Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

K-9

Harolds+ wrote: »

The only part up there that is mainly loyalist/unionist is North East Antrim. The rest of the counties is made up of a growing population of catholics.!

Stats for this?

fryup

T runner wrote: »

Another example if I may. On the boat today I asked for a coffee etc. I was just short of sterling change. The girl behind the counter coldly told me I could pay in Euro when I asked her. When I handed her a note (only had a fifty) she gave me change in sterling consisting of a twenty and the rest in pound and two pound coins. Obviously she knew I couldnt change these back. When I asked her for a note instead she smilingly told me she had closed the till and I should have asked her earlier etc. etc.

It was quite clear to me that the only reason for this nasty behaviour was my southern accent. This is a sign of a general hatred of the underclass who would seek to rule them and I refuse to dignify it by excusing their coldness as due to a wronged people of a different nationality.

so you got lousy service on the ferry..so what:rolleyes: it could happen to anyone at anytime

maybe she was having a bad day, and who's to say that girl didn't come from a nationalist community

Harolds+

K-9 wrote: »

Stats for this?

The demographics has obviously changed swinging towards the catholics

K-9

Harolds+ wrote: »

The demographics has obviously changed swinging towards the catholics

That isn't answering the question.

We've had a 30 county Ireland for a long time.

Try and enforce the democratic will of the 30 counties?

PS. Armagh has a Catholic majority despite the simplistic colourings on the map!

gurramok

NI census 2001 http://www.nisranew.nisra.gov.uk/Census/Census2001Output/KeyStatistics/keystatrep1.html

K-9 wrote:

I take it you have stats?

Look it up, see site above.

Hint- There is a young(under 35) age group where there is a swing in demographics.

K-9

That's 91.

From Wiki! I know!

Seeing as your Map was from Wiki. perfectly acceptable!

The population of Northern Ireland was estimated as being 1,759,000 on 10 December 2008[1]. In the 2001 census, 45.6% of the population identified as belonging to Protestant denominations (of which 20.7% Presbyterian, 15.3% Church of Ireland), 40.3% identified as Catholic, 0.3% identified with non-Christian religions and 13.9% identified with no religion.[23] In terms of community background, 53.1% of the Northern Irish population came from a Protestant background, 43.8% came from a Catholic background, 0.4% from non-Christian backgrounds and 2.7% non-religious backgrounds.[24][25] The population is forecast to pass the 1.8 million mark by 2011

K-9

Importantly, the 6 counties do not exist anymore, districts do.

The County boundaries are irrelevant, council boundaries are.

fryup

K-9 wrote: »

13.9% identified with no religion.

but of this 13.9% non religious are they.....nationalist non religious or unionist non religious ??

K-9

fryup wrote: »

but of this 13.9% non religious are they.....nationalist non religious or unionist non religious ??

LOL. Probably don't give a bollix!

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

Importantly, the 6 counties do not exist anymore, districts do.

The County boundaries are irrelevant, council boundaries are.

The ward areas are available by community background in map format. Basically Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Fermanagh are majority Catholic community background counties in 2001.
Have a look at the attached Excel file which is available from the census site for the overall picture by age. Draw your own conclusions

fryup

K-9 wrote: »

LOL. Probably don't give a bollix!

well maybe they should, cause its these people who will determine the political destiny of the north in the not so distant future

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

The ward areas are available by community background in map format. Basically Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Fermanagh are majority Catholic community background counties in 2001.
Have a look at the attached Excel file which is available from the census site for the overall picture by age. Draw your own conclusions

I'll look at the Coleraine borough breakdown tomorrow, as I will Downpatrick/ South Down.

K-9

fryup wrote: »

well maybe they should, cause its these people who will determine the political destiny of the north in the not so distant future

Nah, maybe they don't look at things in a 32/6 county way, fair play to them if that's the case.

Connolly would agree!

