Advice for someone thinking of returning to do the H-Dip

SD1979

Hi Folks,

I will try to be as concise as possible;). I am currently considering to go back to Uni to do either the H-Dip or a PhD (I'll save the PhD questions for the other forum!)& it would be great to get some advice off current teachers or people who have recently completed the DIP. I did a a degree in History and Sociology followed by a Masters. From what I know this would qualify me to teach History (duh!) and CSPE.

I was thinking of applying before this December to start next year and I have a couple of questions.

I am in my late 20's and while I think I would enjoy teaching I really do not want to go back & do it if the employment prospects are so poor. From what I read on here it is very difficult to find positions, would people generally agree with this (keeping in mind my subjects)?Is it a case of finish the work-experience time and then you are subbing from place to place?

Like I said I am in my late 20's, is it too late to consider going back to do it? What is the age demographic in DIP classes these days? Do you think the PAC would take these kind of things into consideration?


I would appreciate any feedback.

Thanks everyone

oliviah

Most people in the dip would be in their late 20s, many older still. The NUIs go on points.

I have history and have taught 2 classes for a month in it in total since I graduated from dip 3 years ago. The schools I sub in have unqualified teachers and teachers of other subjects teaching it to fill up their hours. Even though most schools teach it to all students in the junior cycle it is only given 2-3 periods a week, so one history teacher can teach more class groups then say an Irish or maths teacher who might have 5 periods per week with each group. In short, the job prospects are not good for History teachers.

TheDriver

Job prospects are not good for any teachers bar maybe some niche sections. Its a tough call but lots are thinking of going teaching due to it now being a great job which means little or no jobs, coupled with bigger class sizes etc then there will be even less jobs.

sunflower!

you would be in the same situation as me then when you finish,
i did a history and politics degree and history masters. i dont have a job ( not from lack of trying) and im finding it difficult to even find subbing :mad: despite being able to reach 3 counties from where i live and following all the usual suggestions (going into the school in person to hand in cv's etc) however i love teaching and am willing to hold out for another year at least and hope for the best,

i was also trying to decide between a phd and the dip and i was offered a place for a phd and for the hdip and i found it a very difficult decision

the advise i got at the time from the history dept was that a hdip is a really good qualification - basically its one year, it would only help you when trying to get a lecturing position ( proving your ability to teach not just as an academic) and it could help you support yourself while you do your phd subbing when you can, helping to get you tutorial groups etc.


i decided to do the dip and shelve the phd for a while and at least give it a go

hope this helped

SD1979

Thanks for the reply's,

wow - still not an easy choice!
So Oliviah - are you actually working another job outside of teaching or can you survive on the subbing hours?
How does subbing actually work? How much do you get paid for it?

Sunflower - you seem to be in a very similar position to myself and its a really good point about the Dip being useful for subbing while you do your PhD. However - I guess couldnt you sub without the Dip - am I correct in saying that? Unqualified people can do it?
Also I know its just a year - but essentially its 2 years yeah? A year doing the coarse in Uni and then a school year doing the probationary term to get 100hrs of teaching experience.

From what I see - essentially there are no jobs in what I could teach and the best I could hope to get would be subbing (if that) - although I like the idea of it helping out while doing a PhD - finances are hard to come by for PhD studies in the Humanities.:mad:

Thanks again lads...

TheDriver

you can sub til the cows come home but its only glorified casual labour and everyone gets sick of it. Pay is alright, just google it. Its only 1 year and its yours AFAIK but its expensive, last time I looked, It cost nearly 5000 for the year which is a lot of money if you are not going to stay at teaching.

SD1979

Driver -
Im not sure what you mean about the 5'000, you talking about fees to do the DIP? I presume thats if you dont qualify for a council grant etc...which as far as I know means your fees are paid.
Appears to be worthwhile doing it but if you are hoping to come out and find full-time employment within even 18 months then its time for a realty check, especially with the subjects I would have. Im veering towards just going back to do the PhD - have a supervisor who agreed to take me on.:D

oliviah

You won't be able to apply for a grant as you already have a masters.

I'm scraping by, and as the budget has just announced that sub teachers are to be gone by jan 09 I'm panicking.

I know other people who go weeks without work.

SD1979

Wow - thats true!
I didnt realise that - you are definitely now selling it to me.
The thing I dont realise is - the PAC fill up all the places so every year there are more and more teachers qualifying making it even more difficult. PhD is sounding more and more likely

oliviah

SD1979 wrote: »

Wow - thats true!
I didnt realise that - you are definitely now selling it to me.
The thing I dont realise is - the PAC fill up all the places so every year there are more and more teachers qualifying making it even more difficult. PhD is sounding more and more likely

Yep, there's a glut. I felt awful in September as yet another group of principals buddies came through the door just out of their degrees looking to build up their teaching points for the dip. Awful, because of all the qualified people out there without work, and awful because we were telling them that most of the teachers 15yrs older then them, and who taught them, aren't permanent or even on full hours.

