Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

djpbarry

dlofnep wrote: »

It's alright though when the attacks are up in the North though, right?

Oh, I see; anyone who doesn't support a united Ireland obviously doesn't give a toss about terrorist attacks in Northern Ireland?

podge79

TOMASJ wrote: »

Fratton Fred wrote: »

No Fred
I can back it up, Im sure heard about a band called the miami who were stopped by a joint SAS UDR UVF group of murderers , who put a large bomb in there van and it went off prematurely killing band members and brits alike,
the brits then tried to shoot the rest of he band members and failed,
This is the most infamous incidents

and the agents of the irish state while never physically killing anyone in the north never 'assisted' the IRA by turning a blind eye to their activities? Authorities on both sides have blood on their hands by their actions or inactions. Neither side can take a "holier than thou" attitude

Fratton Fred

TOMASJ wrote: »

No Fred
I can back it up, Im sure heard about a band called the miami who were stopped by a joint SAS UDR UVF group of murderers , who put a large bomb in there van and it went off prematurely killing band members and brits alike,
the brits then tried to shoot the rest of he band members and failed,
This is the most infamous incidents

and the proof is where? word of advice, Mcarmalite's posts are not proof.

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and the proof is where? word of advice, Mcarmalite's posts are not proof

Fred if you can bring yourself to it
Have a read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Showband_killings

Or just keep your head buried in the sand and ignore all wrong doings by the SAS and hope that it goes away

Fratton Fred

TOMASJ wrote: »

Fred if you can bring yourself to it
Have a read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miami_Showband_killings

Or just keep your head buried in the sand and ignore all wrong doings by the SAS and hope that it goes away

good one. Although I'm not sure a wiki article that can be edited by anyone who can be bothered would stand up in a court of law.

So far the only credible account is that one of the men had an English accent, **** it, it could be me.:eek:

care to share your other enlightened examples?

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

good one. Although I'm not sure a wiki article that can be edited by anyone who can be bothered would stand up in a court of law.

So far the only credible account is that one of the men had an English accent, **** it, it could be me.:eek:

care to share your other enlightened examples?

Well Fred, can you explain why the British & Irish Govs. will not set up an investigation into the Dublin & Monaghan Bombings, particularly in light of the Barron Report. You would think they would want to remove all suspicion that they were involved, wouldn't you?

As for the Miami Showband murders - Sunday Business Post article (in italics here) which is hardly a provo propaganda sheet and can't be altered by anyone like wiki.

The continued refusal of the British authorities to assist the Barron Report into the Dublin and Monaghan bombings with any intelligence investigation has deepened the suspicion that unravelling the mystery would inevitably lead to links with a series of killings across the ‘murder triangle', including that of the Miami Showband.

Indeed, forensic and weapon linkages from the Miami killings - and through a long list of convicted loyalist paramilitaries - creates an inter-linking series of ‘murder triangle' killings, many of which involved former members of the mid-Ulster UDR regiment, the RUC and members of the UVF.

Whether these activities were unilateral or a wider part of British intelligence undercover activity remains the most significant question.

http://archives.tcm.ie/businesspost/2005/07/31/story6772.asp

Fratton Fred

stop the press. the UDR was full of UVF members.

I actually missed the bit about the SAS, could you point it out to me?

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

stop the press. the UDR was full of UVF members.

I actually missed the bit about the SAS, could you point it out to me?

Do you not think there is something wrong with a British Army regiment being full of loyalist terrorists? I honestly don't think many people would be too happy down here if a regiment of the Irish Defence Forces had republican paramilitaries serving anyway. But hey, thats just me!

And you will keep missing the bit about the SAS until there is an enquiry into the Dublin Monaghan bombings. Perhaps you might contact some of your MPs and encourage them to allow it

and Fred, would you mind answering this please:

Well Fred, can you explain why the British & Irish Govs. will not set up an investigation into the Dublin & Monaghan Bombings, particularly in light of the Barron Report. You would think they would want to remove all suspicion that they were involved, wouldn't you?

Fratton Fred

There is something very wrong with having a terrorist organisation rife within one of your regiments, without a doubt. its a huge ****ing national embarrassment as far as i am concerned.

