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PSNI rejects British Army version of 1988 shooting

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13567…12

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    #62
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Sand wrote: »
    The soldier involved, if guilty [ no conviction afterall so hes as innocent as Gerry Adams at this point], wont serve a day in jail. Hell be sentenced and then immediately released under the GFA, just like the Provos and the Loyalists.

    Move on Dlop, move on. Do you get the reference now?
    Sand
    I don't remember any news reports about Gerry Adams being in a Republican checkpoint in England and murdering a innocent English lad going to football training,
    not a very good comparison try again!

    And can anyone name a brit soldier who went to jail for murdering Irish people during the troubles.


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    #63
    madden1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭madden1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I can't see that going the distance to be honest. I'm not sure people want it out in the open exactly what he was up to.
    Re Captain Niriac
    Wonder why,
    him being a hero and awarded the George Cross and all,


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    #64
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    TOMASJ wrote: »
    Sand
    I don't remember any news reports about Gerry Adams being in a Republican checkpoint in England and murdering a innocent English lad going to football training,
    not a very good comparison try again!

    And can anyone name a brit soldier who went to jail for murdering Irish people during the troubles.

    Dear sweet Gerry, won't someone think of the poor chaps feelings.:rolleyes:

    madden1 wrote: »
    Re Captain Niriac
    Wonder why,
    him being a hero and awarded the George Cross and all,

    this has been done to death a million times.


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    #65
    conceited
    Closed Accounts Posts: 891 ✭✭✭conceited


    Nuke england and all will be forgiven !


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    #66
    madden1
    Closed Accounts Posts: 39 ✭madden1


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Dear sweet Gerry, won't someone think of the poor chaps feelings.:rolleyes:
    Very dismissive answer to a genuine reply to a thread about a brit solder murdering a Irish person


    this has been done to death a million times.
    But has it got through yet, or does it need to be repeated until it sinks into the heads of those who only want to believe that there was only one side doing all the killing.


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    #67
    2-D Man
    Closed Accounts Posts: 48 ✭2-D Man


    The poor lad was shot dead in cold blood.

    That soldier should be charged with murder


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    #68
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Hang on Fred, you can't get away with this.

    Under the GFA sectarian murderers from both sides were forgiven. Dirty, nasty and all as that was.

    However, under the propaganda we're receiving the British Army was not on a "side". They were the impartial bringers of law and order. Apparently winning hearts and minds that they used to good effect in Basra and all that sh1te.

    The victim was not a terrorist. Under British law he was not an "Irishman", he was British.

    He was a British citizen going about his daily business.

    When not intending to shoot a person military personnel are obliged to follow rules as regards handling their weapon. Breech is clear. Weapon is not cocked. Weapon is not aimed at anybody. Basic rules the world over. To kill this guy the soldier would have had to

    Load weapon.

    Cock weapon.

    Aim weapon.

    Fire weapon.

    Each one a deliberate act. No error involved. If at any stage one of these steps had not been followed no death would have occurred.

    Deliberate murder plain and simple.

    When can we expect to see charges?


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    #69
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    dlofnep wrote: »
    Soldier murders civilian. Dlofnep moves in and addresses the issue...
    ...and labels anyone who disagrees with an element of his argument as an apologist for the British army.


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    #70
    Sand
    Registered Users Posts: 12,588 ✭✭✭✭Sand


    There you go again. Unable to discuss the issue at hand, and once again diverting it . You're as predictable as Irish weather - Cold and morbid.

    Keep up your nonsense. I will continue to ensure that the British military are justifiably criticised for their blatant disregards for basic human rights. You can keep trying to drag this off-topic, but I'm not going to jump in your hole.

    You won't be doing any condemning, because you're unable to take any sort of criticism for your beloved British army onboard. I would have no qualms whatsoever condemning any attacks made by Republican groups which resulted in the loss of civilian life. Can you say the same? No. Because every ounce of criticism ever directed at the British system is always deflected by you back towards Republican groups in an attempt to avoid the issue at hand. Are you going to condemn this British soldier for his blatant calculated and cold murder of an civilian or are you going to pitter-patter around the issue for another 4 pages?

    I repeat once more. This man was blatantly murdered by a member of the British military, which was quickly covered up - and there should be justifiably a full and thorough enquiry into it.

    Irony Free Zone in full effect! Provos will fight the power, uncover the truth, no murder will go brushed under the carpet, every killer will have to account for their crimes....So what was Gerry doing all those years ago Dlop? Oh right, I forgot, its time to move on suddenly.

    All this holier than thou crusading from the Provos is pathetic. Do you honestly grasp how stupid it sounds when supporters of the worst terrorist groups this island has ever endured, now sitting in government, start harping on about truth and justice when criticising other "tribes" whilst claiming people need to move on when the same standard is applied to their leadership?


