Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Athiest or anti-theist

Options
  • 14-10-2008 12:00pm
    #1
    Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭


    Sorry if this has been done before.

    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?

    I lurk a bit here and there can be such a difference in how points are addressed. From the - lure you in with false interest before dealing the deadly blow - approach (always very amusing to watch), to the "daaaaaaah you believe in gaaaad, you's stoooooopid" approach to the laid back, can't give a **** "i don't believe in god but don't care if you do" approach.

    So which one are you?


«1

Comments

  • Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    So which one are you?

    both.

    Quick question, what's an angel card reading, how does it work and what can it tell you?


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,305 ✭✭✭Zamboni


    Sorry if this has been done before.

    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?

    I lurk a bit here and there can be such a difference in how points are addressed. From the - lure you in with false interest before dealing the deadly blow - approach (always very amusing to watch), to the "daaaaaaah you believe in gaaaad, you's stoooooopid" approach to the laid back, can't give a **** "i don't believe in god but don't care if you do" approach.

    So which one are you?

    Each of the above depending on mood and how much I've had to drink.
    I generally couldn't give a toss what people believe but then the angelus comes on or Most Haunted and it ticks me off so I have a rant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,180 ✭✭✭Mena


    Both here.


  • Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    Sorry if this has been done before.

    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?

    I lurk a bit here and there can be such a difference in how points are addressed. From the - lure you in with false interest before dealing the deadly blow - approach (always very amusing to watch), to the "daaaaaaah you believe in gaaaad, you's stoooooopid" approach to the laid back, can't give a **** "i don't believe in god but don't care if you do" approach.

    So which one are you?

    Yes, I think they are distinct attitudes, but I am both.

    I would rarely be of the opinion, "I don't believe in god, but don't care if you do" unless it's politically expedient. Ie, talking to my boyfriend's mother!


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    pH wrote: »
    both.

    Quick question, what's an angel card reading, how does it work and what can it tell you?
    Ask in the spiritual forum, you will get a better answer than I can give you.
    Zamboni wrote: »
    Each of the above depending on mood and how much I've had to drink.
    I generally couldn't give a toss what people believe but then the angelus comes on or Most Haunted and it ticks me off so I have a rant.
    But why? Turn off the angelus (I mean seriously, it's one min long) or enjoy MH as the entertainment piece it is.
    Malari wrote: »
    Yes, I think they are distinct attitudes, but I am both.

    I would rarely be of the opinion, "I don't believe in god, but don't care if you do" unless it's politically expedient. Ie, talking to my boyfriend's mother!
    :D


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 18,150 ✭✭✭✭Malari


    But why? Turn off the angelus (I mean seriously, it's one min long) or enjoy MH as the entertainment piece it is.

    I've never seen Most Haunted, but I don't see a problem with enjoying it as a harmless piece of entertainment, such as telling ghost stories, talking about unexplained phenomena...there is an attraction to it.

    But the angelus IS irritating. I don't like the idea of the national broadcaster encouraging prayer.

    By the way...did anyone catch that piece on Joe Duffy last week about a vomiting bug going around Lourdes...I've been there and had similar reactions...it wasn't a bug! ;):p


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 413 ✭✭8kvscdpglqnyr4


    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?
    ...
    So which one are you?

    I am an Atheist. I think I'm more anti-organised-religion than anti-theist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Malari wrote: »
    By the way...did anyone catch that piece on Joe Duffy last week about a vomiting bug going around Lourdes...I've been there and had similar reactions...it wasn't a bug! ;):p
    :D
    I am an Atheist. I think I'm more anti-organised-religion than anti-theist.
    I think I'd be the same.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    Personal beliefs don't bother me in the slightest. Some people are better off with them in fact. It's different when religion starts creeping into other people's affairs, though.

    In those situations would be more anti-theism, than anti-theist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,141 ✭✭✭eoin5


    It'd be rare to be an anti-theist and not an atheist at the same time. I suppose its a bit like those people who are against smoking but cant quit coz theyre hooked.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 9,000 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    Sorry if this has been done before.

    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?

    I lurk a bit here and there can be such a difference in how points are addressed. From the - lure you in with false interest before dealing the deadly blow - approach (always very amusing to watch), to the "daaaaaaah you believe in gaaaad, you's stoooooopid" approach to the laid back, can't give a **** "i don't believe in god but don't care if you do" approach.

    So which one are you?
    Colin McGinn does this one very well.
    Anti - theist: Someone who is actively anti religion.
    Post - theist: Someone who has just grown out of it.

    I would be post - theist.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    eoin5 wrote: »
    It'd be rare to be an anti-theist and not an atheist at the same time. .
    What about an athiest who is not anti-theist, that what I meant. :)


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    I'm anti-theism, not anti-theist.

    I quite frequently don't like theists but to say that I am anti-theist would be unfair, to me and them.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Zillah wrote: »
    I'm anti-theism, not anti-theist.