As far as Dublin and Monaghan are concerned, yes it would be good for the government to open up classified files.

For the British government, i think it is because the UDR were involved at a time when their numbers were being increased and reports of their involvement would have meant a complete rethink of policy.

For the Irish government, I think they just ****ed the whole thing up, big time, and are too embarressed to admit it.

suppose for a minute the British government had information the attacks were to take place, but didn't react because they were protecting informers, but they told the Irish government, who did nothing about it. How much singing and dancing do you think either government is going to do about the whole sorry episode.

I'm just about to start reading a book on the subject btw.

dlofnep

Fratton Fred wrote: »

good one. Although I'm not sure a wiki article that can be edited by anyone who can be bothered would stand up in a court of law.

So far the only credible account is that one of the men had an English accent, **** it, it could be me.:eek:

care to share your other enlightened examples?

http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/issues/violence/docs/kaystavern0706.pdf

Knock yourself out. Not to mention, Fred Holroyd, a captain in the British army backs up these claims.

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

There is something very wrong with having a terrorist organisation rife within one of your regiments, without a doubt. its a huge ****ing national embarrassment as far as i am concerned.

Its more than an embarrassment, its shocking. I was stopped once by the UDR on a road checkpoint in the early '90s (ROI registered car). I thought it was the end of me. And some people wonder why the Sinn Fein/Provisional IRA got so much support in NI? :rolleyes:

As far as Dublin and Monaghan are concerned, yes it would be good for the government to open up classified files.

TBH, it would not be good for British/Irish relations if it came out that British intellience/SAS had a hand in those bombings (and I saying that as someone who has a friend whose mother was killed in Talbot St).

For the British government, i think it is because the UDR were involved at a time when their numbers were being increased and reports of their involvement would have meant a complete rethink of policy.

Not good enough for what is meant to be the best army in the world.

For the Irish government, I think they just ****ed the whole thing up, big time, and are too embarressed to admit it.

suppose for a minute the British government had information the attacks were to take place, but didn't react because they were protecting informers, but they told the Irish government, who did nothing about it. How much singing and dancing do you think either government is going to do about the whole sorry episode.

I'm just about to start reading a book on the subject btw.

Irish Gov. had no other option - Britain had invaded a very small, fairly helpless state and killed some of its citizens. Britain could have wiped us out in a second.

Fratton Fred

thehighground wrote: »

TBH, it would not be good for British/Irish relations if it came out that British intellience/SAS had a hand in those bombings (and I saying that as someone who has a friend whose mother was killed in Talbot St).

the trouble is, people have already made up their minds as to what has happened. People are chipping in with gems like "I saw a British soldier on the Dublin - Holyhead ferry" as if that is some sort of proof.

thehighground wrote: »

Not good enough for what is meant to be the best army in the world.

Which is the probable reason why no one was that keen to shout about it.

getz

wasent there some irish senior republic politician [now dead]who made money by selling arms to the IRA?

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

the trouble is, people have already made up their minds as to what has happened. People are chipping in with gems like "I saw a British soldier on the Dublin - Holyhead ferry" as if that is some sort of proof.

Well you can knock the ferry notion on the head for sure - I thought everyone knew they got a Garda escort to the Border.

Which is the probable reason why no one was that keen to shout about it.

Fred, with that comment, you leave me speechless! Are you trying to be funny again?

thehighground

getz wrote: »

wasent there some irish senior republic politician [now dead]who made money by selling arms to the IRA?

Don't think any Irish politician made money selling arms to the IRA or in fact sold arms! Gadafi used to sell arms to the IRA as far as I know.

Who made money/supplied arms to the UDR / UVF?

jaqian

Irlbo wrote: »

Shame on ANY that doesnt,Catholic,Protestants,baptists,pagans etc etc,we should be ashamed of oursleves that we dont pursue our countries freedom

What difference would it make? We all speak the same language, there are no border check-points anymore. All we need it for them to start using the Euro and we're as good as united!

dlofnep

jaqian wrote: »

What difference would it make? We all speak the same language, there are no border check-points anymore. All we need it for them to start using the Euro and we're as good as united!

