Non Nationals, Refugee's and the Budget.

javaboy

Degsy wrote: »

Oh yeah sorry..people used to go out and work for a ****ing living instead of going to college and living at home into thir 30's.
Did it never occur to you that things are different in other countries and cultures/the few bob the kid makes might be all his family has to live on.

You know I wasn't even getting involved on either side of the discussion. I was just pointing out that your rant was based on a misreading of MizzLolly's post.

You could just admit you were wrong instead of launching into another pointless rant at me considering I haven't even given my opinion on the whole thing in this thread. But whatever.

CiaranC

Would you feck off out of that Degsy, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously when one minute you are condemning people for living at home until they can afford housing themselves and then you are condemning people for living in socialised housing. Typical of your ilk, you are spouting reactionary bull****. Thankfully you are a small, if irritating, minority.

MizzLolly

Degsy wrote: »

See the way i knew you were a student?
Because they think that everybody who disagrees with them is ignorant.
Do y ou know that there are kids who spend 14 hours a day scouring rubbish dumps for items to recycle?
Do you know that there are kids who make copies of kalashnikov rifles to sell?
Why?Because this is what they need to do to provide food for thier tables.
It might seem abhorrent to you and university-going people of your ilk but the ways of the world can be sometimes cruel.

Child labour exists because we allow it to. Why do you feel the need to try and talk down to me because I am in university? You clearly have no clue what you're talking about. You're typing complete nonsense.

Most of the time, children who are forced into unfair working conditions are paid little or no wages. The majority of child labour occurs on family farms where the kid's family cannot afford adult labour.

In the more extreme cases, a child is forced into prostitution or the army. Should we just accept this because ''sometimes the world can be cruel''? Sorry degsy but that's a complete cop out!

These problems can be tackled and have been in many poverty stricken areas in the past. Look up any humanitarian organisation or NGO and you'll see this. Child labour does not need to happen. Often, adults are forced out of their jobs in favour of cheap child labour. Do you think the adult labourers are happy with this?

Wouldn't you imagine that sending a child to school and giving them a proper education will benefit them better in the long run?

Or shall we just accept that sh*t happens and deny these kids a childhood and in turn, deepen the poverty cycle?

Sometimes the ignorance of people on here honestly stuns me. Nobody is taking a personal dig at you degsy, why feel the need to refer to me as that 'type' simply because I'm in college? Did you miss the part where I said I pay for it myself? I do know what it means to work hard but I am big enough to realise that I am damn lucky to have what I have. There are far worse things happening out there than having to pay holiday tax. That was my point. There's no need to get personal.

Degsy

CiaranC wrote: »

Would you feck off out of that Degsy, how is anyone supposed to take you seriously when one minute you are condemning people for living at home until they can afford housing themselves and then you are condemning people for living in socialised housing. Typical of your ilk, you are spouting reactionary bull****. Thankfully you are a small, if irritating, minority.

Nope.I'm "condemning" poxy students who have no idea of what goes on in the real world and yet call everybody else names who doesnt agree with them.
They might ba able to "afford housing" if they went and got jobs instead of hanging out in college into thier 30's.
The people who live in "socialised"(lol) housing are there because of the culture of handouts perpetuated by the government and the dole system.
So are you going to go to tyrellstown or finglas to disprove what i've said with your own eyes or what?

MizzLolly

Degsy wrote: »

Nope.I'm "condemning" poxy students who have no idea of what goes on in the real world

What makes you think I have no idea what goes on in the real world?

AARRRGH

MizzLolly wrote: »

Child labour exists because we allow it to.

I'd alter that slightly to child labour exists because we want it to.

How many people stopped wearing Nike clothes after they found out they are made using child labour? I'll take a guess and say "very few people".

MizzLolly

AARRRGH wrote: »

I'd alter that slightly to child labour exists because we want it to.

How many people stopped wearing Nike clothes after they found out they are made using child labour? I'll take a guess and say "very few people".

Bang on AARRRGH. Nail on the head there.

Marcus.Aurelius

Just read MizzLolly's posts.

LOL.

If you can't see the wood for the trees etc.,

The cycle of laziness perpetuates only because we let it. Take some action there, so we can free up some cash then.

Degsy

AARRRGH wrote: »

I'd alter that slightly to child labour exists because we want it to.

How many people stopped wearing Nike clothes after they found out they are made using child labour? I'll take a guess and say "very few people".

