Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

Options
12357…31

Comments

  • Options
    #122
    andrewh5
    Registered Users Posts: 588 ✭✭✭andrewh5


    Camelot wrote: »
    As Greyfox has just stated in Post#113, the whole notion of a "united ireland" is in reality 'Pie-in-the-Sky' or Popycock - & it just aint goin to happen anytime soon, if ever! as much as certain Republican posters to Boards.ie may wish for the total domination & Greening of the North - Which cannot be forced out of the UK.

    Even if an increased Catholic birth rate eclipsed the Protestant birth rate & resulted eventually in a higher 'Catholic' population, it would still NOT automatically follow that the North would leave the UK, there are far too many imponderables to calculate.

    Even now many Catholics wish to stay in the Union - its not just a religious divide, its also a cultural, historical & economic divide that seperates the UK from the Republic.
    Very good post.


  • Options
    #123
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    Well with the 'NI' we know what cup you drink from dont we,no we cant expect a referendum,its not in the interest of Britain or the 26 counties to hold a referendem,there never has been one,cant see there being one soon,god forbid if there was one,there might be a chance it could end up with a majority in favour of a United Ireland!!!


  • Options
    #124
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Well with the 'NI' we know what cup you drink from dont we,no we cant expect a referendum,its not in the interest of Britain or the 26 counties to hold a referendem,there never has been one,cant see there being one soon,god forbid if there was one,there might be a chance it could end up with a majority in favour of a United Ireland!!!

    Sorry, my map says "Northern Ireland" which, if i'm not mistaken, is governed by the "Northern Ireland Assembley".

    Also, if I'm not mistaken, a referendum can be called at any time to vote on unification, which will happen when the majority vote for it. This was agreed in the Republic of Ireland by way of referendum, in line with the constitution.

    the future of NI is out of Britain's hands, it is up to the people of NI to choose.

    So, will we, or will we not, see a referendum in NI in the near future, if, as you claim, the majority are nationalists?


  • Options
    #125
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Irlbo wrote: »
    Regardless of the indifference of the people in the 26 counties,I believe that the vast majority would be in favour of a United Ireland...
    Haven't you just contradicted yourself?


  • Options
    #126
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    What I mean is that people may not be excited by the prospect but I believe that in the back of thier minds Im sure they'd be in favour of a United Ireland unlike the unionists such as yourself


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #127
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    so anyone who disagrees with you is a unionist? that's original.


  • Options
    #128
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    Irlbo wrote: »
    What I mean is that people may not be excited by the prospect but I believe that in the back of thier minds Im sure they'd be in favour of a United Ireland unlike the unionists such as yourself
    I'm not a Unionist.

    Let me know when you discover your first shade of grey. Should be an interesting experience for you.


  • Options
    #129
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    I'm not a Unionist.

    Let me know when you discover your first shade of grey. Should be an interesting experience for you.

    LOL. I think you might find it an interesting experience yourself Oscar :rolleyes:


  • Options
    #130
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Sorry, my map says "Northern Ireland" which, if i'm not mistaken, is governed by the "Northern Ireland Assembley".

    I wouldn't exactly call what is happening in the Northern Ireland Assembly 'governing'. You do know the 'government' (i.e., Executive) of NI have not met since last June! And I'm pretty sure that London & Dublin won't allow that to continue for ever.


  • Options
    #131
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    thehighground wrote: »
    LOL. I think you might find it an interesting experience yourself Oscar :rolleyes:
    Yeah, I'm constantly posting "either you agree 100% with me or you're a..."

    I don't even know how to finish that sentence. What's the opposite of whatever it is I'm supposed to be? Life's so much easier when you can put people you disagree with into neatly-labelled boxes.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #132
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    thehighground wrote: »
    I wouldn't exactly call what is happening in the Northern Ireland Assembly 'governing'. You do know the 'government' (i.e., Executive) of NI have not met since last June! And I'm pretty sure that London & Dublin won't allow that to continue for ever.

    You're right. I should have called it bitching and arguing, but that's another subject. :D


  • Options
    #133
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm constantly posting "either you agree 100% with me or you're a..."

