in this country.

Deedsie wrote: »

They are still not the largest sporting organisation or the most successful. Thats the GAA.

I wouldn’t be so sure about that:

Football is the biggest participation and most popular team sport in Ireland, according to the ESRI, with an estimated 450,000 people actively involved on a regular basis.

http://www.fai.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=1365&Itemid=9

More on this here:

Soccer is the most popular team sport. GAA football and hurling come sixth and eleventh.

http://www.esri.ie/UserFiles/publications/20070223162340/BKMNINT178_Main%20Text%20Chapters%201-4.pdf

SirHenryGrattan

Camelot wrote: »

So 402,658 people in Northern Ireland have either renewed an Irish passport (or got one for the first time).

As regards Northern Irish people being British, well YES that is true for the majority of people living in that part of the United Kingdom, and to be honest, there is such a fine line between being British or Irish, Celtic, Northern Irish, Anglo Saxon, Scottish, Welsh, English, that it hardly matters anyway in this day & age, its a personal choice as well as being a regional/cultural thing .

What is the difference between British or Irish? the Queen or Mary McAleese? this island or the one next door? > it makes little or no difference to me, I consider being british or irish to be a regional/ cultural thing with the differences between one or the other being very minor, much like the blurred boundaries between some of the Christian Churches who, when looked at closely are pretty similar.

What is the difference between British or Irish? the Queen or Mary McAleese? this island or the one next door? > it makes little or no difference to me, I consider being british or irish to be a regional/ cultural thing with the differences between one or the other being very minor, much like the blurred boundaries between some of the Christian Churches who, when looked at closely are pretty similar.[/QUOTE]

The Irish are more similar in attitude to the Americans and the Australians. In fact they are very like the Australians. Would one say that the Australians are very like the English? Possibly.

The Irish do not have a class system and most of the non Anglo Irish have absolutely no affinity for the Monarchy. That's at least two stark cultural differences.

SirHenryGrattan

donegalfella wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

The Irish would have probably become bi-lingual, perhaps like the Scandanavians many of whom speak better English then we do. Have you ever heard a European say they thought their country was disadvantaged because English was not the first language?

SirHenryGrattan

Camelot wrote: »

Thanks 4 the reply Irlbo, and I take your points on board, but I still struggle with the Ethnicity question when it comes to being Ethnically Irish or Ethnically British, I just cant see an 'Ethnic' distinction.

Ethnicity is an imprecise term.

An ethnic group is a group of human beings whose members identify with each other, usually on a presumed or real common heritage.

The UK recognizes "White Irish" and "White British" as distinct ethnic groups.

25% of the total UK population or approximately 14 million of the white British claim Irish descent. The 2001 census included the category "White Irish" as an ethnic classification in Great Britain (England, Scotland and Wales). Non-British and non-Irish respondents in Great Britain could choose "White Other". Neither of these classifications appeared in Northern Ireland.

I have seen Police Officers request the ethnicity of the driver when issuing traffic infringement notices. The drivers were listed as "White British".

Grudaire

The Corinthian wrote: »

Which one? Irish or Ulster Scots?

Is Ulster Scots actually a language, in the sense does anyone actually use it, when did it come into being, the only experience that I have of it is Waterways Ireland, Uiscebealaí na hÉireann, Wetterways Airleann (or a sign to that effect)

LordSutch

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

The Irish are more similar in attitude to the Americans and the Australians. In fact they are very like the Australians. Would one say that the Australians are very like the English? Possibly.

Its a circular argument SirHenry, yes there are similarities between the Irish & the Aussies & the Yanks, but thats because we (England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales) were the original white settlers ~ so why would'nt there be similarities!

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

The Irish do not have a class system and most of the non Anglo Irish have absolutely no affinity for the Monarchy. That's at least two stark cultural differences.