+1.
Either do something about it or shut up and continue to be part of the problem.
The problem with privilege is that it turns people into hypocrites.
The third world is poor precisely because of the demands of the first world.

thelordofcheese

MizzLolly wrote: »

What makes you think I have no idea what goes on in the real world?

because you disagree with him. The irony is delicious.

CiaranC

Degsy obviously has a chip on his shoulder, hates students and thinks everyone is getting free everything except him.

I see this crap all the time. I had to listen to some Taxi driver telling me that non-nationals were leeching off the economy that "we" built over the last 15 years, while my mate from France (a Phd who lives and works here) was in the car. I politely pointed out to him that he hadnt built a ****ing thing, he is an uneducated twat who drives a poxy taxi for a living and he is completely expendable to "our" economy and always has been.

Of course, these clowns think they have some inherant rights to dictate policy just because they happen to be from here, even though foreign labour, expertise and investment is a massive contributor to our current ecomomic level. And the more ignorant and stupid they are, the more nationalistic and bigoted they are.

Just let them bleat away, they have no pull in society anyway.

Marcus.Aurelius

CiaranC wrote: »

Degsy obviously has a chip on his shoulder, hates students and thinks everyone is getting free everything except him.

I see this crap all the time. I had to listen to some Taxi driver telling me that non-nationals were leeching off the economy that "we" built over the last 15 years, while my mate from France (a Phd who lives and works here) was in the car. I politely pointed out to him that he hadnt built a ****ing thing, he is an uneducated twat who drives a poxy taxi for a living and he is completely expendable to "our" economy and always has been.

Of course, these clowns think they have some inherant rights to dictate policy just because they happen to be from here, even though foreign labour, expertise and investment is a massive contributor to our current ecomomic level. And the more ignorant and stupid they are, the more nationalistic and bigoted they are.

Just let them bleat away, they have no pull in society anyway.

Don't you have an inkling that you and said taxi driver are on opposites? A majority of immigrants are spongers but there are good workers too. Your "higher than thou" attitude to him is hardly a positive quality either.

A balance must be struck. We cannot continue to be like you, i.e. ignoring the issue because of the good oul PC googles, or like the taxi driver, on the other opposite.

Tellox

Degsy wrote: »

Nope.I'm "condemning" poxy students who have no idea of what goes on in the real world and yet call everybody else names who doesnt agree with them.
They might ba able to "afford housing" if they went and got jobs instead of hanging out in college into thier 30's.

Before I go on, I'm not a student.

You do realise that fees for students are hitting hard, yes? Imho, students should be getting more money - Ireland doesnt want a "manual labour" work force, it wants an educated society capable of attracting and holding down good, secure jobs.

The big ****ing shocker in all this is that the dole has gone up - why? The people working themselves to the bone day in day out are being punished, and those who would prefer to sit at home all day get a pay rise?

Take this for example: A single mother is working a 21-hour week. She would likely bring in around €10,000 a year after tax. If this single mother were to sit on the dole and also claim single parents allowance, she'd be making considerably more.

MizzLolly

Joker wrote: »

Just read MizzLolly's posts.

LOL.

Is there something in my posts that you would like to add to?

Or are you just LOL-ing because you've nothing else to add to the discussion?

Degsy

MizzLolly wrote: »

These problems can be tackled and have been in many poverty stricken areas in the past. Look up any humanitarian organisation or NGO and you'll see this. Child labour does not need to happen. Often, adults are forced out of their jobs in favour of cheap child labour. Do you think the adult labourers are happy with this?

Wouldn't you imagine that sending a child to school and giving them a proper education will benefit them better in the long run?

The problems of child labour and poverty generally is explainable by one thing and one-thing only.
Corrupt third-world governments.
NGO's and charities are throwing money at poverty-striken countries and all thats happening is that they're helping to prop-up corrupt regimes.
The military juntas and crazed despots who run these countries are the reason their people are poor and first world "aid" is helping to keep it like that.
Withdraw foreign aid and eventually people will learn to fend for themselves.
Think about it.

CiaranC

Joker wrote: »

A majority of immigrants are spongers but there are good workers too.

Bull****. Total bull****.

A balance must be struck. We cannot continue to be like you, i.e. ignoring the issue because of the good oul PC googles

PC goggles, lol, this is the latest tool of the neo-fascist. Anyone who is conservative enough to want to maintain any of the status quo of our modern liberal democracies is branded PC these days. If you arent burning paodephiles in oil or putting children into work camps you are PC by AH standards. PC my arse.