Harolds+

gurramok wrote: »

The ward areas are available by community background in map format. Basically Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Fermanagh are majority Catholic community background counties in 2001.
Have a look at the attached Excel file which is available from the census site for the overall picture by age. Draw your own conclusions

Well "f" me :eek:

but don't forget there are a lot of people out there in working class communities who falsely believe the census people are there to monitor their activity and these census people are there to see who live with them - in other words who is creaming off the State and lying about the occupants in the house etc

In order words, I am a little bit doubtful of your stats but the current political positions up there is telling me you are right

Touche

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

The ward areas are available by community background in map format. Basically Derry, Tyrone, Armagh, Fermanagh are majority Catholic community background counties in 2001.
Have a look at the attached Excel file which is available from the census site for the overall picture by age. Draw your own conclusions

Harolds+ wrote: »

Well "f" me :eek:

but don't forget there are a lot of people out there in working class communities who falsely believe the census people are there to monitor their activity and these census people are there to see who live with them - in other words who is creaming off the State and lying about the occupants in the house etc

In order words, I am a little bit doubtful of your stats but the current political positions up there is telling me you are right

Touche

LOL, It's either boroughs or counties lads, not both! I see a choosing what suits me line here!



Coleraine is Protestant, South Down and North Antrim isn't.

We should really swap.

Bog Butter

The Northern Ireland local government elections due to be held this year are posponed until 2011.

The decision follows a request on 15th April 2008 by former Environment Minister Arlene Foster MLA to delay the elections – scheduled for this year – until 2011 to reflect the new local Government structure under the Review of Public Administration. The necessary legislation has now completed the parliamentary process.

I didn't know they were posponed until now. Was there any opposition to Foster's request?

gurramok

Harolds+ wrote: »

Well "f" me :eek:

but don't forget there are a lot of people out there in working class communities who falsely believe the census people are there to monitor their activity and these census people are there to see who live with them - in other words who is creaming off the State and lying about the occupants in the house etc

In order words, I am a little bit doubtful of your stats but the current political positions up there is telling me you are right

Touche

True. They(NI census gatherers) had demographic experts trying to fit those of 'no religion' belongs to whatever community and they did it pretty well through investigation of family responses etc.
All the stats are available online now for whoever whats to view them. Its an eyeopener so i suggest everyone on this thread have a look before they post stats!

K-9 wrote:

I'll look at the Coleraine borough breakdown tomorrow, as I will Downpatrick/ South Down.

Both districts have a declining minority of the opposite tribe which is a bit sad as it suggests people are sticking to their own tribal areas than integrating in a mixed areas.(not everywhere though, Carryduff in Co. Down is a nice peaceful example of a community mix of both tribes) *
*tribes is a sarcastic description for the PC heads out there

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

True. They(NI census gatherers) had demographic experts trying to fit those of 'no religion' belongs to whatever community and they did it pretty well through investigation of family responses etc.
All the stats are available online now for whoever whats to view them. Its an eyeopener so i suggest everyone on this thread have a look before they post stats!

LOL, Harolds+ posted the stats! LOL

A perfectly clear green/orange map! But it isn't clear as the 6 counties are now irrelevant!

Actually, the map was out of date, 4/6, not 3/6 have a Catholic majority.

gurramok wrote:

Both districts have a declining minority of the opposite tribe which is a bit sad as it suggests people are sticking to their own tribal areas than integrating in a mixed areas.(not everywhere though, Carryduff in Co. Down is a nice peaceful example of a community mix of both tribes) *
*tribes is a sarcastic description for the PC heads out there

Welcome to NI.

djpbarry

T runner wrote: »

Ireland is not part of great Britain therefore not possible to be British and Irish at the same time no matter what type of frame of mind one is in.

I'm sure they'd be happy to refer to themselves as United Kingdom-ish, only it's a bit of a mouthful.