    I quite frequently don't like theists but to say that I am anti-theist would be unfair, to me and them.
    ok so anti theist, athiest and anti theism are different. How?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    ok so anti theist, athiest and anti theism are different. How?
    I'll bite. :)

    Atheist: Doesn't believe in gods (and that's it).

    Anti-theism: Against the very concept of organised religion.

    Anti-theist:
    Puts the blame for religious problems solely on the shoulders of it's adherents.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Would you consider yourself to be athiest or anti-theist, or do you accept the fact that they are two different things?
    I'm atheist in the sense that I don't believe that any god or gods exist, nor ever have. That may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure it's not.

    I'm not anti-theist if that theist claims that a certain god or gods exist and leaves it at that. All of us have beliefs that others regard as silly, and I'm no different and I respect, as most people do, the rights of others to hold silly beliefs as much as I expect them to tolerate mine.

    I am, however, strongly anti-religion, by which I mean what happens when lots of people who think that they all believe the same thing, get together. At this point, it stops being a silliness and starts becoming an social issue -- extending from the mildly enjoyable and benign decency of, say, the monastery where I went to school, or some of the larger Protestant churches in Dublin right through the unpleasant Fred Phelps and onto other believers of other religions who assert a divine right to murder people who don't think like them.

    The problem happens when one comes across theists who are pro-religion, ie, interested in spreading their religion at the expense of the newly-converted's previous beliefs. I detest that, and I believe that in its more extreme cases, it's tantamount to cultural genocide -- the wilful destruction of culture and its replacement with, for example, a bland, christian miasma that's I've seen is largely the same in the backstreets of Jakarta as it is in Kingston shantytown. It's the reduction of culture to the level of a consumer product, a bit like McDonalds have reduced fast food to a tasteless and distinctly uninspired, global brand and it's unclear to me why such religious people assume that they have a right to invade other cultures in that manner, or that they should be respected for doing so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 17,371 ✭✭✭✭Zillah


    robindch wrote: »
    it's unclear to me why such religious people assume that they have a right to invade other cultures in that manner

    Really? Thats unclear to you? I'd bet you could hazzard a pretty good guess. There are of course several reasons, the most common of which I'd imagine are "saving" others from Hell, wishing to spread their happy spa Jesus love and regrettably, a mandate from the all powerful ruler of the universe that humanity should worship and obey him and he needs crusaders to make that happen.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,793 ✭✭✭oeb


    I am most certainly anti-orginised religion. I would probably be in the middle of a jihad against it right now if that was not such an oxymoron =)

    The verdict is out on if I am against people having faith in a supernatural being (Or any other misconceptions about things (as I brought up in the other thread I posted today)). I will defiantly share my viewpoint with them and I won't pull any punches, but I wont put too much effort into trying to convert them to my way of thinking. But then again, I would not force an alcoholic to go to AA, or a drug addict to go to rehab either.

    For the records pH, as far as I am aware angle cards are generic fortune telling devices, just like runes or tarot cards or any of that crap.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    oeb wrote: »
    I am most certainly anti-orginised religion. I would probably be in the middle of a jihad against it right now if that was not such an oxymoron =)

    The verdict is out on if I am against people having faith in a supernatural being (Or any other misconceptions about things (as I brought up in the other thread I posted today)). I will defiantly share my viewpoint with them and I won't pull any punches, but I wont put too much effort into trying to convert them to my way of thinking. But then again, I would not force an alcoholic to go to AA, or a drug addict to go to rehab either.

    For the records pH, as far as I am aware angle cards are generic fortune telling devices, just like runes or tarot cards or any of that crap.
    Yep, and so long as it's not done agressively, then most people with beliefs would be more than happy to listen and discuss with you. If not, they're not worth talking to.

    As for angel cards, PH ask in the spiritual forum, the above description, is not quite right.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    As for angel cards, PH ask in the spiritual forum, the above description, is not quite right.

    Maybe if I paid you €50 you'd tell me?


  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    Zillah wrote: »
    Really? Thats unclear to you?
    Oops, ran out of time on tuesday -- free beer trumps boards any time :)
    Zillah wrote: »
    I'd bet you could hazzard a pretty good guess. There are of course several reasons, the most common of which I'd imagine are "saving" others from Hell, wishing to spread their happy spa Jesus love and regrettably, a mandate from the all powerful ruler of the universe that humanity should worship and obey him and he needs crusaders to make that happen.
    Yes, there are plenty of reasons, including these, which provide intellectual (or economic or evolutionary etc, etc) reasons why the religious assume the right to invade and eradicate other cultures. But for the life of me, I find it impossible to sympathize with any of them -- that's the bit that's unclear.

