Insulation Foil on Out-Side External Wall

Luuca

Hi There,

Is there insulation foil you can get for the out-side external wall ?
if so, has anyone used it in the past, was it easy to put up etc ?

Thanks

sydthebeat

Luuca wrote: »

Hi There,

Is there insulation foil you can get for the out-side external wall ?
if so, has anyone used it in the past, was it easy to put up etc ?

Thanks

firstly... insulation foil?? do you mean multi-foil type? these hve been shown to have much reduced insulation properties than first claimed.

secondly, on the external wall?? do you mean the outside leaf of a cavity wall...
this wouldnt work at all because
1. the cavity allows air flow which dramatically reduces the insulation value of anything 'outside of it...
2. the external leaf is a 'weather shield', any insulation should be behind this.
3. thirdly, how would you put a finish onto a foil?

the main insulations used externally are either EPS (polystyrene) based of softboard (if looking for a breathable option). These are generally applied to solid wall masses (with no cavity).

perhaps give us an idea of what you are trying to do and we could give a few options?

RKQ

External insulation board, fixed to a solid wall needs to be rendered. External insulation usually works out more expensive for this reason - fixings, mesh, render, deeper cills etc.

Multi-layer foils require a airspace to work well. This would be a difficult detail for a material with questionable or disputed test results.
Syd is right... can you give more details?

No6

My advice is avoid the foils untill such time as their insulation value is proven, no sign of it so far. On a related issue has anyone used external insulation on refurb projects and if they did what kind of costs were they looking at. I have a few people with old mass concrete houses where it would be easier to insulate externally but will it be more cost effective?

Builderfromhell

No6 wrote: »

My advice is avoid the foils untill such time as their insulation value is proven, no sign of it so far. On a related issue has anyone used external insulation on refurb projects and if they did what kind of costs were they looking at. I have a few people with old mass concrete houses where it would be easier to insulate externally but will it be more cost effective?

If insulating externally, consider the following;

1. Fascia and soffit may need to be extended.
2. window cills may need to be changed to wider ones or window and cill brought forward.
3. insulation would need to return into window frames at Jambs. This can bring up a few problems namely
a. Windows may no longer open outwards.
b. Window frame may virtually disappear behind insulation.
c. Fitting new, smaller, windows may solve problem but will reduce light to room and may restrict fire escape. The above applies to doors too.

Despite the above insulating externally is, in my view, the best option in certain cases.

trevdahead

Builderfromhell wrote: »

If insulating externally, consider the following;

1. Fascia and soffit may need to be extended.
2. window cills may need to be changed to wider ones or window and cill brought forward.
3. insulation would need to return into window frames at Jambs. This can bring up a few problems namely
a. Windows may no longer open outwards.
b. Window frame may virtually disappear behind insulation.
c. Fitting new, smaller, windows may solve problem but will reduce light to room and may restrict fire escape. The above applies to doors too.

Despite the above insulating externally is, in my view, the best option in certain cases.

hi just a few comments on your post

1)from experience most homes that we have externally insulated have a over hang on their roofs of between 100-125mm,we use a 70mm phenolic board so hence do not have a problem with the fascia and soffit.

2)aliminium cills can be attached over existing cill to recreate the original cill affect,once painted there is no difference.

3)plaster at window reveals is hacked off back to existing block work and insulation is attached to the return,windows are never buried and will always be able to open to their full,new windows are never required,unless the client wants them.

hope this clears up a few of those problems,i agree with you that external insulation is the best option and for alot of homes its the only option.although it can be more expensive,the results far outway the costs,ie cosy warm home,giving your home a good BER rating(future proofing),much lower energy costs etc

sinnerboy

How do you re - fix rain water pipes ? Without causing thermal sinks ?
Ditto for eternal lights , alarm boxes ?
What about external soil stacks - do you need to use plumbers to reconnect to them when moved out 75mm for the wall face ?

