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Carzone.ie: breaching Irish law?

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2

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    #32
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    tin-foil-hat wearing conspiracy theorists that can't read... as you already pointed out the solution.


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    #33
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    AudiChris wrote: »
    OP, how hard did you really try to investigate this query before you posted here??


    I just contacted Carzone via telephone (during lunchtime, no less). It was answered by a chap called David in 3 or 4 rings, he was able to confirm over the phone that anyone with an ad that was put up before the pricing change will remain under their original agreement. All they need to do is contact Carzone and they'll have their account/ad amended to the original terms and conditions.

    Please phone them at 01 449 0650 and put this thread out of its misery...


    I called and was told the same thing last week, posted as much here. I've tried to call them on five separate occasions today, and left three messages. Yesterday I called three times, left two messages- still no response. Given that they've removed the free renewal button from their website, the only way to renew FOC now is to phone them. And they're not proving easy to get on the phone. You've always seemed like a very reasonable guy to me, AudiChris, I don't know why you're finding it so difficult to get your head around this?:)


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    #34
    Run_to_da_hills
    Closed Accounts Posts: 20,009 ✭✭✭✭Run_to_da_hills


    I can under stand Carzones concern over repeated adds, You could get some smart dealer using the one add incert to flog off a fleet of the same model of car.


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    #35
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    I have my head around it, as far as I can tell anyway.

    I'm more concerned with the "Carzone is ripping us off with this revision of terms and I'm calling the ombudsman about it" sentiment.
    We thought that Carzone were unfairly increasing their charges to existing customers without any negotiation.
    But then again you, among others, have already said in other threads that Carzone haven't revised the terms for ads created under the old terms. I've confirmed this by phone today and also mentioned it in post 21 of this thread, prior to phone confirmation.

    Seems like they've been pretty fair in the way they've implemented these increased charges and as I said above, I hope the end user gets an improved service in return for the increased rates (i.e. it shouldn't be a mere revenue generation measure).

    I have issue with:
    a) someone trying to sell their car for over a year insisting that their car should be listed for free into infinity. Yes it's possible, but is there any point?
    b) the assertion that Carzone have changed the t&c's on the pre-April ads when they clearly haven't.
    c) the assertion that Autotrader is using some mind control techniques to divert unsuspecting shoppers to their local Autotrader website and maybe it should be reported to ComReg.

    Phew... good to get that off my chest :D


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    #36
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    AudiChris wrote: »
    I have my head around it, as far as I can tell anyway.

    I'm more concerned with the "Carzone is ripping us off with this revision of terms and I'm calling the ombudsman about it" sentiment.
    We thought that Carzone were unfairly increasing their charges to existing customers without any negotiation.
    But then again you, among others, have already said in other threads that Carzone haven't revised the terms for ads created under the old terms. I've confirmed this by phone today and also mentioned it in post 21 of this thread, prior to phone confirmation.
    In principle, they're not. What they have done, though, is remove the facility for online FOC renewals. This, coupled with a recent reluctance to either answer the phone or return calls means that they are, in fact, 'unfairly increasing their charges to existing customers without any negotiation.'
    AudiChris wrote: »
    I have issue with:
    a) someone trying to sell their car for over a year insisting that their car should be listed for free into infinity. Yes it's possible, but is there any point?
    surely that's for the paying customer to decide?
    AudiChris wrote: »
    b) the assertion that Carzone have changed the t&c's on the pre-April ads when they clearly haven't.
    The T&Cs stated that I could renew FOC until the car sold. How can I do this when they've removed the facility to do it online and they won't answer the phone?
    AudiChris wrote: »
    c) the assertion that Autotrader is using some mind control techniques to divert unsuspecting shoppers to their local Autotrader website and maybe it should be reported to ComReg.
    I'm happy to concede this one.:)


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    #37
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Anan1 wrote: »
    In principle, they're not. What they have done, though, is remove the facility for online FOC renewals. This, coupled with a recent reluctance to either answer the phone or return calls means that they are, in fact, 'unfairly increasing their charges to existing customers without any negotiation.'
    Anan1 wrote: »
    The T&Cs stated that I could renew FOC until the car sold. How can I do this when they've removed the facility to do it online and they won't answer the phone?

