Are you gonna march on wednesday 22nd October?

Boston

Mark200 wrote: »

I was just thinking....isn't the reason why the universities want fees brought back is so they can charge more? Under the free fees scheme they aren't allowed to charge above what they are charging because the Government is paying for it. So in fact, it may well be more than €5000 odd written on our bill if this is brought back

I've no idea where this 5000k figure came from. All you have to do is look at the fees charged to EU and Non Eu students to see that it doesn't hold water.

Brian

Fuck, it's costing Tak 15k a year to do HistPol..

Mark200

Boston wrote: »

I've no idea where this 5000k figure came from. All you have to do is look at the fees charged to EU and Non Eu students to see that it doesn't hold water.

I don't see where this "€5,000,000 figure" came from either :rolleyes:


I just mentioned €5000 because that is what everyone in this topic has been talking about that they'd have to pay.

Computer Science, on that list, would cost €6,732. Does that include registration fee? (Honest question there btw, I don't know)

Boston

I read it on the internet.

Mark200

Boston wrote: »

I read it on the internet.

Excuse me sir, source police *takes out badge*

Please produce proof of this claim or this comment will be deemed invalid

Thank you

Boston

Mark200 wrote: »

Excuse me sir, source police *takes out badge*

Please produce proof of this claim or this comment will be deemed invalid

Thank you

Here you go.

Mark200

Boston wrote: »

Here you go.

I'm sorry sir. There is no mention of "5000k" on the page that you provided. So therefore I must go right ahead and assume you made it up.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Brian

Come now, we all know Boston's dielectric.

Boston

Mark200 wrote: »

I'm sorry sir. There is no mention of "5000k" on the page that you provided. So therefore I must go right ahead and assume you made it up.

Sorry for any inconvenience.

Its right there in the post, six words in.

Baza210 wrote: »

Come now, we all know Boston's dielectric.

I'd make a good dielectric./

Mark200

Boston wrote: »

Its right there in the post, six words in.

Don't really see how referring to your own post in which you made the claim is giving a source but oh well

ciaranajl

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k - especially students who can afford to go "out on the piss" with Daddy's money several times a week. Don't get me wrong, I live in Foxrock, and have some savings in the bank, and go out a few times a week, and I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to pay for my education, at least in part.

It INFURIATES me when, in UCD, studen union members come into lectures to make screaming announcements about "marching!" and how "we can't accept this!" Hmm, how does almost every other country - many of which are far less wealthy than Ireland - manage to accept it and have, simulaneously, a stable economy?

Yes, education is fantastic for our economy - a "knowledge-based economy" - but introducing higher fees will not counteract this in any way. This is soo absurd. I hope the streets are empty.

- a very indignant fresher!

PurpleFistMixer

ciaranajl wrote: »

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k

Since when is that the bottom line? Since when is that even true?

Mark200

ciaranajl wrote: »

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k - especially students who can afford to go "out on the piss" with Daddy's money several times a week. Don't get me wrong, I live in Foxrock, and have some savings in the bank, and go out a few times a week, and I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to pay for my education, at least in part.

What a ridiculous claim to make. Some people really depend on the free fees to get an education. Not every student goes "out on the piss" several times a week. I don't.
And the fees from €1.5-3k....Boston already posted a link showing that fees would be higher than that, and dependant on the course. My course would be over €6000.

I currently pay for my social life and whatever myself, the only money I'm receiving from my parents is from my dad....where he pays for some (but not all) of my ridiculously expensive car insurance.
I can afford to pay for everything else from a summer job last summer, but I wouldn't be able to afford fees.
I'm confident if they came in that my parents would cover it, but to suggest that every student in college is that fortunate is insanity.

ciaranajl

Three words: part - time - job.

Get one. You* can't use the 'unemployment rate is too high' excuse just yet.

And yes 6k is a lot, but people are even complaining about potentially having to pay up to 3k.

*The general complaining, spoiled student population

Mark200

ciaranajl wrote: »

Three words: part - time - job.

Get one. You* can't use the 'unemployment rate is too high' excuse just yet.

And yes 6k is a lot, but people are even complaining about potentially having to pay up to 3k.

*The general complaining, spoiled student population

I have one, it's a continuation from my summer job. I work 9 - 5 every Saturday.

