Do all Catholics in the six counties want a united Ireland?

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

I want a united Ireland at some stage. I hate to say it but any one from the republic who would again turn there back on Northern Nationalists, is basically a traitor to there nation.

Why so (jingoism aside)?

If the majority of the North wanted to unify the nation, then it should happen. But not untill the majority want it.

So if the majority of the North wanted to unify the island and the majority of the South didn't, you'd still do it? I'm not sure you've gotten a hang of this democracy thing yet.

LordSutch

Deedsie wrote: »

I want a united Ireland at some stage.

I want Cludia Winkleman to marry me at some stage too

Deedsie wrote: »

I hate to say it but any one from the republic who would again turn there back on Northern Nationalists, is basically a traitor to there nation.

I hate to say it, but anybody who goes round saying things like the above is living in some kind'a 1970's Ultra Republican timewarp, wake up Deedsie - this is the Ireland of 2008 where Unionists are welcome

Deedsie wrote: »

If the majority of the North wanted to unify the nation, then it should happen. But not untill the majority want it.

Nation? Unify? what? Majority of who in the North? I am getting mixed messages off this one Deedsie, and I presume you mean that 'if' the majority of the population of the North want to leave the UK? then a United Ireland will replace it? or are you just talking about a Nationalist Majority :cool:

djpbarry

Deedsie wrote: »

I hate to say it but any one from the republic who would again turn there back on Northern Nationalists, is basically a traitor to there nation.

So call me a traitor, dress me up in red, white and blue and ship me off to Old Blighty. What else are you possibly to do with those who hold different opinions to you, eh?

djpbarry

Camelot wrote: »

...Winkleman...

Tawny

stardust_dublin wrote: »

out of interest, how many people regard Northern Irish as 'Irish'? how can many of them even call themselves Irish? i think they need to ask themselves
what flag they fly?
what currency they use?
is Irish language taught in their schools?
are there Gardai on their streets?
what citizenship does their passport state they are?... British, thats what.

People from N.I are NOT Irish in the real sense of what being Irish really is!

LOL

what flag they fly? Depends on the area

what currency they use? Depends on the area (border areas all take Euros now, but by using Euros you are European not Irish)

is Irish language taught in their schools? yes

are there Gardai on their streets? about as often as I see Gardai on the streets down south.

what citizenship does their passport state they are? Depends which passport you apply for. However, no passport from someone born in Northern Ireland defines them as British (Great Britain = Britain as at the time of Queen Anne (Scotland, Wales, England). It is always Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

The Corinthian

Tawny wrote: »

what citizenship does their passport state they are? Depends which passport you apply for. However, no passport from someone born in Northern Ireland defines them as British (Great Britain = Britain as at the time of Queen Anne (Scotland, Wales, England). It is always Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

I was never liked how the UK hijacked the term Britain. The British Isles are an archipelago of islands of which the two largest are Ireland (Hibernia) and Great Britain (Albion). Unfortunately, while technically part of the British Isles, because the term is used to denote a multi-national state in the largest island of the archipelago, it means that the use is discouraged, because it implies a political claim on the whole archipelago.

In short, I'd have no problem referring to Ireland as part of the British Isles, if Britain renamed (correctly) to the United Kingdom of Albion and Northern Ireland.

OT pedantry over.

LordSutch

I dunno how the term 'British Isles' got into this thread, seeing as this term is a purely Geographical Term. (and rightly so) as currently used by Media-Weather outlets in Britain & Ireland to describe this archipelago.

P.S. Pat kenny makes me laugh by deliberately not using the term 'british isles', which he has now replaced with "These Islands" a term which is also used by at least six other archipelago's on the Globe :rolleyes:

Deedsie

You are all entitled to your opinions. I dont really care what they are. Im sure if it went to a vote, there would be a minority in the Republic that would vote against Reunification.