    Poor customer service is a different issue. They should be answering their phones...

    Is it possible that their software won't run two pricing plans for private customers simultaneously? Maybe their "renew online FOC" button caused problems with their "renew for a fee" button and so they manually have to amend the accounts of the advertisers who put up ads before April?

    This would certainly explain the difficulty in getting through to them, there must be a MASSIVE amount of ads that need manual changing.

    Someone should get on and get an answer to this, sort the issue out once-and-for-all.
    Anan1 wrote: »
    surely that's for the paying customer to decide?

    Yes, but I'm still allowed to think it's pointless. Everyone's a winner! :D
    Anan1 wrote: »
    I'm happy to concede this one.:)

    :D:D:D


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    #38
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    TommyT: 'You`ve had your car for sale for a year? Maybe carzone have done you a favour. You could think about adjusting the price.' and AudiChris: '... if it takes you more than a month or two to sell your car, then there's a bigger problem than the monthly renewal fee...'

    This has absolutely nothing to do with the fact- as many people have pointed out- that I purchased a service on the condition that the car could be renewed every month until it was sold. The withdrawal of that facility after I had paid my money was, clearly, the issue.


    Thank you to Copacetic, Car-dealer, Anan1, Nox001 and Biro for grasping this.


    Steve06:

    'Has the op actually spoken to anyone in Carzone or has he just sent emails and left voice mails?'

    Why should the onus be suddenly placed on me, when they have changed the agreement by removing my ability to renew my ad? In fact, they sent me an email informing me that my advert will expire. They then added:"'If you have not sold your vehicle yet, you can extend your advertisements run by logging into your ‘My Adverts’ section and clicking ‘Rebook this Advert’".

    I went there and they told me I was being charged if I pressed 'Rebook this Advert'. The only choice was to press that or to not have my advert renewed. There was no alternative to renew for free as had been the case. Free phone renewals were not mentioned, or anything like it on the link. My attempts to contact by email and phone for well over a week were not responded to/answered, and my advert was running out. I then posted here.


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    #39
    Rebelheart
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 3,077 ✭✭✭Rebelheart


    Finally, this morning I got through to somebody, who happens to have been called David (how many people work in customer service, and is it a deliberate attempt to make one give up and pay online for a renewal?), and he renewed it for me.
    Had they informed me near the 'Rebook this Advert' link that I could maintain my free renewals by ringing them, there would be no problem. They did not, and my many attempts to contact the company were not answered and therefore there was a problem. Anyway, they probably did get a good few more sales out of this shyster move.


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    #40
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,461 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    Rebelheart wrote: »
    Had they informed me near the 'Rebook this Advert' link that I could maintain my free renewals by ringing them, there would be no problem. They did not, and my many attempts to contact the company were not answered and therefore there was a problem.

    Exactly. They directed people by email to renew online (which was not possible) while in fact it was only possible by phone (but the lines were busy and nobody rang back)

    Serious mistake by carzone.ie imho.

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



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    #41
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    I got David too. He was most apologetic, said that henceforth I could only renew FOC by phone and that they had been inundated with calls since the new website was introduced. Shortly afterwards, I got an email from carzone confirming what David had told me.


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    #42
    davecomedy
    Registered Users Posts: 55 ✭✭davecomedy


    Hi,

    Just saw your posts about carzone's site, i had a similar-ish problem with them, except i bought a car from a second hand dealer, ended up almost dien from the car been dodgy, contacted carzone to take the dealer off,as the were similar reports about the guys, and they never got back to me.

    Madness!


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    #43
    Barr
    Registered Users Posts: 7,010 ✭✭✭Barr


    I've left 8 messages this week and no one has ever contacted me back - their service is gone to crap.

    Does anyone know if you can renew on the old pricing system by email or does it have to be on the phone ?