Yes indeed, there are cultural differences between Ireland & Britain & between various regions of the UK ~ there are many Monarchists in the Republic, and there are just as many Non Monarchists in many parts of Britain, but it doesnt mean that we are all of a different Ethnic group ~ does it?

mike65

Ireland has no class system? Really?

mike65

Deedsie wrote: »

Ireland has alot in common with the UK, but Ireland is different in its culture to the mainland UK. I think the North and Ireland have alot more in common throughout nationalist and Unionist communities than the North has with the mainland UK. IMO

Don't most southerners go North only to shop? Many indeed possibly most Irish families have relations in Britain, not to mention the hundreds of thousands who have lived at least part of thier lives there over the last century.

gurramok

mike65 wrote: »

Don't most southerners go North only to shop? Many indeed possibly most Irish families have relations in Britain, not to mention the hundreds of thousands who have lived at least part of thier lives there over the last century.

A few southerners have relations on the nationalist side of the family as you know they are part of the same ethnic group.

Yes, most Irish families have relations in Britain including mine, whats your point?

RiverWilde

mike65 wrote: »

Ireland has no class system? Really?

Yes there is most definitely a class system in Ireland. It just isn't as overt as you'd find in other countries.

Riv

Deedsie

mike65 wrote: »

Don't most southerners go North only to shop? Many indeed possibly most Irish families have relations in Britain, not to mention the hundreds of thousands who have lived at least part of thier lives there over the last century.

No we dont only travel North to shop, thats not a new phenomenon but at recent levels it is. We travel North to compete in the National Hurling and Football Leagues. To visit family, alot of Irish people work in cross border businesses and attend college in the North. 3 examples that are not just shopping.

Yes they did, and the majority of Irish Immigrants to the UK still identify themselves as Irish. Highlighting the long existing difference between Irish and British.

The monarchy issue is one thing that makes me feel very different to Britons. I hate the thought of putting an unelected person on such a pedestle. God knows the Irish government flittered away crazy amounts of money in the past. But how typical Britons can live with this family spending all there money. Keeping a class system in place that is completely unfair to the masses.

Ireland has a class system, but it is no where near as pronounced as the UK. Mostly middle class now id think.

Has anyone an opinion on my post at 496?

jimmmy

Deedsie wrote: »

The monarchy issue is one thing that makes me feel very different to Britons. I hate the thought of putting an unelected person on such a pedestle. God knows the Irish government flittered away crazy amounts of money in the past. But how typical Britons can live with this family spending all there money.

If the monarchy system is the only thing you can complain about then you have little to worry about. Spain, Denmark, Holland etc have monarchies as well...yet you do not complain about them. The UK monarchy actually pays for itself and generates employment - the cost of it is more than offset by the tourism revenue and goodwill it generates. Unlike our Mary ....the cost of several million per year to sustain her + her overheads has to be spread among our relatively small population.

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

The monarchy issue is one thing that makes me feel very different to Britons. I hate the thought of putting an unelected person on such a pedestle.

No we just used to do this for the Pope.

But he was elected. Sort of.

Deedsie

The Corinthian wrote: »

No we just used to do this for the Pope.

But he was elected. Sort of.

In a Catholic country. How could we? The pope is elected. And as far as i know no Catholic can be K or Q of the UK?

And Jimmy where did i say its the only thing i have to complain about? I said its a topic that i feel seperates me from Britons. Put words in peoples mouth much. I have lots of other things to complain about.

djpbarry

SirHenryGrattan wrote: »

Have you ever heard a European say they thought their country was disadvantaged because English was not the first language?

It's a very common argument, particularly from Eurosceptics in this country, that should Ireland decide to "go it alone" and leave the EU, one of the key advantages that we would have when competing for foreign investment is the fact that we are an English-speaking country.

djpbarry

Deedsie wrote: »

Yes they did, and the majority of Irish Immigrants to the UK still identify themselves as Irish. Highlighting the long existing difference between Irish and British.