Im a republican certainly. So i am surely allowed to disagree with these people? Politics is the name of the forum? If it was voted on tomorrow, are you suggesting the term "Traitor to your Nation" would not be used or at least alluded to by the Yes side? Delusional if you do think that.

If you couldnt understand the gist of my post then, i dont really want to explain it to you. Suffice it to say i am for unionists to be part of this country with equal rights for every citizen in the country. Right down the line.

You seem to take joy in telling people they are wrong for there beliefs? The majority of the Irish nation (North, South & Middle want a united Ireland. You are the minority in Ireland as a whole.

gurramok

The Corinthian wrote: »

I was never liked how the UK hijacked the term Britain. The British Isles are an archipelago of islands of which the two largest are Ireland (Hibernia) and Great Britain (Albion). Unfortunately, while technically part of the British Isles, because the term is used to denote a multi-national state in the largest island of the archipelago, it means that the use is discouraged, because it implies a political claim on the whole archipelago.

In short, I'd have no problem referring to Ireland as part of the British Isles, if Britain renamed (correctly) to the United Kingdom of Albion and Northern Ireland.

OT pedantry over.

No it's not. That is a silly post. You uphold the term which was invented by the Romans so they could rule over the islands and call them a single term.(Britannia) without consulting the inhabitants.
It was the English who first used the British Isles version and promoted it as the British Empire grew throughout the centuries despite us Irish having no say in its use.
Anyway, our own govt and state does not use the term and neither shall I as it is downright offensive.:mad:

getz

if you dont like the word british isles because the british invented it -why call ireland ,ireland the british invented that name too':rolleyes:

djpbarry

gurramok wrote: »

Anyway, our own govt and state does not use the term and neither shall I as it is downright offensive.

:rolleyes:

I shall no longer refer to the Indian Ocean as "Indian", as I believe the inhabitants of Mauritius may find it offensive.

Deedsie

getz wrote: »

if you dont like the word british isles because the british invented it -why call ireland ,ireland the british invented that name too':rolleyes:

Thought it came from the De Dannann Queen "Eire"? Eireland > Ireland?

gurramok

getz wrote: »

if you dont like the word british isles because the british invented it -why call ireland ,ireland the british invented that name too':rolleyes:

What?

Ireland's name is derived from the Celtic goddess Ériu.

djpbarry wrote:

I shall no longer refer to the Indian Ocean as "Indian", as I believe the inhabitants of Mauritius may find it offensive.

Not the same. That's named after an ocean where no humans live in the water.

Deedsie

djpbarry wrote: »

:rolleyes:

I shall no longer refer to the Indian Ocean as "Indian", as I believe the inhabitants of Mauritius may find it offensive.

I shall never refer to Derry as "London"-Derry, as i believe the inhabitants, of Fermanagh, Tyrone and Derry may find it offensive.

Irlbo

Honestly guys,why be so in the closet about being a Westbrit,you obviously love Britain so much an reckon they should run the whole of Ireland not just the North,Camelot were you on that list of BNP members in the 26 counties?

LordSutch

There are whole threads dedicated to this geographical term, I dunno why we should get into it here?

Just for the record (& if you have an Atlas handy) the term was first used by the ancients in relation to the large island located off the North West coast of 'Brittany' - hence the similarity in Brittany - Brittania - Large Brittany - Grand Britannia - & finally 'Great Britain' or 'large Brittany' and the sorrounding 6000 islands!
(Hibernia & the isle of Man included) before any political borders were drawn on the local map.

Hence this offensive term to 'some' narrow minded thinking people, but which in reality relates only to . . . (the archipelago of islands off the french Coast of Brittany)

Irlbo

This is Ireland,regardless of where the name comes from,Eireann,Eire,whatever you want to call it,we are sovreign unique race with our own culture,tradition and language,this has all been established through hundreds of years devoloping as a nation and race,something we will hopefully have an entirely free sovreign nation to be proud of

LordSutch

Yes, but are you a catholic, & do you want a 'United Ireland' (whatever that means) :rolleyes:

Deedsie

Camelot wrote: »

Yes, but are you a catholic, & do you want a 'United Ireland' (whatever that means) :rolleyes:

You dont know what a united Ireland means? It would be the unification of northern Ireland and the Republic Of Ireland in to a united sovereign state, democratically voted for by the people of Ireland.