    I don't even know how to finish that sentence. What's the opposite of whatever it is I'm supposed to be? Life's so much easier when you can put people you disagree with into neatly-labelled boxes.

    Well, I'd like to see a united Ireland and most people I know would like to see it well - but I distinctly get the impression on this MB that there is very little tolerance for that view and anyone who thinks that way is obviously a Provo and wants to bomb unionists out of NI.

    And just for the record, I've never even voted for Sinn Fein.

    As a moderate myself who believes in the democratic process, you come across to me as being far more sympathetic to Fratton Fred & Camelot's politicial viewpoint (unionist) and fairly combative with those who favour a United Ireland (possibly because you don't want to be 'lumped' with the problem more than anything else).

    I don't think you should be surprised that people might assume that people think you want NI to remain within the UK (i.e., unionist).


  • Options
    #134
    gandalf
    Registered Users Posts: 26,458 ✭✭✭✭gandalf


    My god this thread and all the other NI ones recently just prove my point. Until all the groups in the North can actually get on and act like they are over five years of age there is no way I want them integrating with my country.

    There are alot of things wrong with the republic but at least we have moved on from the dark ages which the North seems to be ethernally caught up in.


  • Options
    #135
    gurramok
    Closed Accounts Posts: 13,992 ✭✭✭✭gurramok


    djpbarry wrote: »
    Based on what?

    Elections, have you been following current affairs in NI?

    SF+ SDLP desire a united Ireland in their different ways.

    They and the fringe groups regularly get 42-45% of the vote at the last election and before hence alot less than 66% statement stands correct.

    And you can add most parties down here who represent our democracy in ROI desire a United Ireland as well, they too have different ways of achieving it.


  • Options
    #136
    oscarBravo
    Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 28,804 Mod ✭✭✭✭oscarBravo


    thehighground wrote: »
    Well, I'd like to see a united Ireland and most people I know would like to see it well - but I distinctly get the impression on this MB that there is very little tolerance for that view and anyone who thinks that way is obviously a Provo and wants to bomb unionists out of NI.
    You can get whatever impression you like, but can you quote a single post that says so?

    I got called a unionist because I don't enthusiastically embrace Republican ideals, but have you seen me call (say) Dudess names, because she'd like to see a UI some day?
    As a moderate myself who believes in the democratic process, you come across to me as being far more sympathetic to Fratton Fred & Camelot's politicial viewpoint (unionist) and fairly combative with those who favour a United Ireland (possibly because you don't want to be 'lumped' with the problem more than anything else).

    I don't think you should be surprised that people might assume that people think you want NI to remain within the UK (i.e., unionist).
    I don't care what conclusions people decide to jump to about me. I'm not a unionist, and I'm not a republican. I don't want to see a united Ireland anytime soon, because the place is a basket case. As Gandalf says, when the people there have shown they're capable of living together like grown-ups, I might revise my opinion.


  • Options
    #137
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    thehighground wrote: »
    As a moderate myself who believes in the democratic process, you come across to me as being far more sympathetic to Fratton Fred & Camelot's politicial viewpoint (unionist)

    I'm a unionist :eek:


  • Options
    #138
    O'Morris
    Closed Accounts Posts: 619 ✭✭✭O'Morris


    Camelot wrote:
    As Greyfox has just stated in Post#113, the whole notion of a "united ireland" is in reality 'Pie-in-the-Sky' or Popycock

    They said the same thing about the European Union. The chances of Ireland being united within the next few decades are many times higher than the chances were of the main European countries coming together and joining in a political union after they had nearly destroyed each other in a world war.

    Camelot wrote:
    it just aint goin to happen anytime soon, if ever!

    I would say between another 15 to 30 years. 40 years at the most.

    Camelot wrote:
    as much as certain Republican posters to Boards.ie may wish for the total domination & Greening of the North

    That's the problem. There are republicans out there who don't like you and who want to see your people and your culture done away with. Those people will exist whether you're living in a united Ireland or whether you're governed by the British. I think that your culture will be far better protected in a united Ireland than it is now in the United Kingdom. In a united Ireland, moderate nationalists will be going out of their way to make sure that your well treated and that you're made to feel welcome. You'll be able to march down any road you want in a united Ireland. It's the opposite with the British. English people couldn't give a damn about you or your culture. They see you as a nuisance and they would be glad to see the back of you.