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    #71
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    I see Sand is still avoiding the issue and is unable to condemn the British soldier's murder of a civilian.
    Sand wrote: »
    Do you honestly grasp how stupid it sounds when supporters of the worst terrorist groups this island has ever endured, now sitting in government, start harping on about truth and justice when criticising other "tribes" whilst claiming people need to move on when the same standard is applied to their leadership?

    Since when did I support the British army?


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    #72
    dlofnep
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,759 ✭✭✭✭dlofnep


    djpbarry wrote: »
    ...and labels anyone who disagrees with an element of his argument as an apologist for the British army.

    There is no element of an argument. Only documented facts. A British soldier shot a civilian and claimed it was an accident. It was then covered up by the said soldier and co. Nice try. :rolleyes:


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    #73
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    madden1 wrote: »
    Very dismissive answer to a genuine reply to a thread about a brit solder murdering a Irish person

    glad you noticed.


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    #74
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    dresden8 wrote: »
    Hang on Fred, you can't get away with this.

    Under the GFA sectarian murderers from both sides were forgiven. Dirty, nasty and all as that was.

    However, under the propaganda we're receiving the British Army was not on a "side". They were the impartial bringers of law and order. Apparently winning hearts and minds that they used to good effect in Basra and all that sh1te.

    The victim was not a terrorist. Under British law he was not an "Irishman", he was British.

    He was a British citizen going about his daily business.

    When not intending to shoot a person military personnel are obliged to follow rules as regards handling their weapon. Breech is clear. Weapon is not cocked. Weapon is not aimed at anybody. Basic rules the world over. To kill this guy the soldier would have had to

    Load weapon.

    Cock weapon.

    Aim weapon.

    Fire weapon.

    Each one a deliberate act. No error involved. If at any stage one of these steps had not been followed no death would have occurred.

    Deliberate murder plain and simple.

    When can we expect to see charges?

    no, under the GFA all murders were forgiven were they not? otherwise how come the people who murdered innocent people in England and Ireland are being let out?

    Dessie O'Hare is out walking the streets somewhere despite hacking off the fingers of a dentist from dublin, who's only apparant crime it seems is to have come from a family with enough money to pay a ransom. How is this sectarian? None of his other crimes are being investigated because they were pre GFA.

    with the incredibly difficult you have to described to discharge a weapon, its no wonder the IRA managed to kill so many British soldiers. the IRA would be on them and opening fire while the brits were busy loading their weapons.


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    #75
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    with the incredibly difficult you have to described to discharge a weapon, its no wonder the IRA managed to kill so many British soldiers. the IRA would be on them and opening fire while the brits were busy loading their weapons.

    Whats that got to do with a British Army officer opening fire on an innocent civilian? As dlofnep has outlined why do people (such as yourself and others here) have such great difficulty discussing the substantive issue of this thread? Must everything be derailed with whataboutery?


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    #76
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Whats that got to do with a British Army officer opening fire on an innocent civilian? As dlofnep has outlined why do people (such as yourself and others here) have such great difficulty discussing the substantive issue of this thread? Must everything be derailed with whataboutery?

    it was a comment on the content of the post, not the subject of the thread.

    I think there's a phrase about Pots and Kettles that spring to mind.


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    #77
    Erin Go Brath
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,708 ✭✭✭Erin Go Brath


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    it was a comment on the content of the post, not the subject of the thread.

    I think there's a phrase about Pots and Kettles that spring to mind.

    Its a thread about about the murder and subsequent coverup of said murder of Aidan McAnespie. It isn't a Brit Army v IRA, loyalist v IRA, or anyone else v IRA thread. Some people aren't too comfortable with the actions, integrity, and professionalism of the so-called most professional army in the world it would appear!


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    #78
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    no, under the GFA all murders were forgiven were they not?

    Well, at least we agree the British Army is in the business of murder.


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    #79
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    Its a thread about about the murder and subsequent coverup of said murder of Aidan McAnespie. It isn't a Brit Army v IRA, loyalist v IRA, or anyone else v IRA thread. Some people aren't too comfortable with the actions, integrity, and professionalism of the so-called most professional army in the world it would appear!

    that's right, its not. It is easy to get the impression that the republicans around here are more interested in a witch hunt than they are any form of closure/justice for the McAnespie family.

    My friend's father, who i mentioned in another post told us once that on his first tour, one of the older corporals got a guy, who they claimed was a known player, outside a pub, put a gun to his head and told him that if anything happened to one of his lads, he would kill him whether it was him or not. Professional? no of course not, legal, definately not, understandable under the circumstances at the time? yes, I believe it is. These are soldiers, not policemen, diplomats of nurse maids.


