Foreign Nationals flying in for the day to sign on the dole

merlie

KhanTheMan wrote: »

I met a guy who used to live beside me today in the post office. Hes from Poland and moved home about 6 months ago. He told me he was here with his wife for the day.

Now the best bit. They were signing on collecting their money. I was shocked and it showed and he explained it to me.

They have 3 children and are saying they are living with his brother who still lives here. They went home to Poland and he has a job there. This was his last time signing on but his wife is going to sign on saying she was left in Ireland with the kids. She'll just come over here for the day whenever she needs to sign on on the cheap flights. Even if this is once a week (and im sure its less often than that) it will pay her to do it. And childrens allowance etc too.

Still seeing my shocked face he said that he knows lots of people doing the very same thing, that it was normal.

Unbelievable.

They should be reported. It doesn't matter where they are from or who they are, cheating is still cheating which ever way you look at it.

I must say he was either very brave or very foolish to tell you what was going on. The fact he trusted you with this information. But no matter, it still is cheating and should be reported. I would also like to mention but it is not part of this thread, is all the money going out of this economy via foreign or asylum seekers working over here and sending money back to their respective country via money transfer orders and nothing is coming into our economy or being put in. No wonder we are in trouble.

mollypop

How dare anyone say that foreign nationals are more likely to commit welfare fraud! It's not like there are any figures on this, say for example saying that at least in one area they're 8 times more likely! :rolleyes:

.7pc of Irish nationals and 13.9pc non-Irish nationals were involved in social welfare fraud last year.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/0313/1205104710922.html

It's not like they're costing us say millions! :rolleyes:

A major cross-Border investigation between Irish and British authorities has uncovered widespread social welfare fraud by asylum seekers and other foreign nationals may have cost the State tens of millions of euro

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2006/0911/1156791558637.html

I don't believe you're silly stories, this isn't really happening.

Two small investigations into social welfare fraud by foreign nationals had both detected a false-claim rate of about 10%, he claimed. If applied nationally, O’Flynn said, this meant it was “quite possible that there are more than 6,000 people who are not residing in Ireland who are claiming social welfare”.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/ireland/article5781087.ece


Shame on all of you, they're great people and we're as bad as them as figures clearly show!:o:o

ManFromAtlantis

i agree with molly. im sure there's some fraud going on , just like we have fraud also rselves'. is it any worse than someone doing nothing in the local authority and getting paid for it. no.

Victor_M

ManFromAtlantis wrote: »

i agree with molly. im sure there's some fraud going on , just like we have fraud also rselves'. is it any worse than someone doing nothing in the local authority and getting paid for it. no.

Actually , yes it is. I'd say we don't know the half of it (in fact I'm sure our great leaders don't know the half of it)

There's usually no smoke without fire.

The Saint

merlie wrote: »

I would also like to mention but it is not part of this thread, is all the money going out of this economy via foreign or asylum seekers working over here and sending money back to their respective country via money transfer orders and nothing is coming into our economy or being put in. No wonder we are in trouble.

Asylum seekers are not entitled to work here. I wish people would get their fact right before posting. Also people can do whatever the hell they want with their own money that they have legitmately earned. Remittances kept this country going during the 80's.

D.R cowboy

People don't try and be the hero's with the...I am not races sh**t "
Only when the foreigners go
home will Ireland be free, the same has applied in the past with the British
we need the IRA back and that will send them packing
Irish for Life!!!!

Mena

D.R cowboy wrote: »

People don't try and be the hero's with the...I am not races sh**t "
Only when the foreigners go
home will Ireland be free, the same has applied in the past with the British
we need the IRA back and that will send them packing
Irish for Life!!!!

rofl. Comedy quote of the day.

acontadino

D.R cowboy wrote: »

People don't try and be the hero's with the...I am not races sh**t "
Only when the foreigners go
home will Ireland be free, the same has applied in the past with the British
we need the IRA back and that will send them packing
Irish for Life!!!!