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    #44
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    Barr wrote: »
    I've left 8 messages this week and no one has ever contacted me back - their service is gone to crap.

    Does anyone know if you can renew on the old pricing system by email or does it have to be on the phone ?
    Maybe read the thread?;)


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    #45
    Chonker
    Registered Users Posts: 412 ✭✭Chonker


    Barr wrote: »
    I've left 8 messages this week and no one has ever contacted me back - their service is gone to crap.

    Does anyone know if you can renew on the old pricing system by email or does it have to be on the phone ?

    This guy was very helpfull the last time they did it to me.

    --edit: personal details removed--

    Hope that helps


  • Options
    #46
    smash
    Closed Accounts Posts: 34,809 ✭✭✭✭smash


    davecomedy wrote: »
    Hi,

    Just saw your posts about carzone's site, i had a similar-ish problem with them, except i bought a car from a second hand dealer, ended up almost dien from the car been dodgy, contacted carzone to take the dealer off,as the were similar reports about the guys, and they never got back to me.

    Madness!
    What's that got to do with renewing private ads... oh and when you buy something.... "buyer be ware!"


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    #47
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Chonker wrote: »
    This guy was very helpfull the last time they did it to me.

    --edit: personal details removed--

    Hope that helps
    I removed the details of your contact as I'm not convinced that they are currently publicly available!


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    #48
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    AudiChris wrote: »
    I'm more concerned with the "Carzone is ripping us off with this revision of terms and I'm calling the ombudsman about it" sentiment.
    Glad to hear you're sorted, anyway. Meanwhile those of us with - binding - legal agreements to list our car until sold are still swinging in the wind. I've now rung that phone you've listed several times, email twice more, and they're dodging. That is sharp practice.
    I have issue with:
    a) someone trying to sell their car for over a year insisting that their car should be listed for free into infinity. Yes it's possible, but is there any point?
    Irrelevant. They entered into a legal contract.
    b) the assertion that Carzone have changed the t&c's on the pre-April ads when they clearly haven't.
    Well actually, that is not yet proven. They are not returning calls, not answering emails, so constructively, they have changed the T & C's by removing the ads in question and conveniently not making themselves available to 'relist' the old ads.......this, again, is sharp practice.
    c) the assertion that Autotrader is using some mind control techniques to divert unsuspecting shoppers to their local Autotrader website and maybe it should be reported to ComReg.
    Phew... good to get that off my chest :D

    It must be great to be perfect. In your (as previously stated by you) busy job of never taking more than a month to sell a car, some of your deposit cheques get redirected in the mail, I'm quite sure you'll still have to change your opinion. Or maybe if your i.d. and account details get stolen on some 'banking' website, will you still be as smart, then ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #49
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Just out of curiosity, do you have a copy of the contract that you entered into?


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    #50
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    kbannon wrote: »
    Just out of curiosity, do you have a copy of the contract that you entered into?


    Text from an email , when it came to the end of the first period:

    xxx xxx,

    Your advertisement for a xxxxx (ref. xxxx) is due to
    expire in 7 days. If you would like to extend your
    advertisement's run, please log in to My Carzone and click 'Renew this ad.'
    There is no charge for renewals.

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



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    #51
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,324 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    steve06 wrote: »
    tin-foil-hat wearing conspiracy theorists that can't read... as you already pointed out the solution.
    Can't read black-on-black, maybe! AudiChris: what were you thinking? :eek:

    Not your ornery onager



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    #52
    -Chris-
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,035 ✭✭✭✭-Chris-


    Ì give up... :)


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    #53
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,852 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    galwaytt wrote: »
    Text from an email , when it came to the end of the first period:

    xxx xxx,

    Your advertisement for a xxxxx (ref. xxxx) is due to
    expire in 7 days. If you would like to extend your
    advertisement's run, please log in to My Carzone and click 'Renew this ad.'
    There is no charge for renewals.
    OK. There is nothing in that email about the terms. In fact it appears more the opposite. This suggests that they are being nice to you in allowing you to renew for free.
    With all of the talk in this thread about legal contracts, etc., there is nothing so far to suggest that this offer was ever on the table.