No6

Thanks lads but my main query was about the costs of using external insulation relative to the cost of drylining internally. which has its own problems, wiring, skirtings, covings, skimming internally in finished rooms....trev what part of the world are you in and what system do you use? PM please.

trevdahead

sinnerboy wrote: »

How do you re - fix rain water pipes ? Without causing thermal sinks ?
Ditto for eternal lights , alarm boxes ?
What about external soil stacks - do you need to use plumbers to reconnect to them when moved out 75mm for the wall face ?

hi,all of the above can be done quite easily,from time to time we do
come across problems with lights etc but its not usually a major issue, can be solved quite easily.
as for the the soil stacks we have yet to find one that we cant work around without compromising on thermal quality.
hope this helps

trevdahead

No6 wrote: »

Thanks lads but my main query was about the costs of using external insulation relative to the cost of drylining internally. which has its own problems, wiring, skirtings, covings, skimming internally in finished rooms....trev what part of the world are you in and what system do you use? PM please.

hi there
we are based in cork,we use a weber system,we are also installers for rockwool.ill pm you my contact details.
thanks

sinnerboy

trevdahead wrote: »

hi,all of the above can be done quite easily,from time to time we do
come across problems with lights etc but its not usually a major issue, can be solved quite easily.
as for the the soil stacks we have yet to find one that we cant work around without compromising on thermal quality.
hope this helps

How ?

sinnerboy

No6 wrote: »

Thanks lads but my main query was about the costs of using external insulation relative to the cost of drylining internally. which has its own problems, wiring, skirtings, covings, skimming internally in finished rooms....trev what part of the world are you in and what system do you use? PM please.

Crude ball parks ...

Dryling and associated "hassles" - €50-60m2

External ins about €100-120 . Not sure about costing "hassles" . Big cost taken up be scaffolding + render system

trevdahead

sinnerboy wrote: »

Crude ball parks ...

Dryling and associated "hassles" - €50-60m2

External ins about €100-120 . Not sure about costing "hassles" . Big cost taken up be scaffolding + render system

all you have done throughout this thread is try and put up arguments against
external insulation,when you clearly have no experience with using the system and fail to see the benefits.
your pricing is totally wrong,depending on varying factors the cost can be considerably less than what you have quoted.
as for scaffold,again this is only a minor issue and does not take a up "a big cost" in the job.
hope this helps

sinnerboy

You assume too much . Can you please - expand on your answers to the queries I raised and correct my pricing

sydthebeat

trevdahead wrote: »

all you have done throughout this thread is try and put up arguments against
external insulation,when you clearly have no experience with using the system and fail to see the benefits.
your pricing is totally wrong,depending on varying factors the cost can be considerably less than what you have quoted.
as for scaffold,again this is only a minor issue and does not take a up "a big cost" in the job.
hope this helps

not really....

perhaps give us a break down of the system you use in terms of cost...
material?
scaffolding?
render?
labour?
etc.....

also, can you answer SBs question as to how you 'easily' manage the relocation / augmentation of soil vent pipes, rain water down pies etc...

does this involve installing new gullies?

trevdahead

sydthebeat wrote: »

not really....

perhaps give us a break down of the system you use in terms of cost...
material?
scaffolding?
render?
labour?
etc.....

also, can you answer SBs question as to how you 'easily' manage the relocation / augmentation of soil vent pipes, rain water down pies etc...

does this involve installing new gullies?

if you cant see how this is done ,then im sorry im not going to sit here all night and go through it pipe by pipe or bolt by bolt.as i said earlier we have
not found this to be an issue.
as for wanting a breakdown of how we price our jobs,i dont feel a public forum is the place for it.do you

Carlow52

This post looks like an advertisement by trevahead or if not is pretty damn close which is not following forum rules.

most homes that we have externally insulated

:eek:

On pricing just for fun I called a IAB certified external render crowd today who told me that the render alone is 110 a sq metre.

Therefore the pricing questions raised here are valid.

am curious how this statement can be left stand

...hope this clears up a few of those problems,i agree with you that external insulation is the best option and for alot of homes its the only option.although it can be more expensive,the results far outway the costs,ie cosy warm home,giving your home a good BER rating(future proofing),much lower energy costs etc..

sydthebeat

trevdahead wrote: »

if you cant see how this is done ,then im sorry im not going to sit here all night and go through it pipe by pipe or bolt by bolt.as i said earlier we have
not found this to be an issue.
as for wanting a breakdown of how we price our jobs,i dont feel a public forum is the place for it.do you

fine....

dont come onto a public forum then touting a system that you wont describe, nor wont give an idea of costs....

a very stupid move if you dont mind me saying...
there a lot of persons on this forum who specify construction, and you are doing your sector of the industry no help AT ALL with your statements and lack of ability to describe your product.....

as for pricing your product... you havent stated your company name, so i dont see what your issue is..... unless youve something to hide, which i seriously suspect you do...

goodbye.

trevdahead

Carlow52 wrote: »

This post looks like an advertisement by trevahead or if not is pretty damn close which is not following forum rules.
:eek:

On pricing just for fun I called a IAB certified external render crowd today who told me that the render alone is 110 a sq metre.