    In cultural terms, it seems to me that the process of a missionary eradicating the local spiritual beliefs and replacing them with his own, is analogous to the same guy showing up and telling his newly-acquired flock to chuck out whatever musical instruments their culture had developed, and to replace them with the guitar and tambourine he'd brought along.

    Somebody who was genuinely interested would appreciate the local variation and would not spend months or years attempting to snuff it out.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    pH wrote: »
    Maybe if I paid you €50 you'd tell me?
    I find that very insulting actually.


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I find that very insulting actually.
    To be insulted you would have to be surprised, I would have thought. And you must have known that the perception here of such practices is that it is a cash business, rather than a supernatural art.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    I'm not saying it is insulting a belief I have, as TBH angel cards are not something I have any time for, I accept that a lot of it is bull. It is insulting to me personally, yes, I know that here its seen as a money spinner, I didn't bring it up, the question was asked directly of me I declined to answer an (off topic) question. So I get lumped into a bracket with every tarot/angel/rune money spinner? Whats the point coming in here and being honest about my beliefs if thats the way a regular poster responds, and if thats the way a mod responds to a post obviously only there to offend?


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 25,558 Mod ✭✭✭✭Dades


    I really don't think pH intended the offense you have taken.

    It seemed to me to be a light-hearted pop at the "business" of fortune telling, rather than anything personal. You just happened to be the, uh, medium.

    Perhaps pH might have something to say, or you can PM me if you like.


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,188 ✭✭✭pH


    Well "angels", spiritual beings directly created by God without free-will seem to be on-topic in this forum. You're pimping a reiki-master site in your sig, so it's obviously important to you.
    Reiki sessions last up to an hour and a half, each session costs €50. This is for the session itself, any questions you have before the session, any questions you have after and any thing else you would like to speak about. It also includes a short angel card reading or animal card reading.
    http://www.freewebs.com/reiki-kildare/ratesservices.htm

    I'm not sure about animal card readings either, but I dare say they would be off-topic for this forum, angels less so.

    Also this:
    I'd quite happily do it for nothing but have been advised by my Reiki master not to give it away.
    http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=54157944&postcount=3

    So if anything, I was just checking if you still obey your reiki master.


  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    Yep, I charge for reiki. I studied to become a reiki master, I don't make any false promises, so why shouldn't I charge? €50 is a very good price for a session in fact. :)

    If you want to know more about angel or animal cards then please ask in the relevant place.

    I don't use them as a fortune telling tool. I don't believe they can do that. But as I said. Ask in the relevant place, you will get your answers there.

    As for your assumption of "angles" being directly linked to god, thats not necessarily true. As I said, I don't believe in god.

    And why do you use the word "pimping"? Practically everyone has a link of some sort in their sig. You're being unnesessarily agressive and off topic. If you want to discuss me, or what I do, then start a thread.


  • Registered Users Posts: 9,000 ✭✭✭Tim Robbins


    I think there's a slight contradiction between this:
    robindch wrote: »
    I'm not anti-theist if that theist claims that a certain god or gods exist and leaves it at that.

    and
    I am, however, strongly anti-religion, by which I mean what happens when lots of people who think that they all believe the same thing, get together.

    People get their God ideas from Religion after all. They may have got bored of listening to Father Murphy but ultimately he put the idea in their head and he's who'll they revert to when they want to up their God ideas even though they may not go every week.
    The problem happens when one comes across theists who are pro-religion, ie, interested in spreading their religion at the expense of the newly-converted's previous beliefs.
    With you 100% there. Anyone who is convinced their religion is absolute truth and every single other one is abjectly false is a just bit silly and insular. It is also rather offensive and insulting that they think they can and should deprive others of their cultural, political and social biases (their religion) but that they keep their own (religion).


  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 24,417 Mod ✭✭✭✭robindch


    I think there's a slight contradiction between this
    Not really. I was trying to draw a distinction between individual beliefs and collective delusion.

    An individually massively deluded person is unlikely to propagate his delusions very far, or achieve much through them before somebody notices and does something about them. There are plenty of unfortunate people running around on psychiatric meds to deal with individually silly beliefs.

    However, when groups form, each member of which believes them all to hold roughly the same beliefs, especially if the beliefs demand that reason should be left at the front door and group solidarity and collective mass action are the way forward, then all the worst aspects of groupthink tend to assert themselves and nasty things can happen. Ask anyone in Jonestown, Guyana.


  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users Posts: 14,772 ✭✭✭✭Whispered


    robindch wrote: »
    Not really. I was trying to draw a distinction between individual beliefs and collective delusion.

    .
    Or when more than one person believes in something, in your head, it adds weight to your belief - therefore you "must" be right.

    I was kicked out of a class when I was 8 for asking a nun if we could be wrong about religion, she said "but it's what we believe" and I said "yes, but could we be wrong" She dragged me out of the classroom, I had no idea what I had done. :mad: bloody nuns, I was only asking a question!


Advertisement