AlmightyCushion

Everyone, less of the personal attacks or there will be bans handed out.

Degsy

Tellox wrote: »

Before I go on, I'm not a student.

You do realise that fees for students are hitting hard, yes? Imho, students should be getting more money - Ireland doesnt want a "manual labour" work force, it wants an educated society capable of attracting and holding down good, secure jobs.

What good,secure jobs????
The ones that involve sitting on a conveyer belt in an american multinational somewhere?
Maybe ireland doesnt want a "manual labour" work force but where are all the socilogists and the people with arts degrees going to work when the econmy bottoms out and the multinationals outsource elsewhere.
The fact is that very few students are actually being tought anything thats any bloody use...a load of theoretical bull**** and fancy philosophies.
Then they get upset because when they and 1200 of thier peers enter the jobs market they dont find the cushy,40 grand a year job they feel they deserve.
So what happens?"I'm not working in THAT..i'm going back to college to do this and do that"..irish people wont do the work..we import foreigners etc etc..nobody wants to work but you've got to start somewhere.

Don't you have an inkling that you and said taxi driver are on opposites? A majority of immigrants are spongers but there are good workers too. Your "higher than thou" attitude to him is hardly a positive quality either.

A majority of immigrants are spongers? Can you back that up? And immigrants from where? From Britain? From China? I'm sick and tired of the very thinly veiled racism in this country. I have more respect for someone who comes out and admits to being a racist than for the many, many Irish I encounter day in day out who claim they're just 'speaking the truth' and that the rest of us are 'bleeding heart PC liberals.' Not a day goes by when someone doesn't comment that I don't 'look Irish' - guess what it's 2008, not 1900. I shouldn't be constantly made to feel like an outsider because I have tanned skin. I hate how people think racism is only mistreating someone based on their race. Making assumptions about people based on their appearance (i.e commenting that it's funny that a black/Asian person has an Irish accent) is also racist. Making people feel uncomfortable is rude. It's bad manners. Do you not learn this as children? It's not being uber PC and liberal, it's the norm in most other civilized countries. My American/Canadian/Australian mates are shocked what what comes out of the mouths of Irish people on a regular basis. People who genuinely can't understand why what they're saying is offensive. You look thick and you look ignorant, don't kid yourself that it's acceptable. I am Irish but the fact I grew up in England means I can see the place as an outsider as well.

Degsy

[quote=[Deleted User];57574802]A majority of immigrants are spongers? Can you back that up? And immigrants from where? From Britain? From China? I'm sick and tired of the very thinly veiled racism in this country. I have more respect for someone who comes out and admits to being a racist than for the many, many Irish I encounter day in day out who claim they're just 'speaking the truth' and that the rest of us are 'bleeding heart PC liberals.' Not a day goes by when someone doesn't comment that I don't 'look Irish' - guess what it's 2008, not 1900. I shouldn't be constantly made to feel like an outsider because I have tanned skin. I hate how people think racism is only mistreating someone based on their race. Making assumptions about people based on their appearance (i.e commenting that it's funny that a black/Asian person has an Irish accent) is also racist. Making people feel uncomfortable is rude. It's bad manners. Do you not learn this as children? It's not being uber PC and liberal, it's the norm in most other civilized countries. My American/Canadian/Australian mates are shocked what what comes out of the mouths of Irish people on a regular basis. People who genuinely can't understand why what they're saying is offensive.[/quote]

Jesus such thin-skinned crap people come out with.
Do you really care what people think of you or anybody else?
There are people who'd "treat you like an outsider" or "make comments about your skin" but so what,Does thier opinion matter to you?It shouldnt.
And as for australian/american/canadian "friends" of yours..they've got FAR bigger problems with racism than we'll ever have..i suggest they go home and be "shocked" on thier own doorsteps instead.

ArseBurger

[quote=[Deleted User];57574802]I'm sick and tired of the very thinly veiled racism in this country. [/quote]

I'd counter that it's not even veiled - more institutionalised.

CiaranC

Degsy wrote: »

What good,secure jobs????
The ones that involve sitting on a conveyer belt in an american multinational somewhere?
Maybe ireland doesnt want a "manual labour" work force but where are all the socilogists and the people with arts degrees going to work when the econmy bottoms out and the multinationals outsource elsewhere.
The fact is that very few students are actually being tought anything thats any bloody use...a load of theoretical bull**** and fancy philosophies.
Then they get upset because when they and 1200 of thier peers enter the jobs market they dont find the cushy,40 grand a year job they feel they deserve.
So what happens?"I'm not working in THAT..i'm going back to college to do this and do that"..irish people wont do the work..we import foreigners etc etc..nobody wants to work but you've got to start somewhere.