It doesn’t highlight anything other than the fact that people will usually identify more strongly with their birthplace than with their current place of residence.

Deedsie wrote: »

The monarchy issue is one thing that makes me feel very different to Britons. I hate the thought of putting an unelected person on such a pedestle.

I’m not a fan of monarchies either, but as jimmmy has already pointed out, the British monarchy generates a fortune in tourist income.

Nodin

The Corinthian wrote: »

No we just used to do this for the Pope.

But he was elected. Sort of.

In an 'Irish Senate' sort of way.

Deedsie

Nodin wrote: »

In an 'Irish Senate' sort of way.

Better than "Divine Right"

Give me a break.

T runner

Camelot wrote: »

Its a circular argument SirHenry, yes there are similarities between the Irish & the Aussies & the Yanks, but thats because we (England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales) were the original white settlers ~ so why would'nt there be similarities!

Thats is only true of Australia, Camelot. America had a far more represenative European population. The original English WASP settlers (Yankees) most definately felt they were from a different Ethnic Group to the Irish.

Yes indeed, there are cultural differences between Ireland & Britain & between various regions of the UK ~ there are many Monarchists in the Republic, and there are just as many Non Monarchists in many parts of Britain, but it doesnt mean that we are all of a different Ethnic group ~ does it?

There are far more non-monarchists in Britain than Monarchists in Ireland.

If you want to talk about ethnic groups, the English would have more in common with the peoples of Saxony and other parts of North Germany than with the Welsh or Scottish. Even less so with the Irish.
The point is the Union of the peoples here was not a happy marriage of like minded cultures: rather it was brought about by the imperial domination of one very strong nation over the other three.

Remember the English got on so well with the Scots they tried to change its name to " North Britain". The British Empire, was basically an English Empire.
The Head of the British Empire is always the English Monarch.
The fact that these divisions still exist today in Britain after 1500 years is proof of their reality and starkness.

The divisions in Ireland are different and are based on religion. (nearly all Irish Unionists are protestant, the significance of this is huge). Supra-national loyalty among Irish people to Britain is not because they are British it is by and large because they are protestant.

jimmmy

Deedsie wrote: »

The pope is elected.

Maybe, but not by you or me or any of the people who live in my street in Ireland. Anyway I wish him well...he may have been in the Nazi party in his youth but that was the done thing then in his area in that era. Sure was 'nt both Hitler and Mussolini both Roman Catholics ?

LordSutch

T runner wrote: »

There are far more non-monarchists in Britain than Monarchists in Ireland.

Apparently after Princess Diana's death the queue in Dublin to sign the book of condolence was just as long, or longer than many cities on the island next door, there has always been a fascination, liking, curiousity, for Royalty in Ireland.

T runner wrote: »

If you want to talk about ethnic groups, the English would have more in common with the peoples of Saxony and other parts of North Germany than with the Welsh or Scottish. Even less so with the Irish.

Would you consider the 'Irish' to be the same Ethnic group as the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish?

T runner wrote: »

The British Empire, was basically an English Empire.
The Head of the British Empire is always the English Monarch.

An English Empire As far as I am aware, the Irish were right in the mix when it came to Making & Running the British Empire, nowhere has it been said that the British Empire was an 'English Empire' indeed it has been said that 'The Irish Won the Empire' ~ The Scots administered it ~ and the English lost it ...............
dunno what the Welsh did

T runner wrote: »

The divisions in Ireland are different and are based on religion. (nearly all Irish Unionists are protestant, the significance of this is huge). Supra-national loyalty among Irish people to Britain is not because they are British it is by and large because they are protestant.

These are not Ethnic differences, rather cultural & regional differences between the peoples of the british isles.

djpbarry

T runner wrote: »

If you want to talk about ethnic groups, the English would have more in common with the peoples of Saxony and other parts of North Germany than with the Welsh or Scottish.