About as united as Canada & The United States then? Two seperate Governments - One with terrible foreign relations, and a haven for Islamic terrorist attacks. The other run by a man with extremely large lips and is in recession.

Just because there are no border check-points (and I was stopped by the PSNI on my way back from Belfast near the "border" btw), does not mean Ireland is united. Unity implies one goverment, common trade and economic policies, one foreign policy, one currency and so forth.

getz

you dont want that at this moment food is far cheeper in northern ireland

Fratton Fred

thehighground wrote: »

Well you can knock the ferry notion on the head for sure - I thought everyone knew they got a Garda escort to the Border.

Fred, with that comment, you leave me speechless! Are you trying to be funny again?

Why? what are your conclusions?

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

Why? what are your conclusions?

That more than likely there were a fair few people on the ferry out of Dublin with English accents who had nothing to do with the bombings

My conclusion is that it is a bit more than just "a huge ****ing national embarrassment as far as i am concerned." Personally, I find it hugely annoying when people like yourself try and defend the indefensible. I can only imagine how people feel who were at the receiving end of this 'embarrasement' for 30+ years and why they might not want to be citizens of the State that allowed this to happen.

Fratton Fred

thehighground wrote: »

That more than likely there were a fair few people on the ferry out of Dublin with English accents who had nothing to do with the bombings

My conclusion is that it is a bit more than just "a huge ****ing national embarrassment as far as i am concerned." Personally, I find it hugely annoying when people like yourself try and defend the indefensible. I can only imagine how people feel who were at the receiving end of this 'embarrasement' for 30+ years and why they might not want to be citizens of the State that allowed this to happen.

hang on a sec, people jump to conclusions about all sorts of things. I'm all for the right people being brought to justice, but there is a huge difference between someone being brought to justice and a witch hunt.

Just because i don't draw the same conclusions you do, does not mean i am defending it.

dlofnep

Fred - You are defending it. Whether you like to believe it or not. You've been trying to deflect the attention from the matter at hand. You don't want to discuss the atrocities made by members of the British military. I don't know why, but judging from this thread - and the other one, it seems that you are incapable of doing so.

I don't know where your loyalties lay, and quite frankly - I don't really care. But you don't have to be a Republican to see the wrong-doing by the British army in the North and the numerous coverups and collusion between the armed forces and the blatant abuses of human rights, and murder of civilians.

Fratton Fred

dlofnep wrote: »

Fred - You are defending it. Whether you like to believe it or not. You've been trying to deflect the attention from the matter at hand. You don't want to discuss the atrocities made by members of the British military. I don't know why, but judging from this thread - and the other one, it seems that you are incapable of doing so.

I don't know where your loyalties lay, and quite frankly - I don't really care. But you don't have to be a Republican to see the wrong-doing by the British army in the North and the numerous coverups and collusion between the armed forces and the blatant abuses of human rights, and murder of civilians.

I don't really have any loyalties to be honest, other than to a football team.

This is what pisses me off

From Wikipedia

Wikipedia wrote:

Army officer and member of 14 Intelligence Company, Captain Robert Nairac, organised the attack in cooperation with the UVF.[9][10][11][12] Surviving band members echoed this allegation: "Surviving Miami Showband members Stephen Travers and Des McAlea testified in court that an Army officer with a crisp English accent oversaw the Miami attack", the implication being that this was Nairac

from Dlofnep, not sure he has read it though

[QUOTE=Joint Committee on Justice, Equality, Defence and Women’s
Rights Interim Report on the Report of the Independent Commission of Inquiry into the Bombing of Kay’s Tavern, Dundalk July, 2006 (Prn. A6/1091)
]"Travers was unable to give a description of this Englishman, save that he was about normal height. He thought he had fair hair but couldn’t be sure. He was shown a photograph of English Army Captain Robert Nairac, but did not believe him to have been the man at the scene".[/QUOTE]

As I have said before, people keep saying things and start believing it to be the truth.

thehighground

Fratton Fred wrote: »

hang on a sec, people jump to conclusions about all sorts of things. I'm all for the right people being brought to justice, but there is a huge difference between someone being brought to justice and a witch hunt.