Heres a newsflash. Our economic boom was perpetuated by having low corporate tax rates, alongside a young, highly educated workforce and membership of the EU, allowing an elasticity in the workforces expansion where needed.

It is this workforce who drove the boom, nobody else. You being resentful of these people, all the business/tech/science trained Irish and foreign people, doesnt change it.

Boo-hoo, you decided not to go to college and got a "real job" in the "real world". Well done you.

Caoimhín

Degsy wrote: »

Jesus such thin-skinned crap people come out with.
Do you really care what people think of you or anybody else?
There are people who'd "treat you like an outsider" or "make comments about your skin" but so what,Does thier opinion matter to you?It shouldnt.
And as for australian/american/canadian "friends" of yours..they've got FAR bigger problems with racism than we'll ever have..i suggest they go home and be "shocked" on thier own doorsteps instead.

Your on fire today Degsy.

I take my hat off to you Sir.

Tellox

Degsy wrote: »

Jesus such thin-skinned crap people come out with.
Do you really care what people think of you or anybody else?
There are people who'd "treat you like an outsider" or "make comments about your skin" but so what,Does thier opinion matter to you?It shouldnt.
And as for australian/american/canadian "friends" of yours..they've got FAR bigger problems with racism than we'll ever have..i suggest they go home and be "shocked" on thier own doorsteps instead.

So you hate both students, and foreign nationals?

Right, so with students being what most people would consider the educated workforce who often hold down the more "secure" jobs (high tech companies, google etc), and it's often going to be a foreign national that you see in a less responsible (and no offence intended to absolutely anybody on here) role such as a shop clerk etc.

A lot of people blame the lack of jobs in Ireland on those damn foreigners stealing our work, but the pure honest fact of the matter is that in four years time that person seeking a job has likely completed their college course and is receiving job offers from good profile companies, wheras the shop clerk is still working and hasnt gotton any substantial pay rises.

As far as businesses go, it's a more secure investment for them to hire a full time foreign national than a young student in college who won't want to be associated with the place once they've gotton their degree/h.dip etc etc.

There are plenty of opportunities you can make for yourself without going to college, but the vast majority of the young population now do attend college and come out with a decent and secure job at the end of it. Twenty years ago it may not have been the same situation, but this is the world we live in now. You can either get used to it or leave.

Alternatively, if you whinge and moan about it enough, I'm sure that'll also change it.

MizzLolly

Degsy wrote: »

Withdraw foreign aid and eventually people will learn to fend for themselves.
Think about it.

Are you having a laugh?

No, really!! Are you honestly being serious here? :eek:

dlofnep

Degsy wrote: »

Withdraw foreign aid and eventually people will learn to fend for themselves.
Think about it.

*thinks about it*

*disagrees with it*

*shakes stick at degsy*

Bad Degsy!

DublinWriter

stevoman wrote: »

Non Nationals, Refugee's and the Budget.

Lose the apostrophes, then we'll talk...

CiaranC

MizzLolly wrote: »

Are you having a laugh?

No, really!! Are you honestly being serious here? :eek:

From this thread alone, we can see that the lad would like:

Social housing curtailed
The welfare state curtailed
Education curtailed
Foreign investment curtailed
Immigration curtailed
Foreign aid to the third world curtailed
A return to agrarian values that our grandparents 'enjoyed' (:eek:)
The end of a highly educated workforce so we wont have to import Asians and Slavs to work in the service industry

LOL, its pure genius. We could be back in the 1930s overnight!

Mena

Lets cut the bull**** here. People like Degsy aren't really anti- non-national (and wtf is that? We have nationalities too you know). They're anti-Nigerian, or to put it more bluntly, Anti-Black.

It's not the Europeans, Americans (or "whites") they have a problem with, but our dark skinned brothers.

So lets start calling a spade a spade eh?

deisedevil

Mena wrote: »

Lets cut the bull**** here. People like Degsy aren't really anti- non-national (and wtf is that? We have nationalities too you know). They're anti-Nigerian, or to put it more bluntly, Anti-Black.

It's not the Europeans, Americans (or "whites") they have a problem with, but our dark skinned brothers.

So lets start calling a spade a spade eh?

I thought you were asking for the Bull**** to be cut out, then you go and add a turd or two of your own.