Dublin Bus route 5 Day Rambler Smartcard

sadchild

Hi All,

Yesterday, I've bought a 5 Day Rambler Smartcard in Fresh on Camden St., today when I tried to use it, I got a message that this ticket expired (was used at 6th of Oct). So bassicaly, it looks that I bought a used 5 Day Rambler Smartcard.
Does anyone here faced some problem with "5 Day Rambler Smartcard"?

The problem is that I can't return it, I can't do anything about it - I have to get a new one.
I don't know if someone from the "fresh" used it for a week, and then put it back as you can't check it at all.
Strange....and annoying.

best,
Dominic

Alun

It might be worth popping in to the DB offices on O'Connell Street and explaing what happened. I suppose it's your word against theirs really, but it's worth a try.

sadchild

I already tried that...They told me that there is nothing they can do about it.
It means that I have to pay double price for the ticket during this week.grrr

Tarabuses

sadchild wrote: »

The problem is that I can't return it, I can't do anything about it - I have to get a new one.
I don't know if someone from the "fresh" used it for a week, and then put it back as you can't check it at all.
Strange....and annoying.

best,
Dominic

Why can't you return it to Fresh since they have the obligation under the Sale of Goods Act to provide you with what you paid for - a bus ticket that is valid?

sadchild

in theory you're right. But it is quite hard to proof that the ticket was "already used" in the day that I bought it. I just rang DB so far, I will go to Fresh today to see what the will tell me. I will let you know as soon as I get something.

AlekSmart

One interim solution to what is becoming quite a widespread scam is to insist on a recepit for your ticket..it`s not perfect but it does prove the provenance of the purchase.
Human nature being what it is,I can forsee tamper proof stickers coming along soon.....

antoinolachtnai

Is this a widespread scam now?

Mimikyu

This post has been deleted.

Victor

Solitaryman666 wrote: »

This post has been deleted.

Well, foil-sealed covers, seeing as they are contactless - you don't even have to take them out of your wallet.

MOH

sadchild wrote: »

in theory you're right. But it is quite hard to proof that the ticket was "already used" in the day that I bought it. I just rang DB so far, I will go to Fresh today to see what the will tell me. I will let you know as soon as I get something.

If it was a 5 day ticket and you bought it yesterday, shouldn't it still be working today? That it isn't should be proof something's up.

bk

Victor wrote: »

Well, foil-sealed covers, seeing as they are contactless - you don't even have to take them out of your wallet.

However there are specific types of foil which block RF signals that can and should be used.

Run_to_da_hills

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Is this a widespread scam now?

+1 Yes it is going to be an up and coming scam. Smart cards will be issued at the discretion of CIE. You have absolutely no visible evidence of ticket validation at time of purchase, no date stamps etc. The ticket the OP purchased could have easily been a used up ticket that had been left lying around the ticket office.

At touch in you are only relying on a series of audible beeps. If you were deaf or elderly you may not notice them and could possibly be on board with an invalid smart card. When the system is in full swing you could be fined €50 for not having a validated ticket.

I can suggest the OP get a print out of the "dud" ticket and challenge them on it. This again will push for the need for having registered smart cards.

L1011

You blather on about privacy concerns and now you're pushing for registered smartcards?

I'm seriously confused...

Run_to_da_hills

MYOB wrote: »

You blather on about privacy concerns and now you're pushing for registered smartcards?

I'm seriously confused...

I'm not pushing anything. I am speaking of the weaknesses of this short sighted current system that will inevitability lead the way to the registered system. I could list you over dozens of advantages for having smartcard registration but all at a cost to the commuter.

AlekSmart

I should have pointed out to sadchild that if their Smartcard fails to read or reads incorrectly they should present it to the Busdriver and ask for a printout from the Ticket Machine.
This will at least give the holder some hard copy to present to Dublin Bus when raising their questions.

As RTDH points out the amount of information stored on the cards is quite sufficient for the company to identify the journeys made Pre-Sale.
If the time frame was sufficiently short it would then be possible to review the CCTV footage from the Bus relating to the EXACT time the disputed card was first used.

This type of opportunist scam only occurs due to the perpretrator believing that they will never be caught...the RFID Smartcard,if sufficiently well utilized,can work to actually nail the chancer in the act !!

