The AH Budget discussion thread.

Degsy · 14-10-2008 5:40pm

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Why do people think dole "spongers" as you call them are getting loads from this budget? The jobseekers allowance/benefit is remaining exactly the same. So with the increase in VAT, petrol, motor tax, etc. they are actually coming out worse than before the budget.

Edit- as far as I can see, it's only carers allowance/benefit, state pension and maternity benefit increasing.

People on the dole shouldnt have cars..where do they get the money to run them on 200 quid a week anyway?

Spud83 · 14-10-2008 5:40pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I never mentioned the IT industry. I mentioned multinationals, not all of which are in the IT industry.

Whatever about the potential of the empoyment they bring here, they can WELL afford to step up to the plate as the rest of us have had to. There should have been an equilivent "temporary levy" put beside corporation tax onto company profits.

Unemployment is rising. How do you think these companies would pay for a increase in corporation tax? Would they just say ah thats grand sure that come out of our profits. Obviously not they would cut jobs to balance it out, and be able to blame the government while they do it.

Not to mention that an increase in the corporation tax would have an effect on our competitiveness in attracting multinational investment which would have a very bad effect on the number jobs being created here.

The jobs being low-skilled or high-skilled does not matter.

Oshare Bones · 14-10-2008 5:43pm

Degsy wrote: »

People on the dole shouldnt have cars..where do they get the money to run them on 200 quid a week anyway?

I don't think it's relevant how dole recipients actually spend the money the receive. A small car for someone with a full license and few years NCB only costs around 50-60/ week to run anyway.

foxy06 · 14-10-2008 5:44pm

Can anyone tell me what the government buying equity in affordable housing means?

Darragh29 · 14-10-2008 5:44pm

javaboy wrote: »

The point is that they'll just pack up and leave if they get taxed too much. They are in the business to make money. There's no 'stepping up to the plate' because they don't feel a moral obligation to contribute any more than they have to. They follow the money. That's why these corporations get so rich.

Look, none of us want to pay more tax! We aren't actually "stepping up to the plate", we are being hit for more tax that we don't want to pay. We have a muppet who is borrowing more money instead of taking a fu*king chainsaw to the public sector and squeezing as much as he can out of ALL those who can be hit for more.

He could have put 0.5% onto corporation tax and it would have meant he would have to borrow less, nobody woudl be leaving the country over 0.5% and corporation tax would still be an extremely generous 13%.

Dinter · 14-10-2008 5:45pm

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

The jobs being low-skilled or high-skilled does not matter.

Don't bother trying to argue with him. His sole experience of life is what he overhears from his "mates". Reread the past couple of pages of this thread and you'll see he's already shambling backwards over his own anecdotes*.

*lies.

Bluetonic · 14-10-2008 5:48pm

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Why do people think dole "spongers" as you call them are getting loads from this budget? The jobseekers allowance/benefit is remaining exactly the same. So with the increase in VAT, petrol, motor tax, etc. they are actually coming out worse than before the budget.

Edit- as far as I can see, it's only carers allowance/benefit, state pension and maternity benefit increasing.

JB & JA is increasing by 6 euro 50 cent from 1/1/09

Also...

In respect of new claimants, the required underlying number of paid contributions is being increased from 52 to 104 for entitlement to Jobseeker’s Benefit, Illness Benefit and Health & Safety Benefit;

Degsy · 14-10-2008 5:49pm

Oshare Bones wrote: »

I don't think it's relevant how dole recipients actually spend the money the receive. A small car for someone with a full license and few years NCB only costs around 50-60/ week to run anyway.

What about buying the car,insuring it etc?
Cars cost a bloody fortune.
Maybe the dole recipients could use the car to make money..hang on loads of them already do that.

ongarite · 14-10-2008 5:49pm

javaboy wrote: »

Why do people expect every job a high tech company provides to be high skilled? The places will still need cleaners, canteen workers, security etc. In any major setup there's going to be a need for support/services staff.

Some of what you said rang a few bells about Intel. Just curious.

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've a mate with a degree in engineering who left Intel after being stuck in a room loading processors into some machine for 6 months. He said a kid on scondary school work experience could have done it successfully.

I work for one of the big equipment suppliers in Intel and I can confirm what Javaboy & Darragh29 is true.
The majority of the jobs in Intel are far from high-skilled and the most of them couldn't think for themselves. Intel is very very strictly regulated work envoirenment with all work done from pre-printed procedures.
A trained monkey could do most of the grunt work.

Anyway what's this got to do with the Budget.

14-10-2008 5:49pm

Ah well,Might as well stay a student for a few more years.

Oshare Bones · 14-10-2008 5:49pm

Bluetonic wrote: »

JB & JA is increasing by 6 euro 50 cent from 1/1/09

Also...

Where does it actually say that though? I can only find info relevant to carers allowance/pension/etc.

Oshare Bones · 14-10-2008 5:52pm

Degsy wrote: »

What about buying the car,insuring it etc?
Cars cost a bloody fortune.