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    #54
    unkel
    Registered Users Posts: 65,461 ✭✭✭✭unkel
    Chauffe, Marcel, chauffe!


    kbannon wrote: »
    With all of the talk in this thread about legal contracts, etc., there is nothing so far to suggest that this offer was ever on the table.

    You'll have to take my word for it :)

    On the carzone website at the time it was clearly defined that the ad would be online on the carzone.ie site until the car was sold (but obviously those pages aren't online any more at this stage). Any extras had a time limit. Best I can find is my order confirmation details. Let's reverse the logic and look at my order:
    carzone wrote:
    == Your order ==

    Price Euros Description

    30.00 Carzone & Channel partners

    20.00 Classified listing in Sunday Times Driving for 3 Editions


    50.00 Total

    Webzone
    Paramount Court
    Corrig Road
    Sandyford
    Dublin 18

    The Sunday Times ads were limited to 3 editions, there was no mention of any limit on carzone

    My ads on adverts.ie

    https://www.adverts.ie/member/5856/ads



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    #55
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    unkel wrote: »
    You'll have to take my word for it :)
    And mine.


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    #56
    galwaytt
    Registered Users Posts: 12,776 ✭✭✭✭galwaytt


    Anan1 wrote: »
    And mine.

    er...no.

    If I was PC person, I would know how to search cache and find the webpage with the page with the strap banner showing the 'until sold' thing.

    Of course, there's been two changes in Carzone - one, a few months ago, where they relisted the stuff f.o.c., and now where they're not. So, they've already acquiesced once....

    Besides, we can't all be hallucinatin', can we ?

    Ode To The Motorist

    “And my existence, while grotesque and incomprehensible to you, generates funds to the exchequer. You don't want to acknowledge that as truth because, deep down in places you don't talk about at the Green Party, you want me on that road, you need me on that road. We use words like freedom, enjoyment, sport and community. We use these words as the backbone of a life spent instilling those values in our families and loved ones. You use them as a punch line. I have neither the time nor the inclination to explain myself to a man who rises and sleeps under the tax revenue and the very freedom to spend it that I provide, and then questions the manner in which I provide it. I would rather you just said "thank you" and went on your way. Otherwise I suggest you pick up a bus pass and get the ********* ********* off the road” 



  • Options
    #57
    antodeco
    Registered Users, Subscribers Posts: 13,515 ✭✭✭✭antodeco


    By law, if T&C's change, dont they have to notify all customers 30 days in advance?


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    #58
    Steve
    Moderators, Category Moderators, Entertainment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 22,584 CMod ✭✭✭✭Steve


    antodeco wrote: »
    By law, if T&C's change, dont they have to notify all customers 30 days in advance?
    AFAIK, by law, they can't change t&c's without your consent.


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    #59
    Anan1
    Registered Users Posts: 22,815 ✭✭✭✭Anan1


    galwaytt wrote: »
    er...no.

    If I was PC person, I would know how to search cache and find the webpage with the page with the strap banner showing the 'until sold' thing.

    Of course, there's been two changes in Carzone - one, a few months ago, where they relisted the stuff f.o.c., and now where they're not. So, they've already acquiesced once....

    Besides, we can't all be hallucinatin', can we ?
    I'm agreeing with you here.;)


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    #60
    caspermccormack
    Registered Users Posts: 199 ✭✭caspermccormack


    I'm in same in the same boat, can't get them on the phone or by email, and i use to think that it was a great site for sellin cars and well priced. Shame really, i won't be using them again! now i see some other car sites advertising cars for free with photo's and some only charging a tenner "till the car is sold" so i'll give them a chance, even carzone had to start somewhere.


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    #61
    Son
    Registered Users Posts: 289 ✭✭Son


    I can't log in to renew my add,tried contacting...no joy,looks like now i will have to create a new add and pay up €40 or whatever it is,i never had any probs until Autotrader took over.


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