Tarabuses

AlekSmart wrote: »

I should have pointed out to sadchild that if their Smartcard fails to read or reads incorrectly they should present it to the Busdriver and ask for a printout from the Ticket Machine.
This will at least give the holder some hard copy to present to Dublin Bus when raising their questions.

As RTDH points out the amount of information stored on the cards is quite sufficient for the company to identify the journeys made Pre-Sale.
If the time frame was sufficiently short it would then be possible to review the CCTV footage from the Bus relating to the EXACT time the disputed card was first used.

This type of opportunist scam only occurs due to the perpretrator believing that they will never be caught...the RFID Smartcard,if sufficiently well utilized,can work to actually nail the chancer in the act !!

Judging by the response that sadchild received from DB it seems that they couldn't be bothered trying to find the chancer in the act. The perpretrator is probably safe enough in the circumstances:(

Del2005

AlekSmart wrote: »

I should have pointed out to sadchild that if their Smartcard fails to read or reads incorrectly they should present it to the Busdriver and ask for a printout from the Ticket Machine.
This will at least give the holder some hard copy to present to Dublin Bus when raising their questions.

As RTDH points out the amount of information stored on the cards is quite sufficient for the company to identify the journeys made Pre-Sale.
If the time frame was sufficiently short it would then be possible to review the CCTV footage from the Bus relating to the EXACT time the disputed card was first used.

This type of opportunist scam only occurs due to the perpretrator believing that they will never be caught...the RFID Smartcard,if sufficiently well utilized,can work to actually nail the chancer in the act !!

I understand where you are coming from but by the nature of the OP having the card they can't catch the culprit in the act. And I doubt that DB's security cameras on buses are good enough for face recognition and instant alert to DB inspectors if the culprit gets onto another bus. And even if it could do you think the Gardai will do a blues and twos run to catch someone on a bus who can get off at any stop before they get to the bus?

I know the bus drivers has more then enough on their plate then to have to
compare ever punter getting onto a bus with the face from the CCTV.

So the culprit can and will get away with it till DB sell the card in antistatic bags so people can't do this.

AlekSmart

I`m not advocating any blue`n two situ at all.

What I`m proposing is that IF the purchaser has a reciept which ties the Ticket to the Vendor then the first recorded use of the Ticket can be linked through the date stamp with the on-bus CCTV which is more than capable of providing recognizable images.

It should be possible then for the Gardai in conjunction with the Vendors management to pinpoint/eliminate any Staff involvement.

However,just as with the Stillorgan QBC/Belfield weekly riots,every single one of the responsible agencies is busy looking in the opposite direction,a tactic well practiced but usually fatal !!

Fix this situation now BEFORE it becomes a bigger issue

Del2005

AlekSmart wrote: »

I`m not advocating any blue`n two situ at all.

What I`m proposing is that IF the purchaser has a reciept which ties the Ticket to the Vendor then the first recorded use of the Ticket can be linked through the date stamp with the on-bus CCTV which is more than capable of providing recognizable images.

It should be possible then for the Gardai in conjunction with the Vendors management to pinpoint/eliminate any Staff involvement.

However,just as with the Stillorgan QBC/Belfield weekly riots,every single one of the responsible agencies is busy looking in the opposite direction,a tactic well practiced but usually fatal !!

Fix this situation now BEFORE it becomes a bigger issue

Got you now. Pretty stupid to forget it has to be the shop staff doing it:o

Wasn't serious about the Gardai, they have bigger fish to catch, should have put a in that bit.

Sorry for going OT, but what's happening at on the Stillorgan QBC?

antoinolachtnai

OK, this is the thing about transport fraud (and most other small-time fraud) management.

If someone does it once, it actually doesn't matter. You can write it off.

The reason for pursuing it is because quite likely this guy will do this again, and again, and again. He will do it repeatedly on the same route, from the same stop, around the same times of day.

This is how the Luas inspections work. It isn't just random. They know who the repeat offenders are and they go after them to bring them into line.

If he is doing this again and again (what's the point if he isn't?) he will be easy to catch. You might not succeed in convicting him (although you might) you would certainly make life difficult for him. He would almost certainly lose his job, for instance, assuming he's working for the dealer.

You have to give chase. The reason is that the smartcard systems (or any other ticket) end up with security issues. All you can hope to do is to make sure it is more hassle and more expense to steal from the system, compared to buying a legitimate ticket.