    So the choice is between getting a good deal at the hands of people who do want to live in the same country as you or to continue to see your people's political influence slip away while the influence of the Sinn Feiners continues to increase. It's a case of good cop/bad cop. Who would you rather do business with? Moderate nationalists or the provos?

    Camelot wrote:
    Which cannot be forced out of the UK.

    Yes it can. If the majority of the people in the north vote to join up with the 26 counties then it will no longer be part of the UK.

    Camelot wrote:
    Even if an increased Catholic birth rate eclipsed the Protestant birth rate & resulted eventually in a higher 'Catholic' population, it would still NOT automatically follow that the North would leave the UK

    It would make it much more likely though. We'll have a far easier time changing the catholic unionist minds than we will changing the minds of the orangemen. Some catholics might want to continue living under a union with Britain but very few of them have anything like the emotional attachment to the union that the other side have. Most Irish people want to be governed by Irish people in their own country.

    Camelot wrote:
    Even now many Catholics wish to stay in the Union

    They're a minority of the catholic population in the north. If increasing numbers of catholics were becoming unionists then Sinn Fein would not have become the largest nationalist party in the north over the last few years.

    Camelot wrote:
    its not just a religious divide, its also a cultural, historical & economic divide that seperates the UK from the Republic.

    Ireland is no more divided culturally than any other European country. If there is any division in Ireland, it's between unionists and everyone else on the island. The differences between nationalists in the north and people in the south are negligible.


  • Options
    #139
    luckyfrank
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,054 ✭✭✭luckyfrank


    Good post o'morrris as a moderate nationalist ive being echo'in the same sentiments in another thread

    All the main politcal parties in the south are moderate and would do anything to ensure unionists felt safe in every aspect in a united ireland

    A large majority of irish people including myself feel that unionists are part of the irish nation i feel strongly that there community should be protected


  • Options
    #140
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    oscarBravo wrote: »
    You can get whatever impression you like, but can you quote a single post that says so?

    I got called a unionist because I don't enthusiastically embrace Republican ideals, but have you seen me call (say) Dudess names, because she'd like to see a UI some day? I don't care what conclusions people decide to jump to about me. I'm not a unionist, and I'm not a republican. I don't want to see a united Ireland anytime soon, because the place is a basket case. As Gandalf says, when the people there have shown they're capable of living together like grown-ups, I might revise my opinion.

    You are very trigger happy locking threads that are anyway critical of the British Army / British rule in NI and when it seems that the Republicans here might be getting the upper hand when it comes to debate. Do you think been called a unionist is somehow an insult? Astonishing if so as I don't thinking referring to someone as a unionist is anyway derogatory.

    You may not have called Dudess names, but you make a fairly personalised attack on her as she obviously felt it necessary to explain to you that she wasn't an anglophobe/Brit hater.

    So, it seems NI is too much trouble for you. Are you one of the ones who posts here who thinks we should be at the heart of Europe, funding an EU army, keeping the peace in the Balkans, the Georgians/Russians apart etc. and expanding the EU to bring Turkey in? And you don't give two tosses what is going on 100 km up the road from Dublin


  • Options
    #141
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I'm a unionist :eek:

    Whats wrong with being a unionst? And I think I said you support a unionist viewpoint (since I don't think you are from NI, I don't think you can be really a unionist in the same way as David Trimble is for example).


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #142
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    thehighground wrote: »
    Whats wrong with being a unionst? And I think I said you support a unionist viewpoint (since I don't think you are from NI, I don't think you can be really a unionist in the same way as David Trimble is for example).

    I would consider myself neutral on the subject to be honest. The trouble is, it is a subject with which it is very difficult to be neutral.