So someone from Carlisle has more in common with someone from Rostock than they do with someone from Dumfries? Someone from Chester has more in common with someone from Bremen than they do with someone from Wrexham? You don't think that's a bit ridiculous?

T runner wrote: »

...nearly all Irish Unionists are protestant...

Not sure about that. Undoubtedly a lot of unionists are most likely protestant, but that doesn't mean they all are. Of course, that depends on what you mean by "nearly all".

Deedsie

jimmmy wrote: »

Maybe, but not by you or me or any of the people who live in my street in Ireland. Anyway I wish him well...he may have been in the Nazi party in his youth but that was the done thing then in his area in that era. Sure was 'nt both Hitler and Mussolini both Roman Catholics ?

The pope is appointed by a group of Cardinals i think. Id rather that than the Divine right of God selecting one person who is supposedly better than everyone else. All people should be seen as equal in this day and age. the leader of a nation should be elected by the people.

Arent there members of the royal family going around dressed up as Nazi's? Embarrasing Britain if you ask me. Why are you mentioning Hitler and Mussolini in this thread? Dictators? Cromwell was a protestant, doubt many Irish voted him in?

The UK takes pride in being one of the worlds first democracies, unless you were a Catholic Irish man of course.

jimmmy

Deedsie wrote: »

The pope is appointed by a group of Cardinals i think.

The same group and system who in the 20th century did not excommunicate Hitler or Mussolini ?

Deedsie wrote: »

Id rather that than the Divine right of God selecting one person who is supposedly better than everyone else.

Nobody suggested the Queen or King of the UK, Spain, Denmark etc is supposedly better than everyone else. Is has been suggested by some though that the Pope is better than everyone else ?

Deedsie wrote: »

All people should be seen as equal in this day and age. the leader of a nation should be elected by the people.

I agree entirely. The leader of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries is democratically elected.

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

I agree entirely. The leader of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries is democratically elected.

The Head of State however....

jimmmy

Cliste wrote: »

The Head of State however....

I would not especially like to be head of state of the UK, Spain , Holland etc...it would be like living in a glasshouse on public exhibition.

The heads of state of those countries do not bother me and I do not bother them. As a catholic I have seen many of my friends emigrate to or visit those countries over the years , and it does not bother them either. Live + let live. If the population of those countries wanted to vote the monarchy out, they would do so. The UK monarchy is very sucessful at attracting massive tourism revenue in to the UK. I remember when Charles + Di were getting married it would have been a perfect time to rob a bank here, as the streets , roads etc were deserted. Even when Di died books of condolences were opened around the country in many public offices, and were very well supported. I personally would not cross the road to see anyone, be it Mary McAleese or the Royal family of any country, be it UK , Spain, Denmark, Greece or wherever.

getz

djpbarry wrote: »

Is it? From where I’m sitting, Ireland is totally flooded with British culture; sport, TV, tabloid media, cinema, etc.
The same could be said for just about any other “ethnic grouping” on the planet, Irish people included. Or perhaps you could explain why “being Irish” is different?
So Irish people fall into that category then, don’t they? I mean, there’s no evidence of human activity on this island prior to about 10,000 years ago, so our ancestors must have migrated here form elsewhere.

are we all on these islands the same culture ? well i get up in the morning and have a irish/english breakfast shop in the same shops as in the uk/ireland have a drink in the pub uk/ireland watch the same tv uk/ireland listen to the same pop music uk ireland -if you go out on the town it would be the same as glasgow cardiff manchester dublin cork or liverpool the same people same language the same scum as well hanging around--you will find in any of the bars english irish scotts and welsh ,and we all get on well together no one has ever been anything but nice to me in ireland ,and i would like to think its the same for the irish in the uk --that makes us the same culture

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

I would not especially like to be head of state of the UK, Spain , Holland etc...it would be like living in a glasshouse on public exhibition.