If you put it in foil, they will slit the foil. Also, you will increase the cost. The margins in public transport are not very big. You can't just keep adding extra security features to disposable cards.

Dealer fraud is an old issue. The mobile operators have it, the long distance phone companies have it, Dublin Bus has it (with paper tickets too). The only question is how to manage it.

Heart

Sorry for going OT, but what's happening at on the Stillorgan QBC?

Buses are not serving the Belfield Campus after 9.30pm at night due to on going anti-social behaviour.

H

Run_to_da_hills

Heart wrote: »

Buses are not serving the Belfield Campus after 9.30pm at night due to on going anti-social behaviour.

H

I believe that the Alexander ALX 400's and Enviro500's that are used on this route have 8 built in high definition digital CCTV cameras on board. Three upstairs, four downstairs and one foreward facing. Can they not use these to catch the perpitrators ?

AlekSmart

RTDH,I`m afraid all the CCTV in Montrose will not address the problems which are mounting each week along the Stillorgan Road...It will of course be addressed rapidly after the first fatality..

The essence is that age old combination of "Yoots" and Drink,although one can now add "substances" to the mix.

Essentially from 18.30 or so,the Yoots crawl out from under their particular rocks and make haste for several N11 locations such as Stillorgan Village,Belfield and that hoary oul chesnut....Bective Rugby Club.

Now being Irish yoots,they simply HAVE to attempt alcoholic poisoning before getting to their destination and this is usually attempted upstairs on the Bus.
Now I don`t have any particular problem with a well educated young chap who wishes to remove his liver and wave it about over his head but I fully expect him to clean up after himself.

Put simply the nature and volume of alcohol related debris strewn about the bus after these buffoons have travelled is sickening.
It is as if nobody taught these guys and gals how to wipe their own backsides and they fully expect somebody else to clean up their droppings.

Add this to drunken staggering along the roadway,general abuse of both drivers and passengers alike and then the temerity to straight facedly request a CHILD fare and you can smell a big wet fish.

Oddly enough the various venues mentioned all claim to be powerless to address the issues as they happen outside of their areas of responsibility.
Even odder is Bus Atha Cliaths somewhat timid response to the growing problem given the very wide ranging and efective set of Dublin Bus By-Laws which govern behaviour on and about the Bus service.

Some put the inaction down to the,ahem,......calibre of many of the perpretrators and the very real suspicion that any young Garda not familiar with the origin of the term "Would you like a Pint....or a Transfer" would quickly learn it if he/she had to bring young Sebastian home to his Hyse,somewhere in darkest Focksrockia or mayhap....Cobbinteeleaf.....:eek:

Eventually,Bus Atha Cliath will have to bite the bullet,by then it will be the equivalent of a field gun shell,and employ private security a-la the Dart...but by that stage it will be too late to regain the confidence of the ordinary passenger just wanting to get home or to work unassailed by cretinous overeducated jinnets :mad:

antoinolachtnai

It's just like the rambler smartcard problem. If it isn't managed, it's going to get an awful lot worse.

Run_to_da_hills

AlekSmart wrote: »

RTDH,I`m afraid all the CCTV in Montrose will not address the problems which are mounting each week along the Stillorgan Road...It will of course be addressed rapidly after the first fatality..

These busses also have a foreward facing cams giving them a frontal / left view of the road ahead. (probably brought on since that accident on the quays) not much good either as the yobs would be wearing hoodies.

AlekSmart

Interestingly enough,RTDH,The "Hoodie" is not prevalent amongst this specific grouping of young gentry.

Most of these fellows are well attired and fragrant.
The core problem lies in the fact that they do not consider their behaviour to be at all unacceptable or anti-social.

The single most impostant issue for the Transport undertakings is the numbers of these people who present during the evenings.
This is not a Public TRANSPORT issue but a Public ORDER one.

To admit to that fact is,however a bitter pill for the Gardai to swallow as it infers that somebody at senior level has taken their eye off the ball.
However,they will soon have to redirect that attention as the Busdriving fraternity are sick to the teeth with being required to play wet-nurse and travelers aide to large numbers of Hooray-Henry`s all hell bent upon having a "Good Time" at the expense of everybody else.