  • Options
    #143
    LordSutch
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,078 ✭✭✭✭LordSutch


    O'Morris wrote: »
    There are republicans out there who don't like you and who want to see your people and your culture done away with. Those people will exist whether you're living in a united Ireland or whether you're governed by the British. I think that your culture will be far better protected in a united Ireland than it is now in the United Kingdom. In a united Ireland, moderate nationalists will be going out of their way to make sure that your well treated and that you're made to feel welcome. You'll be able to march down any road you want in a united Ireland. It's the opposite with the British. English people couldn't give a damn about you or your culture. They see you as a nuisance and they would be glad to see the back of you.

    Actually, that (highlighted section) doesnt sound too bad at all O'Morris ................. :cool:
    Just take it easy with the Term 'British' and we "might" be going somewhere :eek:
    O'Morris wrote: »
    So the choice is between getting a good deal at the hands of people who do want to live in the same country as you or to continue to see your people's political influence slip away while the influence of the Sinn Feiners continues to increase. It's a case of good cop/bad cop. Who would you rather do business with? Moderate nationalists or the provos?

    We HATE the Provo's.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    If the majority of the people in the north vote to join up with the 26 counties then it will no longer be part of the UK.

    That is True O'Morris, and if it happens then so be it, but the way I see things (as a very mild & moderate Unionist) is that the South would have to change in its relationship with 'Britishness' & cultures in Britain & on the island of Ireland . . . in other words, we would probably be back in 1918-22 territory, only this time we might all (England, Scotland, Ireland & Wales) come to some arrangement whereby we recognise our CONNECTIONS & our Cultural ties ......................
    O'Morris wrote: »
    It would make it much more likely though. We'll have a far easier time changing the catholic unionist minds than we will changing the minds of the orangemen. Some catholics might want to continue living under a union with Britain but very few of them have anything like the emotional attachment to the union that the other side have. Most Irish people want to be governed by Irish people in their own country.

    But what defines a 'Country' O'Morris? and dont get me wrong, (I am not being antagonistic) - you & I are currently on a similar wavelength, so I am despirately trying to be diplomatic & unconfrontational.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    Ireland is no more divided culturally than any other European country. If there is any division in Ireland, it's between unionists and everyone else on the island. The differences between nationalists in the north and people in the south are negligible.

    'YES' that is true O'Morris.
    But from an IRISH UNIONIST point of view, all the parts of the 'British Isles' have cultural & historical similarities, which we Unionists just Love to maintain > whereas historically, Irish Nationalists/Republicans have tried to deny & erase all ties . . . "Two Orange Halls in the North burned down today" doesnt help!

    But, it has always been the case (since 1922) that Irish Nationalists/Republicans have always wanted to SPLIT their ideology 100% from any other part of 'These Islands' > whilst on the other hand 'Irish Unionists' desperately want to maintain the cultural ties between Britain & Ireland ......................


    Maybe a lot of our Troubles on this island (Unionist & Nationalist) are down to misinterpretation, ignorance, and misunderstanding between the two main ideologies (British'ness & Irish'ness)?


  • Options
    #144
    nesf
    Registered Users Posts: 27,645 ✭✭✭✭nesf


    thehighground wrote: »
    You are very trigger happy locking threads that are anyway critical of the British Army / British rule in NI and when it seems that the Republicans here might be getting the upper hand when it comes to debate.

    NI threads are like abortion threads. Little actual debate occurs, you just get two bunches of posters, both utterly convinced that they are right, arguing in circles convinced somehow that this time it'll be different and that they might win.

    Argue with OB about whatever you want but don't argue about the moderating of this forum. Take that to either Feedback or the Help Desk (I'd recommend the Help Desk if you want to discuss it seriously).


  • Options
    #145
    Allah Hu Akbar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 218 ✭✭Allah Hu Akbar


    The Help desk? What does that do except the Mod is always right.

    Threads about the troubles never get a debate going because they're always locked as soon as someone claims for example the IRA were right in the war.


  • Options
    #146
    GuanYin
    Closed Accounts Posts: 15,552 ✭✭✭✭GuanYin


    If I see another in-thread post about forum moderation, that person will be banned from the forum.

    Read the rules before posting here.

    Back on topic. Do not reply to this post.