Just to clear it up for you.

Irlbo

Never said I was a Catholic,I go to church as much as I play Cricket,which is never,a United Ireland ie a complete 32 county sovreign independent republic,as in getting the British establishment and all its tentacles out of the 6 counties

LordSutch

Yes, but what is the british establishment? & what are the british tentacles you speak of?

The People? The NHS? The BBC? The Royal Mail? The National trust? Tesco? Vodafone? The DUP? or just anybody & everything that sounds a little british to you? What are the british tentacles you speak of Irlbro ?

Bearing in mind, that the majorityof the population in the North are British.

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

You are all entitled to your opinions. I dont really care what they are.

As the expression goes, opinions are like assholes - everyone's got one.

However, what differentiates opinions is where one understands the logic behind and can back them up. If you can't, you're still entitled to it, but can't expect to be taken any more seriously than someone who believes in the tooth fairy.

Im sure if it went to a vote, there would be a minority in the Republic that would vote against Reunification.

Why are you so sure? Because it's your opinion? I really can't understand this belief that one can state a fact without actually actually knowing the facts.

Im a republican certainly. So i am surely allowed to disagree with these people? Politics is the name of the forum? If it was voted on tomorrow, are you suggesting the term "Traitor to your Nation" would not be used or at least alluded to by the Yes side? Delusional if you do think that.

I'm sure the term "Traitor to your Nation" would be used. But then again it depends upon your perspective; remember, technically the anti-treaty faction in 1922 opposed independence. De facto they were "Traitors to your Nation" by exactly the same logic you're using.

If you couldnt understand the gist of my post then, i dont really want to explain it to you. Suffice it to say i am for unionists to be part of this country with equal rights for every citizen in the country. Right down the line.

I understand what your post said (and it said nothing about unionists being part of our country - you just added that in now), I just don't think you've really thought it through outside of a few jingoistic clichés.

You seem to take joy in telling people they are wrong for there beliefs? The majority of the Irish nation (North, South & Middle want a united Ireland. You are the minority in Ireland as a whole.

Again, you've jumped to a number of conclusions; firstly that majority of the people in Ireland want unification and secondly that they want the same type of unification.

Indeed, I think you could easily convince unionists of unification if you offered the right deal, but would that deal be acceptable to northern nationalists, or for that matter us southerners?

Personally, I believe that the majority of people on both sides of the border would like to see a united Ireland in theory. It's the practice that would see support fall off quickly, if mismanaged. And if you are anything to go by where it comes to that management, then I don't think the unionists have much to worry about.

Deedsie

I have no prob with the Britishness, let em off with there dressing up and marching. Couldnt give a toss, might make a few bob on tourism in the Boyne? I just want the nation united as an independent Sovereign neutral state.

The majority in certain parts of Northern Ireland consider themselves British but what about the Nationalist parts? How are they represented? There is a nationalist majority in 7 of 9 Ulster counties. Correct?

The Corinthian

gurramok wrote: »

No it's not. That is a silly post. You uphold the term which was invented by the Romans so they could rule over the islands and call them a single term.(Britannia) without consulting the inhabitants.

It was the Greeks.

It was the English who first used the British Isles version and promoted it as the British Empire grew throughout the centuries despite us Irish having no say in its use.

Indeed, which is why it has fallen out of favour and why I would avoid its use. I was simply lamenting the English appropriation of the word for the act of union, which led to this distortion.

Anyway, our own govt and state does not use the term and neither shall I as it is downright offensive.:mad:

Oh, do stop taking yourself so seriously.

oscarBravo

Deedsie wrote: »

So i am surely allowed to disagree with these people?

