Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

Dudess

Irish unionists (from the 26 counties) baffle me. It's one thing for an Irish person to be understanding of a unionist's position... but to actually be a unionist? Why? It's illogical imo.

Dr Galen

Dudess wrote: »

Irish unionists baffle me. It's one thing for an Irish person to be understanding of a unionist's position... but to actually be a unionist? Why? It's illogical imo.

but they don't see themselves as Irish. They are British in their minds, so your illogical viewpoint doesn't enter their head.

Dudess

I'm referring to people from the south who are unionists.

mike65

A bit like Northern nationalists maybe?

Dr Galen

i know. My point still stands though? Do they not still see themselves as British living under Irish rule?

Dudess

mike65 wrote: »

A bit like Northern nationalists maybe?

Why?

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i know. My point still stands though? Do they not still see themselves as British living under Irish rule?

I'm not aware of such people. I am aware of Irish people (not of British stock, just Irish) born in the 26 counties but being unionists.

Dr Galen

and whats their reasoning then?

K-9

Dudess wrote: »

Why?

I'm not aware of such people. I am aware of Irish people (not of British stock, just Irish) born in the 26 counties but being unionists.

I see no problem in Unionists living in the 26 counties and Republicans living in the wee 6.

oscarBravo

Dudess wrote: »

Irish unionists (from the 26 counties) baffle me. It's one thing for an Irish person to be understanding of a unionist's position... but to actually be a unionist? Why? It's illogical imo.

I wouldn't call myself a unionist, but I can see a certain logic in not wanting to have the six counties as part of Ireland.

T runner

Mystik Monkey wrote: »

i know. My point still stands though? Do they not still see themselves as British living under Irish rule?

Being British and being Unionist are two very distinct things. It is possible for an Irish person to want a Union with Britain. It isnt usually possible for an Irish person also to be a British person. (or French, Chinese etc).

Harolds+

of course not

but a huge majority do

I think any catholic aged over 30 will remember the sectarian murders against them; collusion to kill them and the Gerrymandering by a bunch of people who would do great stunt doubles for "The Hills Have Eyes"

LordSutch

T runner wrote: »

Being British and being Unionist are two very distinct things. It is possible for an Irish person to want a Union with Britain. It isnt usually possible for an Irish person also to be a British person. (or French, Chinese etc).

One can be British & Irish, or British & English, British & Scottish or even British & Welsh > being British is a frame of mind, a sense of belonging to a 'bigger group' that inhabit these islands with a common identity.

There are 'approx' one million people up North that will tell you they are British (albeit in an Irish context).

Generally (but not exclusively) Catholics up North consider themselves 'Irish' while Protestants consider themselves 'British', who closely identify with the culture & mindset of vast majority of the population of the british isles. (these islands)!

T runner

fryup wrote: »

its spelt ..protestant you ignorant twat

reading some of these comments makes me baffled at some peoples attitudes to the population up north esp the unionists.....do you honestly believe they would be happy to join up with a country that has been (lets face it) a safe haven for the killers (i.e. ira & inla) of they're people??

You can make that comment about all sides cant you? Hasnt the UK being a safe haven for Killers also?

Back from Scotland today. Got a taxi in Belfast. Driver said over the intercom "two fenians for ........(location)".

I havent seen any argument justifying the partition of this country. The underlying reason is that Irish protestants in the NE refuse to be ruled by second class people, as they see it and threaten a civil war to back up the refusal. Why have partition? Because it is preferable to civil war.


This reason completely lacks integrity. Partition was always meant to be a temporary solution to appease Unionists "Rome rule" fears. That threat has long gone yet Unionists have made no effort to understand their fellow Irish men or compromise in any meaningful way.

The attitude of that cab driver is a more extreme manifestation of an underlying belief among northern protestants about the inferiority of their fellows.

(By the way if you are self righteously calling someone a "twat" for a spelling error, probably best to spell "their" correctly or someone may call you a name.)

junder

Joey the lips wrote: »

Our failure in achieving a united ireland so far can be found in our failure as a society to take interest.

We are comfortable in our surroundings so we dont give a dam.

I think our attitude is a result of our changing nature and a handicap

No matter what your religion a united ireland should be your goal. Not because you care for it but because its the last grip the brits have on your heritage.

But considering most people dont give a dam about there next door neighbour the task of achieving a united ireland will fall on those in the northern counties or those who have seen what they have to live with

My heretige is British

Dr Galen

T runner wrote: »

It isnt usually possible for an Irish person also to be a British person. (or French, Chinese etc).

well it's probably easier than you'd imagine. Seeing as in my own case I can have either an Irish or a British passport, have a British birth cert etc therefore by birth I'm technically British.....