That said, actually teaching a class is great.

Rosita

oliviah wrote: »

I'm scraping by, and as the budget has just announced that sub teachers are to be gone by jan 09 I'm panicking.

What is this? How on earth are they going to teach children if sub teachers are not allowed?

Rosita

SD1979 wrote: »

Wow - thats true!
I didnt realise that - you are definitely now selling it to me.
The thing I dont realise is - the PAC fill up all the places so every year there are more and more teachers qualifying making it even more difficult. PhD is sounding more and more likely

More and more teachers qualifying may not necessarily make things a lot more difficult as presumably there will be varying levels of employability among graduates depending on their subjects. I have a feeling that due to the nature of the PGDE application process that there may be many applying for teaching who are simply unrealistic about the value of their subjects in second-level schools.

In your own case, the opportunity cost of doing the PGDE may not be enormous, if a Phd is the main alternative. It depends, I suppose, on the subjective value you place on the Phd, but you could have your PGDE and a fair effort made to break through in teaching before you'd even be up and running to a serious extent in a Phd, which offers no guarantees at the end of it either.

oliviah

Apparently they're only going to pay for a sub if there's a sick cert absence. Even on the first day. I don't know where that leaves day trip cover, football match cover etc. I can't see many people forking over €60 to a doctor when they have a cold or a one day tummy bug.

If it's long term certified then there will be cover, but as you all know schools can't function without people being called in on short notice.

Where does that leave health and safety regulations?

http://www.into.ie/ROI/ More info here.

TheDriver

5000 is the Dip fees to the college, very steep and most people don't get a grant. Dare I say without starting another debate, there should be no grants for the Dip because when I did it, a good few on the course had the atitude that its free so why not do it whereas they should take it off your salary when you start working and I had to save up through work like anyone else to pay for it when I did it. Anyway, apart from that, subs are being cut down as we all have s&s hours lying idle never used up so itsonly fair I suppose than paying us and a sub to do same work.
Its a horrible time to get into teaching, imagine being offer 8 hours a week in a school for the year and people are queueing up for this.

TheDriver

oliviah wrote: »

Apparently they're only going to pay for a sub if there's a sick cert absence. Even on the first day. I don't know where that leaves day trip cover, football match cover etc. I can't see many people forking over €60 to a doctor when they have a cold or a one day tummy bug.

If it's long term certified then there will be cover, but as you all know schools can't function without people being called in on short notice.

Where does that leave health and safety regulations?

http://www.into.ie/ROI/ More info here.

AFAIK, teachers can still take sick days without a note but the school has to use internal cover through the s&s to cover it, it doesn't make much difference to the teacher.

Toto Wolfcastle

TheDriver wrote: »

AFAIK, teachers can still take sick days without a note but the school has to use internal cover through the s&s to cover it, it doesn't make much difference to the teacher.

That's fair enough, but what happens when more than one teacher is out sick without a cert? (On the first day?)

SD1979

Hmm so it seems that soon even subbing will be difficult to come by - at least if what you say is correct. I wonder what are the no. of teachers that find employment within a year of finishing the DIP? Is there anywhere you get the stats on that...the Dept Of Education being obvious....but anybody have a specific link for stats like that??

Rosita - I understand what you are saying about 3 years doing PhD vs 3 years looking for a job - I would personally prefer to be studying/researching something I am interested in, doing some Uni classes on the side than floating from subbing job to subbing job for 3 years.... that thought would depress me - I would rather take my chances in the academic world of Universities

TheDriver

You'll never get good stats on that because colleges want people to think the Dip is getting people employment as they want to keep their places high. Also, someone getting a days subbing is a positive sign on the stats so would be very hard to quantify how many got hours that you could live on. Remember a shortage of teacher sin subject X doesn't mean theres loads of hours in that subject either, just lots of hours spilt over schools etc.

forgodssake22

I am thinking of doing my hdip in either England or Australia instead of at home. In doing so would i be qualified to teach in Ireland?

What extra irish exams would i need to do when i return to teach at home?
Would i have problems getting work seeing as i qualified abroad?

Thanks

TheDriver

ask the teaching council as everywhere is different, they will only give an answer based on your exact Dip course

forgodssake22

cheers.