You can disagree with anyone and anything, as long as you do it within the guidelines. If you're not clear on these, go and read them now.

If it was voted on tomorrow, are you suggesting the term "Traitor to your Nation" would not be used or at least alluded to by the Yes side?

"Traitor" is not a term that should be bandied about lightly, and certainly not levelled against any posters on this forum.

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

I just want the nation united as an independent Sovereign neutral state.

Since when have be ever been neutral? Those military planes in Shannon must be a figment of our imagination then.

The majority in certain parts of Northern Ireland consider themselves British but what about the Nationalist parts? How are they represented? There is a nationalist majority in 7 of 9 Ulster counties. Correct?

A fair point. If county by county they could unite with the south, though, county by county we should ask the south, county by county, if we want to unite also.

Dangerous proposition.

Deedsie

Are you not jumping to the same conclusions Corinthian? I have looked up recent census data. UK 2001. Sinn Feins growth in popularity in the North. Fianna Fails crazy success in the south, is because in my opinion, Fine Gael is a lite alternative, that will never shake the commonwealth party tag. (And Fianna Fail antics up to 6 months ago, but that is a different story.)

You make out i am a raving shinner from my posts, someone claimed i do not really understand how Democracy works. I think democracy has failed in certain instances in this Island. So i make a point to air my grievances, perhaps i do not do it with the greatest of tact, and sensitivity towards unionist sensitivies. However, unfortunatley this seems to be the only way to get a reaction/response about the political situation regarding the question of Irish unity, The naming of Derry, Irish Neutrality, the growing Nationalist population in the North & what nationalist have had to endure in the 6 counties.

LordSutch

Deedsie wrote: »

Fine Gael is a lite alternative, that will never shake the commonwealth party tag.

Ah, now you're talking my language ............

The Corinthian

Deedsie wrote: »

Are you not jumping to the same conclusions Corinthian? I have looked up recent census data. UK 2001. Sinn Feins growth in popularity in the North. Fianna Fails crazy success in the south, is because in my opinion, Fine Gael is a lite alternative, that will never shake the commonwealth party tag. (And Fianna Fail antics up to 6 months ago, but that is a different story.)

Not really. As I said, I believe that there is likely a majority aspiration towards unification, but the strength of that aspiration and the conditions under which it would receive support are more open to question.

After all, what does unification really mean? What shape would it take? What concessions would be made? What would be the cost? Once you ask a few of these questions you quickly find such aspirations ebb away.

Ultimately, any referendum, as I said earlier is not a foregone conclusion, even in the south. Questions like the above really have to be answered before you can assess what will happen, and it is this lack of asking questions like this by nationalists that leave me shaking my head.

You make out i am a raving shinner from my posts, someone claimed i do not really understand how Democracy works. I think democracy has failed in certain instances in this Island. So i make a point to air my grievances, perhaps i do not do it with the greatest of tact, and sensitivity towards unionist sensitivies.

You first claimed as fact a nationalist opinion, then went on to suggest that the south should not have any say in unification in a referendum. So you'll forgive me if I got the impression that you were a bit of a clueless chucky.

However, unfortunatley this seems to be the only way to get a reaction/response about the political situation regarding the question of Irish unity, The naming of Derry, Irish Neutrality, the growing Nationalist population in the North & what nationalist have had to endure in the 6 counties.

Causes more harm than good, IMHO. Fools rush in, and all that jazz.

Deedsie

I dont think 80 years of defying the will of the people of Derry the right to decide the name of their own sod can really be regarded as rushing in?

I realise there would be concession made to unionists if a united Ireland was to be declared, however the title of this thread refers to the wanting of a united Ireland. No mention of a united Ireland under a new flag, Anthem and all that Jazz.

To the very basic question of would people prefer a united Ireland, nothing more nothing less, then i think yes would be the answer.