T runner wrote: »

On the boat today I asked for a coffee etc. I was just short of sterling change. The girl behind the counter coldly told me I could pay in Euro when I asked her. When I handed her a note (only had a fifty) she gave me change in sterling consisting of a twenty and the rest in pound and two pound coins. Obviously she knew I couldnt change these back. When I asked her for a note instead she smilingly told me she had closed the till and I should have asked her earlier etc. etc.

Well, that sounds like quite a nasty experience. But don't worry; I'm sure the scars will heal with time.

T runner wrote: »

It was quite clear to me that the only reason for this nasty behaviour was my southern accent.

Or so you decided. So whenever you have an unpleasant experience, you put it down to bigotry?

gurramok

K-9 wrote: »

LOL, It's either boroughs or counties lads, not both! I see a choosing what suits me line here!



Coleraine is Protestant, South Down and North Antrim isn't.

We should really swap.

Regarding Co. Derry. Derry city brings the majority of the county to a Catholic community background majority. (Coleraine, the next biggest town is nowhere near its size to make up the numbers, )
Tyrone is a Catholic community majority and always was since partition, no contest there.
Fermanagh, we know is the same as the borough is treated as a county.

Armagh. This place has half and half in Craigavon council roughly where most of the population resides. The rest is tipped in Catholic community favour by Armagh city, the next biggest town.

And primarlily the East of the Bann is Protestant community background with its dense population and Protestant community background dominated large towns!!

All in all, if one studies the wards on each county, its quite amazing how one area goes from a majority of one community to another within a couple of miles of each other. The maps and stats are publicly available!

K-9

gurramok wrote: »

Regarding Co. Derry. Derry city brings the majority of the county to a Catholic community background majority. (Coleraine, the next biggest town is nowhere near its size to make up the numbers, )
Tyrone is a Catholic community majority and always was since partition, no contest there.
Fermanagh, we know is the same as the borough is treated as a county.

Armagh. This place has half and half in Craigavon council roughly where most of the population resides. The rest is tipped in Catholic community favour by Armagh city, the next biggest town.

And primarlily the East of the Bann is Protestant community background with its dense population and Protestant community background dominated large towns!!

All in all, if one studies the wards on each county, its quite amazing how one area goes from a majority of one community to another within a couple of miles of each other. The maps and stats are publicly available!

You haven't referred to Boroughs whatsoever.

You know counties don't really exist in NI?

LordSutch

T runner wrote: »

No confusion. Ireland is not part of great Britain therefore not possible to be British and Irish at the same time no matter what type of frame of mind one is in. People claiming to be British is a convenient reason to partition Ireland but alas it will never be true.

Ah come on now 'T runner' you're having a laugh :rolleyes:

T runner wrote: »

They see their nationality as Scottish and they live in Britain. How can someone be British who has never even lived in Britain for Gods sake?

Its all explained in Post 823.

T runner wrote: »

According to myth some Protestants in the North's ancient ancestors came from Scotland and England. Some of mine may have come from there also for all I know. Doesnt make me British, having lived over here in Ireland all my life. Doesnt make me French either.

According to 'Myth'?

Really 'T runner', you have to do better than this.

T runner

djpbarry wrote: »

I'm sure they'd be happy to refer to themselves as United Kingdom-ish, only it's a bit of a mouthful.

Irish or Northern Irish would do. They come from Ireland not Britain after all.

Well, that sounds like quite a nasty experience. But don't worry; I'm sure the scars will heal with time.

Northern Catholics must have to put up with this bull all their lives. Just for being Catholic, being Irish and calling themselves Irish. Any condescending comments on their scars?

This underlying attitude is endemic among Northern Protestants. I had two experiences in one day as a direct result of a protestants perception of me as being catholic Catholic.

Or so you decided. So whenever you have an unpleasant experience, you put it down to bigotry?

On one accasion I was called a fenian. Is that not bigotry?
On trhe other occasion the persons attitude to me visibly changed when she heard my accent. Her attitude was blatantly nasty. (She did not treat her next (Scottish) customer in this manner.)