That gives me €70 something a week........I really don't think that'll be enough


Why should someone work more hours and inevitably be tired when going into college (the reason they are even working in the first place)

Boston

ciaranajl wrote: »

Three words: part - time - job.

Get one. You* can't use the 'unemployment rate is too high' excuse just yet.

And yes 6k is a lot, but people are even complaining about potentially having to pay up to 3k.

*The general complaining, spoiled student population

You tell me where an engineer fits in a part time job into a 38 hours a week course? Not counting study. Theres also something called "the cost of living". The courses which would have the highest fees would be the ones with the longest contact hours, making it difficult to fit a part time job in. I worked every summer during college. It just about paid for the cost of living during term time.

Also, you admit yourself it's going to become increasing difficult for people to find part time jobs. Yet you propose it as a solution.

Jonathan

ciaranajl wrote: »

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k - especially students who can afford to go "out on the piss" with Daddy's money several times a week. Don't get me wrong, I live in Foxrock, and have some savings in the bank, and go out a few times a week, and I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to pay for my education, at least in part.

It INFURIATES me when, in UCD, studen union members come into lectures to make screaming announcements about "marching!" and how "we can't accept this!" Hmm, how does almost every other country - many of which are far less wealthy than Ireland - manage to accept it and have, simulaneously, a stable economy?

Yes, education is fantastic for our economy - a "knowledge-based economy" - but introducing higher fees will not counteract this in any way. This is soo absurd. I hope the streets are empty.

- a very indignant fresher!

What course do you study out of interest?

rc28

ciaranajl wrote: »

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k - especially students who can afford to go "out on the piss" with Daddy's money several times a week. Don't get me wrong, I live in Foxrock, and have some savings in the bank, and go out a few times a week, and I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to pay for my education, at least in part.

It INFURIATES me when, in UCD, studen union members come into lectures to make screaming announcements about "marching!" and how "we can't accept this!" Hmm, how does almost every other country - many of which are far less wealthy than Ireland - manage to accept it and have, simulaneously, a stable economy?

Yes, education is fantastic for our economy - a "knowledge-based economy" - but introducing higher fees will not counteract this in any way. This is soo absurd. I hope the streets are empty.

- a very indignant fresher!

I find it both hilarious and sad how detached from reality you are.

Peslo

Lads, I just want to ask you something. Something that was was said at Class Rep Training yesterday.

If we had to pay upwards or 7 or 8,000 euro next year, how many of us will not be in college next year? How many of our friends and classmates just won't be able to go to college anymore?

We all should be going out there and march to support each other!!!

rc28

Peslo wrote: »

Lads, I just want to ask you something. Something that was was said at Class Rep Training yesterday.

If we had to pay upwards or 7 or 8,000 euro next year, how many of us will not be in college next year? How many of our friends and classmates just won't be able to go to college anymore?

We all should be going out there and march to support each other!!!

+1

dan719

Peslo wrote: »

Lads, I just want to ask you something. Something that was was said at Class Rep Training yesterday.

If we had to pay upwards or 7 or 8,000 euro next year, how many of us will not be in college next year? How many of our friends and classmates just won't be able to go to college anymore?

We all should be going out there and march to support each other!!!

And what if that seven or eight thousand was paid back in the form of additional taxation after graduation, i.e a derirative of the UK/Australian model?
The S.U has to realise it can't simply throw the toys out of the pram on this topic, personally although I am not particularly passionate either for or against I feel a loan system would immediately alay many fears of exclusion, i.e the burden is not placed onto parents.
Saying that I am dubious we would see any real increase in quality with the return of fees, with the Gov. simply reducing their own contribution towards third level institutions.

Brian

dan719 wrote: »

Saying that I am dubious we would see any real increase in quality with the return of fees, with the Gov. simply reducing their own contribution towards third level institutions.

And that's really all the Government care about right now.

Peslo

dan719 wrote: »

And what if that seven or eight thousand was paid back in the form of additional taxation after graduation, i.e a derirative of the UK/Australian model?
The S.U has to realise it can't simply throw the toys out of the pram on this topic, personally although I am not particularly passionate either for or against I feel a loan system would immediately alay many fears of exclusion, i.e the burden is not placed onto parents.
Saying that I am dubious we would see any real increase in quality with the return of fees, with the Gov. simply reducing their own contribution towards third level institutions.

No!!! To put it simply - You spend 3 or four years in Uni Expecting to get paid more when you graduate. As a result, Graduates pay, on average, 70% more tax.
The Government does ALREADY make it's money back in the the takings of ten years' worth of earnings. And most grads would be in employment for a FURTHER 25 years after the gov has made it's money back.

The government already benefits tax-wise from the free third-level education.

fin.

Jonathan

Peslo wrote: »

No!!! To put it simply - You spend 3 or four years in Uni Expecting to get paid more when you graduate. As a result, Graduates pay, on average, 70% more tax.
The Government does ALREADY make it's money back in the the takings of ten years' worth of earnings. And most grads would be in employment for a FURTHER 25 years after the gov has made it's money back.

The government already benefits tax-wise from the free third-level education.

fin.

Is this all the ****e the SU has been feeding you?

Brian

I have a simple 3 Step plan for post-graduation.

1. Leave country
2. ?
3. Profit

Jonathan

Baza210 wrote: »

I have a simple 3 Step plan for post-graduation.

1. Leave country
2. ?
3. Profit

After the government paying for your degree??

Brian

Yes?

Jegger

ciaranajl wrote: »

Bottom line is that ANY student can afford to pay college fees ranging from €1.5-3k - especially students who can afford to go "out on the piss" with Daddy's money several times a week. Don't get me wrong, I live in Foxrock, and have some savings in the bank, and go out a few times a week, and I absolutely feel it is my responsibility to pay for my education, at least in part.

It INFURIATES me when, in UCD, studen union members come into lectures to make screaming announcements about "marching!" and how "we can't accept this!" Hmm, how does almost every other country - many of which are far less wealthy than Ireland - manage to accept it and have, simulaneously, a stable economy?

Yes, education is fantastic for our economy - a "knowledge-based economy" - but introducing higher fees will not counteract this in any way. This is soo absurd. I hope the streets are empty.

- a very indignant fresher!

Every student cannot afford to pay up to 3,000 a year, thats total bull crap, i'd love to know where you got this statistic, 100% of college students can afford to pay 3000 a year...right

you probably only feel its your responsibility to pay for your education cos you went to private school up to the point of college and had to pay for that.

almost every other country has fees? again a crazy statement to make, where is the proof of this! Lets say for a minute that ireland is one of the only countries in the world with "free fees", is that a bad thing? "Entry into third-level is generally very high in Ireland, and among young adults (those aged 25 to 34), 41.6% of them have attained third-level degrees - the second highest level in the EU after Cyprus, and substantially ahead of the average of 29.1%"

and for you to even mention a stable economy in this day and age is just unbelievable, what countries are you talking about exactly? usa, uk?? no you can't be that out of the loop.

and yes introducing fees and taking away half of child benefit for children over 18 will contradict the governments plans to create a knowledge based economy, do i really have to explain why? yeah you guess it, people will not be able to afford college. simple as that really and no grant system will ever be enough, grant systems work for the really poor, the really rich can afford the fees and average Joe, what happens to him??

EGaffney

jmccrohan wrote: »

After the government paying for your degree??

Em, yes. This is yet another huge fallacy with the "tax take makes up for student subsidies" argument.

1. You can't just claim that ALL THE TAX EVAR!!! is due to third level education. Any decent economic analysis would only include the added returns to education. See here for an example: http://media.economist.com/images/20080920/CBR058.gif
2. The best students, i.e. those who could theoretically make a lot of money, will leave Ireland and take all that potential tax income with them.
3. In a recession, the demand for education rises. That's why CAO points went up this year. So introducing more rational student subsidies will have an even lesser effect on participation than it would otherwise.

There are of course other reasons, but three is a nice number.

Full student subsidies make no sense in a recession in one of the most pro-education countries in the world.

Jonathan

EGaffney wrote: »

3. In a recession, the demand for education rises. That's why CAO points went up this year. So introducing more rational student subsidies will have an even lesser effect on participation than it would otherwise.

Points have always been rising (even through out the good times)..

Kids are getting smarter and grinds schools are artificially inflating the cao points.