Therefore the pricing questions raised here are valid.

am curious how this statement can be left stand

if a company told you that the render alone is 110e m2,then id like to know what they are putting in the mix,gold?that is a ridiculous price,i suggest you were quoted wrong.

im unsure at why you have a problem with my statement,i dont see what is wrong with it.im entitled to my opinion just like everbody else

as for advertising,my inclusion of the word 'we' is merely to show that i have knowledge of what i am posting and in no way was meant to advertise

trevdahead

sydthebeat wrote: »

fine....

dont come onto a public forum then touting a system that you wont describe, nor wont give an idea of costs....

a very stupid move if you dont mind me saying...
there a lot of persons on this forum who specify construction, and you are doing your sector of the industry no help AT ALL with your statements and lack of ability to describe your product.....

as for pricing your product... you havent stated your company name, so i dont see what your issue is..... unless youve something to hide, which i seriously suspect you do...

goodbye.

firstly i didnt come on touting anything,i was simply replying to a post from builderfromhell,regarding his experiences or misgivings about external insulation,i did not bring costs into the issue.

secondly,i dont feel it is of any great importance in describing how to move waste pipes or dealing with outside lights,but you seem to have an awful hang up about it.

finally,your unfounded accusation that i have something to hide is a silly way to try and discredit my posts.im amazed that you have resorted to this kind of carry on.

i have no problem posting my full name and company name here.can you

sydthebeat

trevdahead wrote: »

1. firstly i didnt come on touting anything,i was simply replying to a post from builderfromhell,regarding his experiences or misgivings about external insulation,i did not bring costs into the issue.

2. secondly,i dont feel it is of any great importance in describing how to move waste pipes or dealing with outside lights,but you seem to have an awful hang up about it.

3. finally,your unfounded accusation that i have something to hide is a silly way to try and discredit my posts.im amazed that you have resorted to this kind of carry on.

i have no problem posting my full name and company name here.can you

1. eh... read your first post..."hi there
we are based in cork,we use a weber system,we are also installers for rockwool.ill pm you my contact details.
thanks "
If thats not touting for business, then im giovanni trappatoni!!

2. you dont feel its of any importance... fair enough... but that doesnt take from the fact its a very pertinent question...

3. dont flatter yourself, i have no interest in discrediting anything you have posted... if you read through enough posts you will see that both sinnerboy and myself have championed external insulation previously... so you are simply cutting your nose to spite your face.

As to posting my name, enough here already know it.

If you are not interested in sharing information on a public forum then why exactly are you here, short of the touting, that is.....

trevdahead

sydthebeat wrote: »

1. eh... read your first post..."hi there
we are based in cork,we use a weber system,we are also installers for rockwool.ill pm you my contact details.
thanks "
If thats not touting for business, then im giovanni trappatoni!!

2. you dont feel its of any importance... fair enough... but that doesnt take from the fact its a very pertinent question...

3. dont flatter yourself, i have no interest in discrediting anything you have posted... if you read through enough posts you will see that both sinnerboy and myself have championed external insulation previously... so you are simply cutting your nose to spite your face.

As to posting my name, enough here already know it.

If you are not interested in sharing information on a public forum then why exactly are you here, short of the touting, that is.....

well hi giovanni,thanks for the reply.if i was touting,then i feel the mod would have banned me,my post on the systems we use was an aswer to a question,or is that not permitted now.

whats is so pertinent about moving and adjusting waste pipes?


if you have championed then why are you being so beligerant towards my replies?

i have shared information on here,and am happy to so,but just because that info is not to your liking doesnt give you the right to discredit me.
ive never seen so much hassle over a few **** pipes and outside cables.

again let the mod ban me if im touting,or do you know the difference between touting and answering posts with knowledge and experience that a person may have.god forbid you are allowed speak on a topic that you know about.