I was just making the point that you were needlessly playing with words...:)


To be honest a simple question was asked and now there are people arguing about the class system over the greater European area, and I mean I used to have great conversations as Gaeilge with the indian guy in our school. However I am very 'nationalist', such is life:D

jimmmy

Cliste wrote: »

I was just making the point that you were needlessly playing with words

No you were not, you were just trying to make points and I corrected you, as you were wrong.

slapbangwhallop

jimmmy wrote: »

100 years ago we were united with Britain and had world class infrastructure eg trains, harbours ( the airports of their time ), universities, canals, public buildings etc. Many train journeys then took the same amount of time as they do now !. 100 years ago a letter got to London from Ireland quicker than it does now ! Colonisation was the done thing in Europe in centuries gone by - Belgium, Germany, Spain, Portugal, Holland etc were all at it, and Ireland on its own would have been at it if it was strong enough ( the same as eg Achill would be a republic now if it was strong enough - like if it had enough people + resources etc ). Did you know than 25% of the British administration in India was made up of Irish people ? We played a large part in Britains administration of 25% of the world. Ireland was not a colony, we were relatively speaking part of the first world at the time, the same as eg Scotland. The history of this island is interwoven with our neighbouring island, the same as the two islands of New Zealand are interconnected for example.

yes I remember being told of the world class conditions that my great-grandfather lived in, the world class education they recieved and the world class job prospects they could look forward to! sheesh!

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

No you were not, you were just trying to make points and I corrected you, as you were wrong.

you said that:

"The leader of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries is democratically elected. "

and I made the point that the Queen is not. (she isn't is she?)

Deedsie

getz wrote: »

are we all on these islands the same culture ? well i get up in the morning and have a irish/english breakfast shop in the same shops as in the uk/ireland have a drink in the pub uk/ireland watch the same tv uk/ireland listen to the same pop music uk ireland -if you go out on the town it would be the same as glasgow cardiff manchester dublin cork or liverpool the same people same language the same scum as well hanging around--you will find in any of the bars english irish scotts and welsh ,and we all get on well together no one has ever been anything but nice to me in ireland ,and i would like to think its the same for the irish in the uk --that makes us the same culture

That might be what you do with your (healthy) lifestyle choice and opinion. But how can you say who did those things first. Was it not the Irish immigrants brought this culture to the UK? They are copying us. England is even Nationalist now for feck sake. The will have a tricolour in twenty years ill bet.

Our cultures are similar, that is the globalised mono-cultural world we live in God help us all. (You could walk through any city in Britain or Ireland and think you were in south central LA) Does that make me American, cause some fool carries on like a hip hop singer?

Most Counties in Irelands biggest sporting events are GAA. An expression of our difference to anywhere else in the world. RTÉ is pumped into nearly every house in Ireland and if you put an average Briton down watching our News and entertainment programmes he wouldnt have a clue what was going on, because he is British and we are Irish.

The longest running programme on RTÉ is the Angelus. The BBC hardly covers Catholic programming? The vast majority of Irish people are Catholics, Britons are not. Antother Difference.

You cant accuse the Irish people of being British because the world has become globalised. If thats the case we are all American, Man...

jimmmy

Cliste wrote: »

you said that:

"The leader of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries is democratically elected. "

and I made the point that the Queen is not. (she isn't is she?)

The Queen of where ? Denmark ? Spain ? Oh, I know, you mean the queen of the UK, because of our natural ties in these islands ? As a catholic I have no problem with any Queen, more power to her whichever one you mean. They bring in tourism revenue. The leaders of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries are democratically elected, because the leaders there have real power. The Queen has no real power in the everyday running of the governments there + does not interfere.

Grudaire

jimmmy wrote: »

The Queen of where ? Denmark ? Spain ? Oh, I know, you mean the queen of the UK, because of our natural ties in these islands ? As a catholic I have no problem with any Queen, more power to her whichever one you mean. They bring in tourism revenue. The leaders of the UK, Ireland, Spain and most western countries are democratically elected, because the leaders there have real power. The Queen has no real power in the everyday running of the governments there + does not interfere.