We're not talking about one or two individuals here ... we are talking about the activities of the British Army in NI over a 30+ year period.

Just because i don't draw the same conclusions you do, does not mean i am defending it.

Well, you asked me for my conclusions and thats what I conclude. You think what you like, but there are very few Irish people who would have much time for the British Army and their activities in NI.

McArmalite

podge79 wrote: »

and the agents of the irish state while never physically killing anyone in the north never 'assisted' the IRA by turning a blind eye to their activities? Authorities on both sides have blood on their hands by their actions or inactions. Neither side can take a "holier than thou" attitude

And so says Willie Frazer's of LoveUlster notoriety and his Families Acting for Innocent Relatives organisation. Englightening " Authorities on both sides have blood on their hands ........ Neither side can take a "holier than thou" attitude "

http://www.victims.org.uk/05-06-06b.htm

Here's a wee quote from it -" Not only has massive collusion taken place between Gardai and the I.R.A. in the border areas....etc "

McArmalite

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and the proof is where? word of advice, Mcarmalite's posts are not proof.

Fratton Fred wrote: »

I don't really have any loyalties to be honest, other than to a football team.

This is what pisses me off

From Wikipedia



from Dlofnep, not sure he has read it though



As I have said before, people keep saying things and start believing it to be the truth.

You've been many times told of Nairac's and co.'s links to the loyalists thru the Barron report, the victim's families Justice for the Forgotten campaign etc. The links and references have been posted before, but I'm sure you've heard of Google so you can easily find it.

But then since your the one who posts always denying Nairac and the brits involvemnt, no matter what reasonable information is provided, obviously the onus is on you to disprove their accusations instead of Dlofnep or anyone else providing the information to a English unionist bigot who will disregard any criticism of britian regadless .;)

podge79

Here's a wee quote from it -" Not only has massive collusion taken place between Gardai and the I.R.A. in the border areas....etc "

so because a loyalist/unioinist says it it's got to be a load of lies but if the opposite accusation is made its the god honest truth?

if it happened it happened; if it didnt it didnt

its a tough thing to do but it's time to move on to a positive future leaving behind the dark days of the past instead of constantly dragging them up

TOMASJ

Fratton Fred wrote: »

and the proof is where? word of advice, Mcarmalite's posts are not proof

Fred
Here another murder done by the untouchable SAS only this time there victim was a protestant man a cousin of none other than the Rev William McCrea who was murdered thinking he was a IRA man

Now what would the heroic story about gun battles would have been told if this man had been an IRA volunteer

Gavin Shuter, the uncle of Jim Taylor, the wildfowler shot dead by the SAS while on a hunting expedition in Coagh, County Tyrone last September, has called for the SAS men to be charged with murder.

His call follows the leak to the Press Association in Belfast last week of a pathologist's report which shows that Jim Taylor, a 23-year-old Protestant from Coagh, was shot once in the back and twice in the side of his chest as he fell to the ground.

At the time of the shooting, the SAS claimed that they were in a ``terrorist situation'' and were ``acting in good faith''.

Responding to the press leak, the RUC said that none of the SAS men involved in the killing would be charged. A report on the killing had been submitted to the Director of Public Prosecutions, who had directed that there was no case to be made against the SAS

Fratton Fred

have you got a link, I can't find it on Google.

All I can find is the death of the Loughgall brigade (Which, lets face it, is the real reason terrorist sympathisers dislike the SAS, because they had a nasty habit of killing these sorts of murdering, low life, scum)

TOMASJ

[quote=Fratton Fred;57589259

]have you got a link, I can't find it on Google.

All I can find is the death of the Loughgall brigade (Which, lets face it, is the real reason terrorist sympathisers dislike the SAS, because they had a nasty habit of killing these sorts of murdering, low life, scum)

Cant find a link just at the moment Fred.
but in the meantime here one about the FRU who are friends of the SAS vermin.
its about the murder of Pat Finucane. and 13 other people.
http://www.serve.com/~pfc/fru/fru12022k1a.html