K-9

Harolds+ wrote: »

of course not

but a huge majority do

I think any catholic aged over 30 will remember the sectarian murders against them; collusion to kill them and the Gerrymandering by a bunch of people who would do great stunt doubles for "The Hills Have Eyes"

I do too, I've a keen awareness of history. Ivan Cooper is a hero.

It's in the past.

junder

T runner wrote: »

You can make that comment about all sides cant you? Hasnt the UK being a safe haven for Killers also?

Back from Scotland today. Got a taxi in Belfast. Driver said over the intercom "two fenians for ........(location)".

I havent seen any argument justifying the partition of this country. The underlying reason is that Irish protestants in the NE refuse to be ruled by second class people, as they see it and threaten a civil war to back up the refusal. Why have partition? Because it is preferable to civil war.


This reason completely lacks integrity. Partition was always meant to be a temporary solution to appease Unionists "Rome rule" fears. That threat has long gone yet Unionists have made no effort to understand their fellow Irish men or compromise in any meaningful way.

The attitude of that cab driver is a more extreme manifestation of an underlying belief among northern protestants about the inferiority of their fellows.

(By the way if you are self righteously calling someone a "twat" for a spelling error, probably best to spell "their" correctly or someone may call you a name.)

and how much have you done to understand the British protestants that live on the island, as for compromise don't we have a power sharing executive up here. By the way which taxi firm did you use, if it was say value cabs or foneacabs then they are cross community and you would have grounds to compalign to the management who would sack the indivduals responsable, if you used a 'local' taxi from one of the getthos well then you should be more careful since both republican and loyalists paramiltarys generally run the taxis firms in the getthos

T runner

Camelot wrote: »

One can be British & Irish, or British & English, British & Scottish or even British & Welsh > being British is a frame of mind, a sense of belonging to a 'bigger group' that inhabit these islands with a common identity.

There are 'approx' one million people up North that will tell you they are British (albeit in an Irish context).

generally (but not exclusively) Catholics up North consider themselves 'Irish' while Protestants consider themselves British in an Irish context and closely identifying with the vast majority of the population of the british isles. (these islands)!

and dont confuse being British with being English.

No confusion. Great Britain=Scotland, England, Wales.
UK = UK of Britain and NI.

(You see the British are from Britain, and the Irish part of the UK is NI.)

Ireland is not part of great Britain therefore not possible to be British and Irish at the same time no matter what type of frame of mind one is in.

People claiming to be British is a convenient reason to partition Ireland but alas it will never be true.

If Irish people can be British, then Scots, English, Welsh, (French and Chinese) can be Irish.


Most Scots are starting only to see their Britishness in a purely geographical context. (SNP in one party government). They see their nationality as Scottish and they live in Britain. How can someone be British who has never even lived in Britain for Gods sake?

According to myth some Protestants in the North's ancient ancestors came from Scotland and England. Some of mine may have come from there also for all I know. Doesnt make me British, having lived over here in Ireland all my life. Doesnt make me French either.

K-9

T runner wrote: »

No confusion. Great Britain=Scotland, England, Wales.
UK = UK of Britain and NI.

(You see the British are from Britain, and the Irish part of the UK is NI.)

Ireland is not part of great Britain therefore not possible to be British and Irish at the same time no matter what type of frame of mind one is in.

People claiming to be British is a convenient reason to partition Ireland but alas it will never be true.

If Irish people can be British, then Scots, English, Welsh, (French and Chinese) can be Irish.


Most Scots are starting only to see their Britishness in a purely geographical context. (SNP in one party government). They see their nationality as Scottish and they live in Britain. How can someone be British who has never even lived in Britain for Gods sake?

According to myth some Protestants in the North's ancient ancestors came from Scotland and England. Some of mine may have come from there also for all I know. Doesnt make me British, having lived over here in Ireland all my life. Doesnt make me French either.

Obviously, Scotland and Wales have different recent histories than NI, so different attachments.

Comparing them is ridiculous.

Harolds+

This thread is getting a little negative but lets get one thing straight : Ireland will be united in less than 20yrs and if I am wrong, I will give my Breitling watch to the person who disagrees and wins after the 20yrs

Dr Galen

just to hedge my bets I'm going to disagree!

Mods you are witnesses

I don't think it'll be united in the full sense, maybe some sort of dual government principality type thing.

K-9

I'll double Harolds+! LOL

40/50 years at least.

There'll be a Catholic majority in 10/20 years at most. Does not mean a majority want an United Ireland, so 40/50 years, if we've sorted out our economy by then!