They don't really. I bought my car (1.4 litre) 3 years ago outright for €1,800. My insurance at the moment on a full license is just under €60/month. Tax works out around €30/month. Then there's just petrol which is roughly €20/week, so €80/month = total €170/month or, around €42/week. It's hardly gonna break the bank.

Darragh29 · 14-10-2008 5:53pm

alanmurphy83 wrote: »

Unemployment is rising. How do you think these companies would pay for a increase in corporation tax? Would they just say ah thats grand sure that come out of our profits. Obviously not they would cut jobs to balance it out, and be able to blame the government while they do it.

Not to mention that an increase in the corporation tax would have an effect on our competitiveness in attracting multinational investment which would have a very bad effect on the number jobs being created here.

The jobs being low-skilled or high-skilled does not matter.

Corporation tax is a tax on profits. If a company makes 100,000 Euro profix, they have a corporation tax liability of 12,500 Euro. If he put 0.5% on the corporation tax rate, the same company would have a corporation tax liability of 13,000 Euro.

One problem we have in this country is that we seem to have it in our heads that we need multinationals to come here and drop jobs at our front door. We have very little sense of taking ownership of creating jobs for ourselves, very little sense of innovation and spotting opportuities for ourselves, capitalising on these opportuities and building success for ourselves.

As long as we keep prostituting the workforce to the weathiest multinationals who are coming here for tax reasons and are offering what are in reality low skilled jobs, then we are selling ourselves short.

shayser · 14-10-2008 5:56pm

Dragan wrote: »

SW , much like the health service, is completely miss managed and a lot of the money put into it does not go to the people who are deserving.

If they provided a deep and clear review of both these issues i would have no problem with them putting more money into it.

I do have issues with the current system.

Absolutely. About three weeks ago I was at the radiology dept. of the local general. At the dept. reception there were desk and computers for 10 people. Two were in use. On each desk was hp laserjet network printer, the type of which we have two at our work for fifty people. Theyt get one each. I noticed this while I waited for the two receptionists who were working to finish their chat.

The last time this hospital got their computers upgraded, the computers sat in storage for close to two years.

Somebody said chainsaw.

Darragh29 · 14-10-2008 5:57pm

ongarite wrote: »

I work for one of the big equipment suppliers in Intel and I can confirm what Javaboy & Darragh29 is true.
The majority of the jobs in Intel are far from high-skilled and the most of them couldn't think for themselves. Intel is very very strictly regulated work envoirenment with all work done from pre-printed procedures.
A trained monkey could do most of the grunt work.

Anyway what's this got to do with the Budget.

I've heard a few stories like this about Intel, also many Dell jobs are apparently monkey training centres. I'm not making this sh*t up!

This is all grand here and now, the problem is when these multinationals head off somewhere else, the people left here skill haven't a skill that can be marketed at a high-tech company. We really need to think more of ourselves...

Jesus Wept · 14-10-2008 5:57pm

prendy wrote: »

so as a low earning professional with a car i am getting screwed while non smoking mates on the dole are laughing.

Stop smoking and you can save circa 3k in the coming 12 months. :pac:

rossie1977 · 14-10-2008 5:57pm

Degsy wrote: »

People on the dole shouldnt have cars..where do they get the money to run them on 200 quid a week anyway?

probably the same place people in low wage and minimum wage jobs get money to afford big houses and big cars................credit

Eoin · 14-10-2008 5:58pm

Darragh29 wrote: »

I've heard a few stories like this about Intel, also many Dell jobs are apparently monkey training centres. I'm not making this sh*t up!

This is all grand here and now, the problem is when these multinationals head off somewhere else, the people left here skill haven't a skill that can be marketed at a high-tech company. We really need to think more of ourselves...

Would you please qualify your posts to exclude the multitude of specialised IT jobs that many of us enjoy?

Bluetonic · 14-10-2008 5:59pm

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Where does it actually say that though? I can only find info relevant to carers allowance/pension/etc.

People of Working Age

The maximum personal rate for all other weekly schemes will increase by €6.50 per week from the first week in January and proportionate increases will apply in respect of people on reduced rates of payment.

Associated maximum Qualified Adult Allowances (QAAs) will increase by €4.30 per week (€4.60 per week in the case of the Invalidity Pension scheme where the qualified adult is aged under 66) from January 2009, with proportionate increases in respect of people on reduced rates of payment.

There will also be an increase of €8.50 per week in the minimum rate of Maternity Benefit and Adoptive Benefit from January 2009.

http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html

Darragh29 · 14-10-2008 6:03pm

eoin_s wrote: »

Would you please qualify your posts to exclude the multitude of specialised IT jobs that many of us enjoy?

Grand Eoin, I take your point. I'm not referring specifically to the IT industry though, I'm talking about multinationals.

If these multinationals started pulling out, there will be a lot of people who do not have an IT skill that can be brought to another job. If my observations were anything to go by, there would be a lot more people with immediate career problems than there would be people who have an IT qualifiaction who could just move to another job...

Caoimhín · 14-10-2008 6:08pm

foxy06 wrote: »

Can anyone tell me what the government buying equity in affordable housing means?

What it means is that the government is going to take the place of the corrupt banks and give loans to young people to buy the overpriced houses off their developer/builder buddies.

