Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

GuanYin

donegalfella wrote: »

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A Ph.D. is not a general level of experise,r ather a specific one, nor is a 10 month postdoctoral post after your Ph.D. (most groups offer these periods for graduates and the quality of the work is usually rather undefined, depending on the contract, were I looking at her CV, 10 months would not convince me that it was an actual research contract rather than some odds and ends).

While in her current area she is certainly an expert, I severely doubt that one could apply that credibly to the matter at hand and it was seriously poor reporting by that paper to do so.

I know several experts in the area, they're generally publishing senior author papers on the subject in high ranking journals, Dr. Hill, doesn't appear to be doing so.

Permabear

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GuanYin

donegalfella wrote: »

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You could argue that the migration of an agricultural society could be mirrored in that of livestock, but I'm not sure that would be so much about genetics as anthropology.

Permabear

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1huge1

Speaking as a limerickman who has a lot of family up north from both religions, the general view is simply that their NORTHERN IRISH, they are aware that they are part of the UK and are generally fine with that, people ask them what nationality they are and they answer northern irish, I personally prefer this as it gives them their own entity and as far as I can see the majority of people are not concerned with a united ireland at this moment in time.

This is my opinion so feel free to flame me but there are just simply more important issues. I'm not turning my back on my history but I think its important to point out that people are fairly happy with the current situation.

oscarBravo

1huge1 wrote: »

...feel free to flame me...

Actually, don't.

TOMASJ

1huge1 wrote: »

Speaking as a limerickman who has a lot of

This is my opinion

so feel free to flame

I live up North, as you put it, an have honestly never heard the term NORTHERN IRISH, used by more than 4 people in my lifetime to describe their Nationality, I have heard BRITISH ,ULSTERMAN/WOMAN & IRISH, on hundreds of occasions,
I haven't a clue where the brainbox who was writing about it in (I think the Belfast Telegraph) came by their information as to how many use the term,
I can only guess that its a P.C phrase used by some people not to offend the feelings of a different persuasion in their company.

Jack Sheehan

TOMASJ wrote: »

This is my opinion I live up North, as you put it, an have honestly never heard the term NORTHERN IRISH, used by more than 4 people in my lifetime to describe their Nationality, I have heard BRITISH ,ULSTERMAN/WOMAN & IRISH, on hundreds of occasions,
I haven't a clue where the brainbox who was writing about it in (I think the Belfast Telegraph) came by their information as to how many use the term,
I can only guess that its a P.C phrase used by some people not to offend the feelings of a different persuasion in their company.

How is it a PC term to identify yourself with your country rather than another?
You seem to deny the existence of Northern Ireland as anything other than a transitional state.

TOMASJ

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

How is it a PC term to identify yourself with your country rather than another?

Northern Ireland is not a country,

You seem to deny the existence of Northern Ireland as anything other than a transitional state.

Why? what do you think it is?

1huge1

While I know it isnt the most credible of sources I have to point out the first sentence on wikipedia's article on northern ireland.

Northern Ireland is a country which is part of the United Kingdom

Northern Ireland is a country.

If you really want to get technical it is a constituent country but its a country all the same

Edit: At this stage im unsure as im getting conflicting statements. some say its a country and some don't. So disregard my post

cson

TOMASJ wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not a country

Correct. It's part of a kingdom.

The United Kingdom of Great Britain & Northern Ireland.

The Corinthian

1huge1 wrote: »

Northern Ireland is a country.

I believe that the Wikipedia article may be technically incorrect as NI is officially designated as a province rather than a country, AFAIK.

Given this, what exactly a country? When does a province become a country in it's own right? Is Kosovo a country or a province?

RiverWilde

Semantics ... Northern Ireland is part of another country ... namely the United Kingdom ... ergo ... Northern Ireland is another country ....

Riv

oscarBravo

TOMASJ, could you please learn to use quote tags properly? I've had to edit your posts to make it clear to whom you're replying.

thehighground

RiverWilde wrote: »

Semantics ... Northern Ireland is part of another country ... namely the United Kingdom ... ergo ... Northern Ireland is another country ....

Riv

Semantics or not - being part of another country is highly relevant (We're discussing something quite different to a 'country code', 'cross-country' race, 'Black Country' etc. here).

Key criteria of being regarded as a 'Country' is being able to set and raise your own taxes or apply for representation at the UN, send a team to the Olympics etc. NI does not fit into that criteria.

Permabear

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Jack Sheehan

TOMASJ wrote: »

Northern Ireland is not a country,


Why? what do you think it is?

If you take all countries as nothing more than arbitrary divisions based on differences in Culture etc then it is a country. It has a distinct culture that has arisen over the years partly as a result of the unique mix of peoples there. You have no right to say somewhere isn't a country because you want it to be part of yours.

Permabear

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LordSutch

I saw an article on BBC Newsline yesterday evening regarding peoples changing perceptions of 'Nationality' within a Northern Ireland context, and according to the BBC survey, about one third of the population now consider themselves 'Northern Irish' as opposed to being British or Irish ...........