T runner

junder wrote: »

and how much have you done to understand the British protestants that live on the island, as for compromise don't we have a power sharing executive up here. By the way which taxi firm did you use, if it was say value cabs or foneacabs then they are cross community and you would have grounds to compalign to the management who would sack the indivduals responsable, if you used a 'local' taxi from one of the getthos well then you should be more careful since both republican and loyalists paramiltarys generally run the taxis firms in the getthos

I have made much effort in understanding northern protestants. I have read historical literature backing their point of view (none of which claims they are British, of course it wouldnt be taken very seriously if it did). I have always tried to be open minded and fair but I have found on many occasions to being condescended to based on my accent.

You have to admit it is a fact that protestants feel they belong to the superior community.

As for the cabs it may well have been a local cab. I collected it outside a main transport centre so had no reason to believe it other than couture.
I dont think we would tolerate paramilitaries running cab companies in this state but it seems to be OK in the "UK".

Another example if I may. On the boat today I asked for a coffee etc. I was just short of sterling change. The girl behind the counter coldly told me I could pay in Euro when I asked her. When I handed her a note (only had a fifty) she gave me change in sterling consisting of a twenty and the rest in pound and two pound coins. Obviously she knew I couldnt change these back. When I asked her for a note instead she smilingly told me she had closed the till and I should have asked her earlier etc. etc.

It was quite clear to me that the only reason for this nasty behaviour was my southern accent. This is a sign of a general hatred of the underclass who would seek to rule them and I refuse to dignify it by excusing their coldness as due to a wronged people of a different nationality.

You can only partake in the supression of people as has happenned over the last many hundred years, if you de-humanise them by believing them inferior.
Its the only way it works.

It doesnt matter who does it to whom: having that attitude (and whatever feeds it) is wrong politically and morally. I inderstand how it happens, that doesnt make it right.

gurramok

Camelot wrote: »

One can be British & Irish, or British & English, British & Scottish or even British & Welsh > being British is a frame of mind, a sense of belonging to a 'bigger group' that inhabit these islands with a common identity.

There are 'approx' one million people up North that will tell you they are British (albeit in an Irish context).

Generally (but not exclusively) Catholics up North consider themselves 'Irish' while Protestants consider themselves 'British', who closely identify with the culture & mindset of vast majority of the population of the british isles. (these islands)!

and please dont confuse being British with being English.

Where did you get your magical 1 million figure from?

According to the 2001 census, just under 900,000 people identified as from a 'Protestant community background'
As you acknowledge the vast majority of each community identify along religious and political grounds. your figure is way out of whack.

To add, Unionist parties obtained around 48% of the vote last time in 2007 so that means 48% of adults identify themselves as Unionist and British.

Do the maths.

T runner

K-9 wrote: »

Obviously, Scotland and Wales have different recent histories than NI, so different attachments.

Comparing them is ridiculous.

You need to read back a few posts. I was answering a poster who claimed that Ireland is British thus the comparisons with Scotland and Wales (countries actually on the Island of Britain).

Just to be clear: the poster was not claimimg that NI had an attachment to Britain as you imply, but that Irish people were in fact British.

K-9

T runner wrote: »

Another example if I may. On the boat today I asked for a coffee etc. I was just short of sterling change. The girl behind the counter coldly told me I could pay in Euro when I asked her. When I handed her a note (only had a fifty) she gave me change in sterling consisting of a twenty and the rest in pound and two pound coins. Obviously she knew I couldnt change these back. When I asked her for a note instead she smilingly told me she had closed the till and I should have asked her earlier etc. etc.

It was quite clear to me that the only reason for this nasty behaviour was my southern accent. This is a sign of a general hatred of the underclass who would seek to rule them and I refuse to dignify it by excusing their coldness as due to a wronged people of a different nationality.

Welcome to Northern small mindedness, it isn't a solely Protestant thing, it's equal opportunities from what I've seen.

Harolds+

The only part up there that is mainly loyalist/unionist is North East Antrim. The rest of the counties is made up of a growing population of catholics. Its quite obvious that the Brits dont want ANY responsibility of the North of Ireland and is more interested in plundering the M.E. with the Septic Tanks/YANKS = full of sh1T and its quest for oil.

The border areas are swelling of nationalists and are swallowing and migrating upwards. Businesses are thriving along these areas and eventually nationalist strongholds will be in mid-Ulster to the Northeast of the country. Its very possible to say that Belfast could be the next Copenhagen ( laugh all ya want!) with its strategic port to Scandinavia and Scotland and docking area for imports and exports.

Other than that it is still a rotten bulb under the ground waiting to be fed and watered with real life!

the_syco

K-9 wrote: »

There'll be a Catholic majority in 10/20 years at most.

There's a Nationalist majority now...

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

K-9

the_syco wrote: »

There's a Nationalist majority now...

I take it you have stats?