  • Options
    #147
    studiorat
    Closed Accounts Posts: 6,408 ✭✭✭studiorat


    O'Morris wrote: »
    They said the same thing about the European Union. The chances of Ireland being united within the next few decades are many times higher than the chances were of the main European countries coming together and joining in a political union after they had nearly destroyed each other in a world war.

    There have been alliances political and ideological in Europe since the middle ages same as there has been wars. So I think "they" would want to re-examine their statistics. BTW a federal Europe will give greater independance to sub national units just like Ulster. Probably a reason for SF's support of a NO vote.

    O'Morris wrote: »
    You'll be able to march down any road you want in a united Ireland. It's the opposite with the British. English people couldn't give a damn about you or your culture. They see you as a nuisance and they would be glad to see the back of you.

    Ah yeah! As long as the unionists have a place to march they'll be happy anywhere... The Unionist community in the south don't exactly have a history of tolerance from their free state brothers to be fair...

    Unfortunately most Irish Nationalists are stuck back somewhere in the 1940's where the idea of having anything to do with the UK sticks in their throat so much that they didn't and still don't see it is this very attitude that
    copper-fastened the Unionists to their guns.

    The real question for me is though why can't you have a united Ireland with two governments? Why should the Rebublic of Ireland be one country the Island of Ireland as it were when our neighbouring island is 3 countries?

    IMO the Nationalists' notion of a united Ireland is an extremist's wet dream and nothing more than a hangover from the heady days of the 17th and 18th C. It serves no purpose today.

    Maybe someone could explain to me the advantage of having a united Ireland rather than a federation of 2 govnts.


  • Options
    #148
    Dudess
    Closed Accounts Posts: 37,214 ✭✭✭✭Dudess


    thehighground wrote: »
    You may not have called Dudess names, but you make a fairly personalised attack on her as she obviously felt it necessary to explain to you that she wasn't an anglophobe/Brit hater.
    Can I just clarify something?
    thehighground: oscarBravo didn't make any attack on me whatsoever - you've got mixed up there. :)
    What you're referring to is me explaining my stance to Camelot.

    Don't ignore warnings -GY


  • Options
    #149
    Irlbo
    Closed Accounts Posts: 347 ✭✭Irlbo


    The advantage of a United Ireland???,national all Ireland unity,the entire country being under a 32 county republic,finally giving us some completeness,some pride that the country as a whole is under the one government,free from foreign influence,are you so conceeded your just concerned with whats in for you financially?


  • Options
    #150
    thehighground
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,738 ✭✭✭thehighground


    Dudess wrote: »
    Can I just clarify something?
    thehighground: oscarBravo didn't make any attack on me whatsoever - you've got mixed up there. :)
    What you're referring to is me explaining my stance to Camelot.

    I'd regard this as a personal attack on you which you felt the need to defend!

    OscarBravo to Dudess: It's a contrarian viewpoint. This is a discussion forum, where contrarian viewpoints are allowed once they're expressed with civility. Let's keep it on-topic.

    I'd expect better from a mod.


  • Advertisement
  • Options
    #151
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    gurramok wrote: »
    Elections, have you been following current affairs in NI?
    That's not a terribly reliable measure of support for a UI. An individual does not necessarily support all of the policies of the party that they vote for. I'm sure there are plenty of voters in NI who, just like in the south, float between parties depending on who they perceive to be the best candidate in their constituency.

    The most recent poll (2007) I have seen on the subject puts support for a UI in NI at about 23%, with support for the current union at about 66%:
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/2007/Political_Attitudes/NIRELND2.html
    O'Morris wrote: »
    You'll be able to march down any road you want in a united Ireland.
    You're having a laugh, right? I seem to recall they tried such a march in Dublin not too long ago. It didn't go well.
    O'Morris wrote: »
    They're a minority of the catholic population in the north.
    Quite a large minority. In fact, the percentage of Catholics in the North who consider themselves nationalist seems to be declining:
    http://www.ark.ac.uk/nilt/results/polatt.html
    Irlbo wrote: »
    The advantage of a United Ireland???,national all Ireland unity,the entire country being under a 32 county republic,finally giving us some completeness,some pride that the country as a whole is under the one government,free from foreign influence...
    So no real advantages then? That's what I thought.


This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement