Are you gonna march on wednesday 22nd October?

Peleus

EGaffney wrote: »

Em, yes. This is yet another huge fallacy with the "tax take makes up for student subsidies" argument.

3. In a recession, the demand for education rises. That's why CAO points went up this year. So introducing more rational student subsidies will have an even lesser effect on participation than it would otherwise.

Actually all college places, or the vast majority of them, were assigned well before anyone even mentioned the word recession. so how can a recession have an affect on 2008's CAO points?

Peslo

Going Forward wrote: »

Not fin. That finger in the ears mentality of "no fees - EVER" is going to be what'll screw the current student population hand over foot.

How so?

Peleus

dan719 wrote: »

And what if that seven or eight thousand was paid back in the form of additional taxation after graduation, i.e a derirative of the UK/Australian model?
The S.U has to realise it can't simply throw the toys out of the pram on this topic, personally although I am not particularly passionate either for or against I feel a loan system would immediately alay many fears of exclusion, i.e the burden is not placed onto parents.
Saying that I am dubious we would see any real increase in quality with the return of fees, with the Gov. simply reducing their own contribution towards third level institutions.

How about, in stead of a loan system, we set up a tab system whereby we pay the govenment for our education when we have a career. That way we can cut out the middleman ie: the bank.
If fees were reindroduced that would be the way i'd want to pay. But i really hope they aren't.

Crash

Peslo wrote:

How so?

Cus maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but some time within the forseeable future, fees are going to return. and unless the student body at such a time enters into proper talks with the government on the issue, its going to be to the detriment of students and their education. Simple as.

Peslo

Going Forward wrote: »

Cus maybe not this year, maybe not next year, but some time within the forseeable future, fees are going to return. and unless the student body at such a time enters into proper talks with the government on the issue, its going to be to the detriment of students and their education. Simple as.

Haven't exactly seen the government reaching out and asking for suggestions TBH. And not just from The USI, I'm talking about opposition parties too.

Crash

Thats not, and never will be, an excuse for being reactive as opposed to proactive. USI, by the way, is a token body that is ineffective to the extreme - I wish there was a student representative body that wasn't as essentially flawed as USI, but c'est la vie.

manicmonoliths

Peslo wrote: »

Haven't exactly seen the government reaching out and asking for suggestions TBH. And not just from The USI, I'm talking about opposition parties too.

That's because at the moment USI refuses to negotiate on fees at all. The current policy is 'no fees under any circumstances'

If the Gov. is dead set on reintroducing fees, USI will not be able to negotiate a good deal from the Gov, so USI could actually be doing more harm then good.

Peslo

manicmonoliths wrote: »

That's because at the moment USI refuses to negotiate on fees at all. The current policy is 'no fees under any circumstances'

If the Gov. is dead set on reintroducing fees, USI will not be able to negotiate a good deal from the Gov, so USI could actually be doing more harm then good.

True, but I'm pretty sure that the USI or anybody campaigning for "No Fees" should be campaigning for the introduction of fees if the wanted to negotiate.

Crash

Well you can't specifically say that its USI's fault per se, they're following the mandate set by the member unions. Unfortunately, such a mandate is so closely binding on what they can/cannot do that essentially its stuck in the mud.

EGaffney

Boston wrote: »

Thats not true at all at all. Few people, even those just graduated, have the ability to just cut all ties and travel the world looking for the highest paying job. I'd earn more in the UK as I'd get almost the same salary but in sterling. I'd also earn more by working for a financial consultancy company then I would working as an engineer.

Which of the following statements is more likely to be true:
1) The best students leave for abroad; or
2) Mediocre students leave for abroad?

Think about all the graduates who have been recruited to the investment banks in the City - best, or mediocre? All those doing postgraduate study in the United States - best, or mediocre?

Lots of people leave the country after graduating. Those who leave are likely to be the best.

EGaffney

Peleus wrote: »

Actually all college places, or the vast majority of them, were assigned well before anyone even mentioned the word recession. so how can a recession have an affect on 2008's CAO points?

Um. Because everyone has been predicting a coming downturn since, at latest, the Northern Rock collapse in mid-2007?

Boston

I think there are many factors and someones academic ability is just one.

Peleus

EGaffney wrote: »

Um. Because everyone has been predicting a coming downturn since, at latest, the Northern Rock collapse in mid-2007?

I as a student never heard anything about a predicted rescession and im sure very few other students did.

Jonathan

Peleus wrote: »

I as a student never heard anything about a predicted rescession and im sure very few other students did.

In fairness I had but I doubt any one could have predicted the extent of it.

PurpleFistMixer

Peleus wrote: »

I as a student never heard anything about a predicted rescession and im sure very few other students did.

I actually spent secondary school being told we were lucky to be entering the working world at such a strong time in the economy. Hm...

Jonathan

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

I actually spent secondary school being told we were lucky to be entering the working world at such a strong time in the economy. Hm...

Now is a great time to be in college.

You wont have to deal with the real world until 2012, by which time the storm will have passed.

shay_562

jmccrohan wrote:

Now is a great time to be in college.

You wont have to deal with the real world until 2012, by which time the storm will have passed.

Well, yeah, I mean that's...hang on.

*Looks at "TCD '09" student card*

*Looks at outside world*

...ah crap. You know those mornings when you wake up and there's, like, a force 8 wind blowing outside and it's dark and rainy and you just say "Fcuk it", roll over and go back to sleep for a few hours? That's kinda how looking at graduate recruitment prospects feels right now. Masters, anyone?

EGaffney

shay_562 wrote: »

Masters, anyone?

/me raises hand

/me is glad he resisted the temptations of JP Morgan

shay_562

shay_562 wrote: »

...ah crap. You know those mornings when you wake up and there's, like, a force 8 wind blowing outside and it's dark and rainy and you just say "Fcuk it", roll over and go back to sleep for a few hours? That's kinda how looking at graduate recruitment prospects feels right now. Masters, anyone?

There is a storm blowing outside now.. and I have to get up and go to courses for my masters...

Peleus

i have a lecture when this march is on. they should really stop lectures during the march because i want to go but i don't want to miss a good maths class.

Crash

ah yes, they should stop teaching you stuff, so you can march about your education

Mark200

I have a tutorial during it, and the marks go towards my end of year score. Oh well

I haven't decided whether to go yet

Get your class rep to ask if the tutorial can be cancelled/delayed/given out by e-mail and so you've to hand it back in by the end of the week.

Mark200

Myth wrote: »

Get your class rep to ask if the tutorial can be cancelled/delayed/given out by e-mail and so you've to hand it back in by the end of the week.

Nah someone told Coghlan today that there was a protest on at that time, and he just said "your academic work is separate to everything else, if you choose to go to the protest that's fair enough...you just won't be getting any marks in the tutorial"

Randomness

Wednesday will be D-Day in Dublin. Looks like the OAPs are descending on the capital @ 12 to march about the medical cards. I think they should stick around and join the fees ones aswell. Likewise I would encourage anyone around at 12 to take a trip up to Leinster House to help bring down the average age of the demonstration and show the Government that their precious young voters care about whether their grandparents etc. get to have free medical care.

I've been told all this was on Joe Duffy today and that they are coming in planes, trains and automobiles. Insomnia are even giving them free coffee!! Taxi drivers are giving them lifts into town!

Anywho what's a good Wednesday without a demonstration / march! Forget the 0.05%-1% for a tutorial. Let the bullies up the road know that we're here, we care and by the way ... we vote.

Peslo

Myth wrote: »

Get your class rep to ask if the tutorial can be cancelled/delayed/given out by e-mail and so you've to hand it back in by the end of the week.

I have. I sent him an email about it during lunchtime(which obviously wasn't read). But during class he announced that he will not be in on wednesday... which was great. Until he said that he has moved the tutorial from thursday to wednesday.
And we have another problem with these tutorials that they appear to be "mini exams", the marks of which contribute to the end of year result.

A tough first day as rep :rolleyes:

EGaffney

Hah, you think the old people actually care about student subsidies?

We simply have two separate groups defending their separate economic interests in state spending.

Randomness

EGaffney wrote: »

Hah, you think the old people actually care about student subsidies?

That's a bit of a generalization no?

I'm sure plenty of old people care about student subsides in the same way that I and others I know care about the medical card situation.

Crash

peslo wrote:

I have. I sent him an email about it during lunchtime(which obviously wasn't read). But during class he announced that he will not be in on wednesday... which was great. Until he said that he has moved the tutorial from thursday to wednesday.
And we have another problem with these tutorials that they appear to be "mini exams", the marks of which contribute to the end of year result.

A tough first day as rep

OMFG thats the biggest problem ever - tutorials being counted towards your academic mark. Its like they're trying to, I dunno, continuously assess you or something sick like that.

I'd talk to the course director tbh.

Oh, on a less sarcastic note, dont you have marked tutorials in 1ba3 as well? (or 1ba2 - whichevers is Vinnies). Accept it, its standard.

Peslo

Going Forward wrote: »

OMFG thats the biggest problem ever - tutorials being counted towards your academic mark. Its like they're trying to, I dunno, continuously assess you or something sick like that.

I'd talk to the course director tbh.

Oh, on a less sarcastic note, dont you have marked tutorials in 1ba3 as well? (or 1ba2 - whichevers is Vinnies). Accept it, its standard.

EXCUSE YOU!! But you have no idea what this situation is in the class. I'm not stupid and neither is anyone else in the class. So please, unless you know what I'm talking about, keep your smart-ass comments to yourself.

EGaffney

Randomness wrote: »

That's a bit of a generalization no?

Of course it is. Welcome to the real world. But don't go about thinking old people believe students are anything but layabouts.

Jonathan

Peslo wrote: »

So please, unless you know what I'm talking about, keep your smart-ass comments to yourself.

Silly boy......

Peslo

Boy??!! The bloody cheek of you!

Peslo

Peslo wrote: »

EXCUSE YOU!! But you have no idea what this situation is in the class. I'm not stupid and neither is anyone else in the class. So please, unless you know what I'm talking about, keep your smart-ass comments to yourself.

Um, he has a degree in that course you're doing.

PurpleFistMixer

To get back to the topic and away from Peslo and the never-ending vendetta the world has against him...
Realistically speaking, in the event of a large crowd showing up at this protest... would the government even listen?

mathew

Peslo wrote: »

Boy??!! The bloody cheek of you!

LOL

mathew

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

To get back to the topic and away from Peslo and the never-ending vendetta the world has against him...
Realistically speaking, in the event of a large crowd showing up at this protest... would the government even listen?

Probably not.. Id say the most Brian will do is look out of the window to see what the noise is

Mark200

Going Forward wrote: »

OMFG thats the biggest problem ever - tutorials being counted towards your academic mark. Its like they're trying to, I dunno, continuously assess you or something sick like that.

I'd talk to the course director tbh.

Oh, on a less sarcastic note, dont you have marked tutorials in 1ba3 as well? (or 1ba2 - whichevers is Vinnies). Accept it, its standard.

We have tutorials in Vinny's programming thing, and 1BA3...Introduction to computing.

In both, we were told that we would get full marks for just attending the tutorials and attempting the questions given. This is different from Coghlan's tutorials, where we don't even get our work back because they are fully marked and how we do in the questions go towards our end result. A system which is fair enough, except for the fact that we weren't told that Coghlan's tutorials would be any different to our other tutorials until today...(4 days after our first 1BA4 tutorial)

PurpleFistMixer wrote: »

To get back to the topic and away from Peslo and the never-ending vendetta the world has against him...
Realistically speaking, in the event of a large crowd showing up at this protest... would the government even listen?

They mightn't 'listen' but I'm sure they'll at least notice, which may have an effect. More chance of it working than doing nothing at all.

Brian

mathew wrote: »

Probably not.. Id say the most Brian will do is look out of the window to see what the noise is

Not even, if I have my sound isolating headphones in.

Seriously, I thought you meant me for a second.

Peslo

Myth wrote: »

Um, he has a degree in that course you're doing.

That's all well and good, but unless he's actually in my class, and knows specifically what I'm talking about, then I dont see how he can talk to me like that. Any help or advice is appreciated. Being plain mean isn't.

Pet

I'm actually starting to think Peslo is a very effective and subtly-played troll. Like, srsly, f'realz, y'all.

EGaffney

Sadly for undergraduates, they already don't vote for Fianna Fáil, unlike old people. So the government couldn't give a damn about your concerns. And it's been that way for quite a while, certainly since I began in third level.

Crash

Mark200 wrote: »

We have tutorials in Vinny's programming thing, and 1BA3...Introduction to computing.

In both, we were told that we would get full marks for just attending the tutorials and attempting the questions given. This is different from Coghlan's tutorials, where we don't even get our work back because they are fully marked and how we do in the questions go towards our end result. A system which is fair enough, except for the fact that we weren't told that Coghlan's tutorials would be any different to our other tutorials until today...(4 days after our first 1BA4 tutorial)



They mightn't 'listen' but I'm sure they'll at least notice, which may have an effect. More chance of it working than doing nothing at all.

...you were told that you'd recieve full marks in Vinnys for showing up and attempting? that has never worked like that previously - thats mightily odd. Was it Vinny himself who informed you on this?