But you answered this:

"All people should be seen as equal in this day and age. the leader of a nation should be elected by the people. "

Of course we've ties with Great Britain, they feckin owned us, and look at the thread, what queen do you really think I'm talking about :rolleyes:

Anyway what exactly are we discussing here?

T runner

Camelot wrote: »

Apparently after Princess Diana's death the queue in Dublin to sign the book of condolence was just as long, or longer than many cities on the island next door, there has always been a fascination, liking, curiousity, for Royalty in Ireland.

That hardly makes them monarchists does it? It means they liked Princess Diana.

Would you consider the 'Irish' to be the same Ethnic group as the Scots, Welsh or Northern Irish?

More similar ethnically to the Scots who are a mixture of "picts, Irish (Scots), Britons (same as welsh), Vikings, and Anglo Saxons).

Ethnically, Northern Irish are Irish, although may have more Scot in them in the North East but nothing out of line with Irish regional variations.

An English Empire As far as I am aware, the Irish were right in the mix when it came to Making & Running the British Empire, nowhere has it been said that the British Empire was an 'English Empire' indeed it has been said that the Irish won the Empire ~ The Scots administered it ~ and the English lost it ...............
dunno what the Welsh did

I dont know about that saying, maybe it refers to Nelson, was he Irish?

The fact is the British Empire started with the conquest of Wales, Scotland and Ireland (by right of conquest). None of these countries were willing participants in the country they were forced into by England never mind the Empire that resulted in subsequent English colonialism. England was more or less always the colonial power in Britain and Ireland after the anglo-saxon advance.

These are not Ethnic differences, rather cultural & regional differences between the peoples of the british isles.

The British Isles is a geographical term coined by some Roman mapmaker.
It is not the name of a country: rather an Island group consisting of 2 major islands and several small ones (Even though Ireland (The third largest Island in Europe) is an Island a lot, lot longer than Britain).
The group contains 4 nationalities Irish, English, Scottish and Welsh.
The people in Britain who would describe their nationality as Scottish, English and Welsh would outnumber the people claiming to be British.
Over 80% of people living in Ireland would describe themselves as Irish. Most of the 20% who describe themselves as British are nearly all protestants in the far North East of the country.
They may hold allegiance to Britain but, and I dont mean any disrespect here, they are not from Britain and therefore not British.
Even the pro-union historian ATQ Stewart admits as much.

T runner

djpbarry wrote: »

So someone from Carlisle has more in common with someone from Rostock than they do with someone from Dumfries? Someone from Chester has more in common with someone from Bremen than they do with someone from Wrexham? You don't think that's a bit ridiculous?

I dont think its ridiculous as I was answering a point about ethnic groups.

Not sure about that. Undoubtedly a lot of unionists are most likely protestant, but that doesn't mean they all are. Of course, that depends on what you mean by "nearly all".

I would guess 95%. Enough to demonstrate that the divisions are religious.

djpbarry

Deedsie wrote: »

That might be what you do with your (healthy) lifestyle choice and opinion. But how can you say who did those things first.

What difference does it make? The point is the similarities exist.

Deedsie wrote: »

RTÉ is pumped into nearly every house in Ireland and if you put an average Briton down watching our News and entertainment programmes he wouldnt have a clue what was going on, because he is British and we are Irish.

You’re obviously overlooking the fact that a large amount of the “entertainment” screened by RTE is either British or American in origin. As for the news, my wife’s British-born and she seems to be able to follow the RTE news just fine, thanks.

If the Irish and British are so incredibly different, then why have so many British people moved to Ireland and vice versa?

Deedsie wrote: »

The longest running programme on RTÉ is the Angelus. The BBC hardly covers Catholic programming?

So?

Deedsie wrote: »

The vast majority of Irish people are Catholics, Britons are not. Antother Difference.