They are planning on giving up to 98% of the cost of a new house to first time buyers, up to the maximum of 300,000 euro.

What this does is;

1, keeps the price of new houses from falling so that the builders/developers wont lose any more money.

2. Helps shift the empty houses built in random places around the country with no amenities or infrastructure.

Never mind eh.. it will keep the brown envelopes going around for another few years.

We do indeed get the politicians we deserve.

I am emigrating.

galah · 14-10-2008 6:14pm

Oshare Bones wrote: »

Why do people think dole "spongers" as you call them are getting loads from this budget? The jobseekers allowance/benefit is remaining exactly the same. So with the increase in VAT, petrol, motor tax, etc. they are actually coming out worse than before the budget.

Edit- as far as I can see, it's only carers allowance/benefit, state pension and maternity benefit increasing.

not exactly true - they're tightening the eligibility criteria based on PRSI contributions - you now have to have worked for 2 years paying PRSI to be able to claim jobseekers benefit etc...and they're changing the payout duration for some cases as well...;

In respect of new claimants, the required underlying number of paid contributions is being increased from 52 to 104 for entitlement to Jobseeker’s Benefit, Illness Benefit and Health & Safety Benefit;

In respect of new claimants, 13 paid contributions will, inter alia, be required in the relevant tax year etc. for entitlement to Jobseeker’s Benefit (in line with the relevant requirement that currently applies for Illness Benefit);

In respect of new claimants, higher earnings thresholds for graduated rates of Jobseeker’s Benefit, Illness Benefit and Health and Safety Benefit will apply;

In respect of claimants of less than six months on Budget day and in respect of all new claimants from Budget day, the maximum duration of Jobseeker’s Benefit will now be 12 months (from 15 months) where the person has, inter alia, 260 or more paid social insurance contributions

In respect of claimants of less than three months on Budget day and in respect of all new claimants from Budget day, the maximum duration of Jobseekers Benefit will now be 9 months (from 12 months) where the person has, inter alia, less than 260 paid contributions;

In respect of new claimants, the duration of entitlement to Illness Benefit will be limited to two years;

source: http://www.budget.gov.ie/2009/budgetsummary09.html

4zn76tysfajdxp · 14-10-2008 6:18pm

I'm scared...

ongarite · 14-10-2008 6:20pm

caoibhin wrote: »

What it means is that the government is going to take the place of the corrupt banks and give loans to young people to buy the overpriced houses off their developer/builder buddies.

They are planning on giving up to 98% of the cost of a new house to first time buyers, up to the maximum of 300,000 euro.

What this does is;

1, keeps the price of new houses from falling so that the builders/developers wont lose any more money.

2. Helps shift the empty houses built in random places around the country with no amenities or infrastructure.

Never mind eh.. it will keep the brown envelopes going around for another few years.

We do indeed get the politicians we deserve.

I am emigrating.

Agree 100%. It means basically no house will now drop below 300K which is still scandalous money as the average haven't a clue wanna be young buyer will walk in with government backed 100% mortgage.

Cool_CM · 14-10-2008 6:21pm

Time to book flights back to germany methinks

Caoimhín · 14-10-2008 6:24pm

Beckett Bumpy Self-consciousness wrote: »

I'm scared...

You should be.
This appears to be a scrap for the last of the spoils from the last decade of prosperity.

All the usual suspects have benefited today and once again its the ordinary working people who have lost out.

Quazzie · 14-10-2008 6:24pm

I've worked it out. between increased petrol costs, increased car tax, and employment levy's, and the higher unemplyment benefit, combined with the ridiculous cost of childminding, I am making a massive €35 per weekbyt having a job versus being on the dole. Thats less than a euro per hour that I actually work. The goverment just keeps screwing me right over.

Before anyone jumps up saying anything I work in a secure job making a decent average wage, but its getting incredibly hard to get up in the morning for €7 per day.

gerbilgranny · 14-10-2008 6:36pm

Caoimhín O'Caoláin made me laugh when asked for his view:

'This is a budget for emigration, and the Minister will be meeting you in the Departure Lounge, waiting to take more money from you for the privilege of leaving' (well something like that).

CiaranC · 14-10-2008 6:38pm

Quazzie2002 wrote: »

I've worked it out. between increased petrol costs, increased car tax, and employment levy's, and the higher unemplyment benefit, combined with the ridiculous cost of childminding, I am making a massive €35 per weekbyt having a job versus being on the dole. Thats less than a euro per hour that I actually work. The goverment just keeps screwing me right over.

Before anyone jumps up saying anything I work in a secure job making a decent average wage, but its getting incredibly hard to get up in the morning for €7 per day.

I dont get it. You think childminding and car tax and petrol are somehow free when you are on the dole?

Eoin · 14-10-2008 6:38pm

gerbilgranny wrote: »

Caoimhín O'Caoláin made me laugh when asked for his view:

'This is a budget for emigration, and the Minister will be meeting you in the Departure Lounge, waiting to take more money from you for the privilege of leaving' (well something like that).

At least they won't be wearing a balaclava.

The AH Budget discussion thread.

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