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    #80
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    My friend's father, who i mentioned in another post told us once that on his first tour, one of the older corporals got a guy, who they claimed was a known player, outside a pub, put a gun to his head and told him that if anything happened to one of his lads, he would kill him whether it was him or not. Professional? no of course not, legal, definately not, understandable under the circumstances at the time? yes, I believe it is. These are soldiers, not policemen, diplomats of nurse maids.
    Neither are they judge, jury and executioners. Oh wait, my mistake, carry on.


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    #81
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Hagar wrote: »
    Neither are they judge, jury and executioners. Oh wait, my mistake, carry on.

    I thought it was a war? who is Judge and jury in a war, especially when the enemy hide behind civilians and wear civilian clothing?


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    #82
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    It was never legally a war Fred. Otherwise the combatants would have been accorded POW status and treated as such. The soldiers were supposed to be an aid to the civil power not executioners.


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    #83
    dresden8
    Registered Users Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I thought it was a war? who is Judge and jury in a war, especially when the enemy hide behind civilians and wear civilian clothing?

    So shoot the civilians and there's no-one to hide behind.

    Good plan. Is that what they do in Iraq and Afghanistan?


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    #84
    TOMASJ
    Registered Users Posts: 656 ✭✭✭TOMASJ


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    I thought it was a war? who is Judge and jury in a war, especially when the enemy hide behind civilians and wear civilian clothing?
    Fred
    when you say hiding behind civilians and wearing civilian clothing?
    Could I remind you that almost all brit barracks based in the occupied six were placed beside or in the grounds of schools in almost every town in the six county's.
    so much for hiding behind civilians.


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    #85
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Hagar wrote: »
    It was never legally a war Fred. Otherwise the combatants would have been accorded POW status and treated as such. The soldiers were supposed to be an aid to the civil power not executioners.

    That's an entirely new subject. The definition of whether or not it was a war is another that seems to change depending on the arguement.

    Armies should not be used in these circumstances, but what choice was there? bearing in mind the level of collusion between the loyalists and the RUC, without the British army would any loyalist murderers have been put away?
    dresden8 wrote: »
    So shoot the civilians and there's no-one to hide behind.

    Good plan. Is that what they do in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    that's useful to this discussion, why don't you take a trip to either of those places and find out.
    TOMASJ wrote: »
    Fred
    when you say hiding behind civilians and wearing civilian clothing?
    Could I remind you that almost all brit barracks based in the occupied six were placed beside or in the grounds of schools in almost every town in the six county's.
    so much for hiding behind civilians.

    really, that's interesting. can you provide me a map showing this.


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    #86
    djpbarry
    Registered Users Posts: 13,104 ✭✭✭✭djpbarry


    dlofnep wrote: »
    There is no element of an argument. Only documented facts.
    You have stated that the soldier in question is guilty of the murder of Aidan McAnespie. That is your opinion (and mine too, for the record), not fact.
    Erin Go Brath wrote: »
    As dlofnep has outlined why do people (such as yourself and others here) have such great difficulty discussing the substantive issue of this thread?
    The alleged murder is being discussed, but it must be discussed in a political context, which includes the implications of the GFA.
    Hagar wrote: »
    It was never legally a war Fred.
    Many Republicans claim it was (when it suits their argument).


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    #87
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    That's an entirely new subject.
    It was you who raised the war subject just a couple of posts ago, but if it's not working for you we can drop it.
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    Armies should not be used in these circumstances, but what choice was there? bearing in mind the level of collusion between the loyalists and the RUC, without the British army would any loyalist murderers have been put away?
    Remove the RUC and replace them with British Constabulary perhaps?
    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    really, that's interesting. can you provide me a map showing this.
    Who would publish maps like that? They also set up bases in or near GAA grounds.


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    #88
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Hagar wrote: »
    It was you who raised the war subject just a couple of posts ago, but if it's not working for you we can drop it.

    that was in respo....yeah. lets drop it.
    Hagar wrote: »
    Remove the RUC and replace them with British Constabulary perhaps? Who would publish maps like that? They also set up bases in or near GAA grounds.

    i suppose the Gardai would have been an alternative, then they could have just turned a blind eye to the whole thing rather than just what went on south of the border.

    the army set up bases on top of tower blocks, in fields and in police stations. they set up bases all over the place.


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    #89
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    It was also a regular laugh to land a helicopter in the GAA pitches adjoining their bases while matches where in progress.


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    #90
    Fratton Fred
    Closed Accounts Posts: 26,567 ✭✭✭✭Fratton Fred


    Hagar wrote: »
    It was also a regular laugh to land a helicopter in the GAA pitches adjoining their bases while matches where in progress.

    bastards. :rolleyes:


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    #91
    Hagar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 16,793 ✭✭✭✭Hagar


    Fratton Fred wrote: »
    bastards. :rolleyes:
    QFT :D


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