You’re really clutching at straws now. I seriously doubt that the “vast majority” of Irish people are practicing Catholics.

Deedsie wrote: »

You cant accuse the Irish people of being British because the world has become globalised.

Likewise, it’s impossible to deny that American and British culture has had a massive influence on this country.

djpbarry

T runner wrote: »

The people in Britain who would describe their nationality as Scottish, English and Welsh would outnumber the people claiming to be British.

I don’t know about that. I would imagine most people would consider themselves British and whatever – there’s no reason why the two have to be mutually exclusive. If people really thought as you say they do, the union would have broken up long ago.

T runner wrote: »

Over 80% of people living in Ireland would describe themselves as Irish. Most of the 20% who describe themselves as British are nearly all protestants in the far North East of the country.

Hmm. I think that’s a different country you’re referring to there.

T runner wrote: »

They may hold allegiance to Britain but, and I dont mean any disrespect here, they are not from Britain...

Indeed. They are from the UK.

T runner wrote: »

I dont think its ridiculous as I was answering a point about ethnic groups.

You claimed that English people have more in common with people in Northern Germany than they do with people in Wales and Scotland. Apart from being ridiculously general, I used two very simple examples to illustrate how absurd that claim is.

T runner wrote: »

I would guess 95%. Enough to demonstrate that the divisions are religious.

It’s actually about 70%, according to this survey:
http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2007/Political_Attitudes/UNINATID.html

So a sizeable minority of the unionist population do not consider themselves protestant. Personally, I think 70% falls well short of “nearly all”.

Grudaire

djpbarry wrote: »

So a sizeable minority of the unionist population do not consider themselves protestant. Personally, I think 70% falls well short of “nearly all”.

Not exactly, 18% of non-religious are Unionist, not 18% of Unionist are non-religious.... depends on how many non-religious there are really:D

djpbarry

Cliste wrote: »

Not exactly, 18% of non-religious are Unionist, not 18% of Unionist are non-religious....

Ah, sorry. Yes, I had that the wrong way around.

Grudaire

and if you look in the technical notes it's around 2% of all Northerner's are non-religious and Unionist, while 31% (ish) are Protestant unionist,

So actually it's less then 8% of all Unionists are non-religious

edit: I don't know why I'm assuming that the sample is a representation of actual peoples in the six counties, disregard above!

1huge1

slapbangwhallop wrote: »

yes I remember being told of the world class conditions that my great-grandfather lived in, the world class education they recieved and the world class job prospects they could look forward to! sheesh!

I don't believe he was saying that we were better off being part of the British empire by any means, just the fact that they were able to manage the country better in a lot of ways back then compared to now.

LordSutch

1huge1 wrote: »

I don't believe he was saying that we were better off being part of the British empire by any means, just the fact that they were able to manage the country better in a lot of ways back then compared to now.

Re Empire; May I suggest you should read Post#526 again.

TOMASJ

[quote=Camelot;58611927

]Apparently after Princess Diana's death the queue in Dublin to sign the book of condolence was just as long, or longer than many cities on the island next door, there has always been a fascination, liking, curiousity, for Royalty in Ireland.

If I remember this period correctly, Her Maj was close to being lynched by her English subjects,for her lack of feelings over the death of her very popular daughter in law, and her Muslim boy friend,
you could not have picked a worse example to portray Irish interest in the royal family

slapbangwhallop

1huge1 wrote: »

I don't believe he was saying that we were better off being part of the British empire by any means, just the fact that they were able to manage the country better in a lot of ways back then compared to now.

5 minutes saved on a journey from "Kingstown" to Dublin is hardly a strong case! :rolleyes:

Grudaire

1huge1 wrote: »

I don't believe he was saying that we were better off being part of the British empire by any means, just the fact that they were able to manage the country better in a lot of ways back then compared to now.

I mean look at the roads up North they're so much better:rolleyes:

I think we were doing fine and dandy with the Norman invaders.