The not informing you until after the first tutorial is typical Coghlan, and definitely should result in the first tutorial being struck off (Though, possibly hold off until the marks come back if you can - if everyone recieves essentially full marks its a nice easy section of your coursework which you've just gained marks for, and yee should keep mute).

I was gonna write a long reply to peslo, but I'm not even gonna bother

On the topic of the march - wednesdays weather doesnt look great, how do people think that'll affect numbers?

Pet

Pet wrote: »

I'm actually starting to think Peslo is a very effective and subtly-played troll. Like, srsly, f'realz, y'all.

You, and other people

peaderfi

ciaranajl wrote: »

Three words: part - time - job.

Get one. You* can't use the 'unemployment rate is too high' excuse just yet.

And yes 6k is a lot, but people are even complaining about potentially having to pay up to 3k.

*The general complaining, spoiled student population

part-time-job meet science/engineering/medicine/veterinary degree

all of the above degrees are degrees that have a high number of hours timetabled in college and demand many hours on top of that of extra study.

I had a 7k loan after failing a year in college, during that year i had to bust my balls off to work at a part-time job to pay for the loan i got out to repeat the year...end result: i didn't have enough time to study as i was working when i wasn't attending my lectures to pay for the loan. This lead to further debt (which i am only just getting out of now 2.5 years after i had to take out the original loan) and more repeats.

This is in the "free-fees" system. My parents make enough money to live on and support myself and my 2 siblings (one of whom is a lifelong dependant). They do not have any extra money to pay for fees and if fees are reintroduced in the next couple of years my younger brother will not be going to college as my parents "earn too much" according to the government means-test for grants.

Ireland has a service economy. We rely on our workforce to be highly educated.

If fees are introduced a large number of "middle-class" workers will be unable to afford to send their children to college. This will lead to less people being available to work in the areas of the economy where they are needed, leading to higher rates of unemployment.

Peslo

Going Forward wrote: »

...you were told that you'd recieve full marks in Vinnys for showing up and attempting? that has never worked like that previously - thats mightily odd. Was it Vinny himself who informed you on this?

The not informing you until after the first tutorial is typical Coghlan, and definitely should result in the first tutorial being struck off (Though, possibly hold off until the marks come back if you can - if everyone recieves essentially full marks its a nice easy section of your coursework which you've just gained marks for, and yee should keep mute).

The situation is this:
Vinny and Jonathon Dukes told us that we get full marks for showing up at labs and tutorials and making an attempt! The tutorial work is then marked and we are given feedback AND we were given our marked work back!
In Coghlan's class, on the other hand, he quite clearly said today, we will not be getting our work back because it is getting marked towards our end of year results. Which nobody knew about, hence the outburst of a certain student in class today...

Kurtosis

Going Forward wrote: »

On the topic of the march - wednesdays weather doesnt look great, how do people think that'll affect numbers?

I'd say it will turn many people off going to the march. I think a lot (if not a majority) of the people who were going to attend it were just seeing it as a bit of a laugh and an excuse to miss a few lectures (the irony...) as opposed to actually aiming to achieve something. For this group, the slightest inconvenience will mean ditching the march in favour of a coffee in Starbucks.

Mark200

Yeah I think the weather will have a huge impact. I think I'd rather sit in a warm-ish lecture theatre or whatever instead of walking through town in the rain .

Kurtosis

Randomness wrote: »

Wednesday will be D-Day in Dublin. Looks like the OAPs are descending on the capital @ 12 to march about the medical cards. I think they should stick around and join the fees ones aswell. Likewise I would encourage anyone around at 12 to take a trip up to Leinster House to help bring down the average age of the demonstration and show the Government that their precious young voters care about whether their grandparents etc. get to have free medical care.

I've been told all this was on Joe Duffy today and that they are coming in planes, trains and automobiles. Insomnia are even giving them free coffee!! Taxi drivers are giving them lifts into town!

Anywho what's a good Wednesday without a demonstration / march! Forget the 0.05%-1% for a tutorial. Let the bullies up the road know that we're here, we care and by the way ... we vote.

I'd much rather see a decent turnout for the medical card protest than the fees march. Surely we'd be better off lending our voices to the elderly, seeing as the medical card crisis is a rather pressing issue, as opposed to protesting against the introduction of fees which may or may not even happen.

Peleus

Mark200 wrote: »

Yeah I think the weather will have a huge impact. I think I'd rather sit in a warm-ish lecture theatre or whatever instead of walking through town in the rain .

check it out, i made a graph.