LOL..

pcardin

D.R cowboy wrote: »

People don't try and be the hero's with the...I am not races sh**t "
Only when the foreigners go
home will Ireland be free, the same has applied in the past with the British
we need the IRA back and that will send them packing
Irish for Life!!!!

LOL. You're funny! Maybe US also need something to make all irish go home. Maybe Australia,Canada, Germany and other countries also want you to go home. :eek:

NKtile

Ah seriously Victor.......

"Actually , yes it is. I'd say we don't know the half of it (in fact I'm sure our great leaders don't know the half of it)

There's usually no smoke without fire."

Is not uttering the above line prove positive of what people who are saying this scaremongering about foreigners is ludicrous?

'There's usually no smoke without fire ' sums up in one line the pointlessness of all the half truths , and "my mate told me the black lad down the road got an audi" thinking about all the foreigners on the scrounge!

Welfare fraud is fraud. Its not a racist , national issue.Evveryone got to stop blaming them from overseas. 250,000 Irish on the dole in the boom times.. they all not working at that time and happy to live on the under 200 euro a week? i think not, plenty worked as well:eek:

Stop fraud, sure. Blame it as a majority non irish problem, silly

Incidentally, you should see the number of people from overseas who have lived in ireland for 4/5 years plus who are turning up at social welfare offices looking for assistance,(after paying taxes and helping the country) to be informed that their Irish employers have either only partly paid or not paid their taxes(that were deducted from the worker's pay), therefore leaving them in serious trouble now as they cant get any state assistance, and their employers are long gone...Sadly there are bad 'uns in all societies...;)

pcardin

Agree with you NKtile

dr.bollocko

D.R cowboy wrote: »

People don't try and be the hero's with the...I am not races sh**t "
Only when the foreigners go
home will Ireland be free, the same has applied in the past with the British
we need the IRA back and that will send them packing
Irish for Life!!!!

Ohoho. Ahaha.
Banned.

Victor_M

NKtile wrote: »

Ah seriously Victor.......

"Actually , yes it is. I'd say we don't know the half of it (in fact I'm sure our great leaders don't know the half of it)

There's usually no smoke without fire."

Is not uttering the above line prove positive of what people who are saying this scaremongering about foreigners is ludicrous?

'There's usually no smoke without fire ' sums up in one line the pointlessness of all the half truths , and "my mate told me the black lad down the road got an audi" thinking about all the foreigners on the scrounge!

Welfare fraud is fraud. Its not a racist , national issue.Evveryone got to stop blaming them from overseas. 250,000 Irish on the dole in the boom times.. they all not working at that time and happy to live on the under 200 euro a week? i think not, plenty worked as well:eek:

Stop fraud, sure. Blame it as a majority non irish problem, silly

Incidentally, you should see the number of people from overseas who have lived in ireland for 4/5 years plus who are turning up at social welfare offices looking for assistance,(after paying taxes and helping the country) to be informed that their Irish employers have either only partly paid or not paid their taxes(that were deducted from the worker's pay), therefore leaving them in serious trouble now as they cant get any state assistance, and their employers are long gone...Sadly there are bad 'uns in all societies...;)

In fairness well said!

Welfare fraud is welfare fraud, the govt need to make (more of) an effort to weed it out. That includes the lazy paddy's who just don't feel like working.

Nodin

mollypop wrote: »

How dare anyone say that foreign nationals are more likely to commit welfare fraud!

Actually the thread was about people flying in to claim the scratcher. None of your articles seem to relate to that.

Secondly, the specific fraud you refer to there refers to claiming for children while resident in another EU state. Personally I'd like to know how Irish people resident herecould be measured against Foreign nationals for that specific fraud. Bi-location perhaps? Thus its logical that Foreign nationals will be the ones in the majority, as its a scam thats by almost definition confined to them.

radharc05

Agamemnon wrote: »

I'd be all in favour of this as long as it's only beautiful Polish women popping over here to defraud us. Male? GTFO! Old? GTFO! Ugly? GTFO! Fat? GTFO! Hot young Polish filly? Fáilte go hÉireann! My name's Agamemnon and I'll be your red carpet for today if you're wearing spiked high heels.