T runner

Camelot wrote: »

Ah come on now 'T runner' you're having a laugh :rolleyes:

Its all explained in Post 823.

No its not

According to 'Myth'?

Really 'T runner', you have to do better than this.

The pre-plantation Irish sounding surnames of many Northern protestants indicates that the convenient assumption (on both sides) that all protestants ancestors are from the plantations is a myth.

Is that better?

oscarBravo

T runner wrote: »

I havent seen any argument justifying the partition of this country.

In 1998, the vast majority of people voted to accept the partition of this island.

What further argument do you need?

diverdriver

In 1998, the vast majority of people voted to accept the partition of this island.

What further argument do you need?

And that's the truth of it. Right now most people on this island are happy with the status quo and as long everyone's rights are respected that's how it will stay for the next few decades. As to the original question, many Catholics won't be in any hurry to join this republic if their lives in the north are free from discrimination and bigotry. As long as their Irishness is as respected in the same way as the Britishness of the unionists.

This thread can now be closed:);)
(As if):rolleyes:

Joey the lips

oscarBravo wrote: »

In 1998, the vast majority of people voted to accept the partition of this island.

What further argument do you need?

In 1998 people of this Island did not vote to accept partition they voted to accept the status quo at the time ie: A united ireland would only come about by a majority vote. This was the clause the belfast agreement hindged on. There was an attempt to edit this later to make it "a united ireland would only come about by a majority unionist vote" but this was put down as its daft and sectarian in its wording.

This is a very important point cause the then provisional IRA would not accept partition of ireland for the nationalist community it stood up for.

oscarBravo

Joey the lips wrote: »

In 1998 people of this Island did not vote to accept partition they voted to accept the status quo at the time ie: A united ireland would only come about by a majority vote.

Before the referendum, the Constitution claimed we owned the whole island. After the referendum, that claim was relinquished.

We were asked if it was OK to accept that NI is part of the UK, and by a landslide we said "yes". You can dress that up how you like, but we voted for partition.

LordSutch

Joey the lips wrote: »

In 1998 people of this Island did not vote to accept partition they voted to accept the status quo at the time ie: A united ireland would only come about by a majority vote. This was the clause the belfast agreement hindged on. There was an attempt to edit this later to make it "a united ireland would only come about by a majority unionist vote" but this was put down as its daft and sectarian in its wording.

Stop wriggling > The buck stops with the Good friday Agreement (1998) > end of.

Joey the lips wrote: »

This is a very important point cause the then provisional IRA would not accept partition of ireland for the nationalist community it stood up for.

The IRA did not stand up for the Nationalist community, the IRA were a prescribed terrorist outfit (resembling a cancer) who only had minority support within a minority community during the troubles.

Obviously since ditching their guns, their support has increased.

T runner

oscarBravo wrote: »

In 1998, the vast majority of people voted to accept the partition of this island.

What further argument do you need?

Incorrect. They voted to accept the good friday agreement. A vote on partition/reunification was not put before them.

How do you partition an island by the way? You mean "country" dont you?

diverdriver wrote: »

And that's the truth of it. Right now most people on this island are happy with the status quo and as long everyone's rights are respected that's how it will stay for the next few decades. As to the original question, many Catholics won't be in any hurry to join this republic if their lives in the north are free from discrimination and bigotry. As long as their Irishness is as respected in the same way as the Britishness of the unionists.

This thread can now be closed:);)
(As if):rolleyes:

Do you feel that people who call themselves Irish rights are now respected in NI? You cant even hold a passport of the UK without being classified as "British".

For example, Its still as hard as ever for a Catholic electrician to get a job with Northern Electricity. Why is that?

Theres no problem in accepting peoples "Britishness" but within a unified Ireland which is the only reasonable solution for this country into the future.

What reasons actually remain for partition?