I cant honestly see the Norths population just changing 'lock stock & barrell' to becoming 'Irish' as in the (Southern Perception) but I might see the day when the North resembles something like the Isle of Man or the 'Channel Islands' (an independent dependency) or on the other hand maybe the Norths current position within the United Kingdom will strenghten & flourish? specially with the proposed hook-up between the Ulster Unionist Party & the Conservative Party ........

The Corinthian

donegalfella wrote: »

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Actually they could be. Sicily is Italian, but also has a very distinct culture of it's own. There have been independence movements in Sicily for centuries, but as it is dependent on financial aid from the rest of Italy and already has an autonomous status, the call for independence is limited.

Alaska is a different case, in that it is largely a colonial state and many of it's inhabitants are at best second or third generation Alaskan - only around 15% of the population are indigenous. Their governor isn't even originally Alaskan - she's from Idaho originally.

In my view the definition of a country is much like a language, which has been discribed as "a dialect with an army". As such, a country is a de facto rather than de jure term in reality and trying to debate it is a bit pointless.

T runner

Jack Sheehan wrote: »

If you take all countries as nothing more than arbitrary divisions based on differences in Culture etc then it is a country. It has a distinct culture that has arisen over the years partly as a result of the unique mix of peoples there. You have no right to say somewhere isn't a country because you want it to be part of yours.

I would say that is a more a mix of religions primarily rather than cultures.
Cultural differences have resulted because of the main religious groups not being able to assimilate.

There has been plenty of migrations before from Scotland to Ireland and visa versa. These have been followed by a slow local adaptation and settling to assimilate the new mix.

This has not happened in Ulster this time (due to a difference in religion). In fact looking at some protestant surnames it may be that some of the "catholic irish" have been assimilated into the protestant culture.

What cultures are evident in the North?
You could say that there is the Protestant culture. Possibly believing themselves to be a naturally superior "group" to their counterparts.
Acting as a majority but with the paranoia of the potential minority.

There is the catholic culture, with the indignation of the displaced.
They would view themselves as belonging to a larger "Irish" culture.

The interaction and coexistance of these two cultures is a culture in itself.
The mosaic of the demography of these two groups across Ulster has changed little in 3 centuries. Any resultant local demographic change has often resulted in bloody conflicts. The shocking spectacle of children being harassed on their way to school looked shocking to the outside world but may have been understood well within the local culture as a symptom of a local demographic shift.

This joint culture may have more similarities with cultures in former Yugoaslavia for example, (Muslims and Christians co existing over centuries) than with other cultures in Ireland (or Britain).

Permabear

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nesf

O'Morris wrote: »

It's not very common among the Norwegians and the Danish and yet according to the article over 80% of people with Norse or Norman surnames have the gene.

One study does not the truth confirm.

Permabear

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luckyfrank

Whats all this bull**** ive being reading

Country
Nation
Culture
Northern irish


Geez some of you guys need to get out more

Either side's convictions for there own beliefs will never wane

Catholics will always want a united ireland
Protestants willl always want a United Kingdom

And bar a small minority this is the way it has always being and always will be

I accept the rule of law and the principal of consent as a nationlist i accept freely that the 6 countties of ulster is part of the UK and if there ever comes a time when the majority of the people in the 6 counties is nationalist i hope also the protestant/unionist community accept the rule of law and principal of consent

Permabear

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The Corinthian

luckyfrank wrote: »

And bar a small minority this is the way it has always being and always will be

Except that it isn't and seemingly hasn't been for a while.

I find it fascinating how some people seem to put their fingers in their ears and loudly sing "nanananana" where it comes to the changing situation in the north.

luckyfrank

The Corinthian wrote: »

Except that it isn't and seemingly hasn't been for a while.

I find it fascinating how some people seem to put their fingers in their ears and loudly sing "nanananana" where it comes to the changing situation in the north.

What changing sitution ????

A couple of survays here and there :pac:

The only suvay that counts is an election

Lets see if if the alliance party share of the vote grows

Id put my home on it the the staus quo will remain and infact they will increase there votes

luckyfrank

Why cant people except that there is a large majority of people north and south 'though obviously in the 6 counties there is a large minoirty' that we want to see a united ireland. I accept as ive said before the will of the majority of the 6 counties as it is but that doesnt stop me and a large number of people on this island for aspiring to see a united ireland

It would be nice also to see a more level approach in this forum as it comes across that there is an anti united ireland agenda on here

Anyway thats just my opinion probably be banned FOR STUFFING MY PATRIOTISM DOWN SOMEONES THROAT :rolleyes:

The Corinthian

luckyfrank wrote: »

What changing sitution ????

A couple of survays here and there :pac:

Of course. Let's just dismiss evidence we don't like.

The only suvay that counts is an election

Actually, if surveys point to an ideological shift in the population, it may not make a difference de jure, but only a fool would pretend that it is irrelevant.