Ahhhh, well written fellow corkonian... (GTFO )

chrism2007

i just dont understand how they get away with it. ive friends who lost there jobs, signed on and they get letters telling them to be in the dole office the next day. how can a polish person living abroad get around that?


does anyone here actually work in the social welfare office that can give us a run down of how the system works? and let us know how they think they get away with it

redarmyblues

Welfare fraud is not easy, it is far far easier to diddle your VAT. Take it from one who knows.

mollypop

Nodin wrote: »

Actually the thread was about people flying in to claim the scratcher. None of your articles seem to relate to that.

Secondly, the specific fraud you refer to there refers to claiming for children while resident in another EU state. Personally I'd like to know how Irish people resident herecould be measured against Foreign nationals for that specific fraud. Bi-location perhaps? Thus its logical that Foreign nationals will be the ones in the majority, as its a scam thats by almost definition confined to them.

Well, actually the third article I quoted related to that specifically (about the 10% claiming not actually living in the country). I'm not going to argue over this, if there were 100 articles people would pick holes, there are all sorts of Irish & non Irish claiming welfare they're not entitled to. If I was Polish & working on a building site then lost my job, yeah I'd consider going back to Poland, getting someone to pick up my cheque every week and lodge it into my account & use it to supplement my income in Poland. I'm not blaming them, but I'm not about to deny it's happening either. It's the reason we abolished the direct payment in the first place, it was too easy for them:
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2008/0721/1216565492868.html
It's a start but it's not that much more difficult for them now.

merlie

The Saint wrote: »

Asylum seekers are not entitled to work here. I wish people would get their fact right before posting. Also people can do whatever the hell they want with their own money that they have legitmately earned. Remittances kept this country going during the 80's.

Yes I did get my facts straight, thank you. I have heard about this for a long time now and wanted to mention same. Although they are not legally entitled to work over here, there are people that do, who shouldnt. This is not the 80's any more. During the 80's there were very few foreign nationals working here on the scale that there are now. I know this because it is a fact as do other people. This is 2009 and not the 80's. A lot of money is leaving this country via foreign nationals working here. Go into any post office on any day and you can see them with wads of cash sending it abroad.

I feel there should be some levy on money leaving this country in that manner., so at least we would get some return back into the economy. I am not against foreign nationals working here.

chrism2007

merlie wrote: »

Yes I did get my facts straight, thank you. I have heard about this for a long time now and wanted to mention same. Although they are not legally entitled to work over here, there are people that do, who shouldnt. This is not the 80's any more. During the 80's there were very few foreign nationals working here on the scale that there are now. I know this because it is a fact as do other people. This is 2009 and not the 80's. A lot of money is leaving this country via foreign nationals working here. Go into any post office on any day and you can see them with wads of cash sending it abroad.

I feel there should be some levy on money leaving this country in that manner., so at least we would get some return back into the economy. I am not against foreign nationals working here.

how can you put a levy on money leaving the country? they have plenty of ways to send it.

only solution i see is giving people vouchers to spend in local shops rather than cash

NKtile

Merlie, Chrism,

What logic is there to what you are saying?

You earn money , you earn the right to spend it the way you want. Gambling, shopping, pissing it away down the boozer....it's nothing to do with you... the logic of hat you are saying is non existent. As has been pointed away many times, Ireland benefited for many years from money being sent home from Irish overseas. What you suggest, a lecy or somsuch, flies in the face of al international law, as well as logic. What right would anyone have for implenting such a levy? Do I have a right to suggest where your money should go? Cause, believe me, you have no right to say where mine should go:rolleyes:

kwestfan08

Could this fraud really be as rampant as people say it is? The price of a return filght for one person a month today (6/04/09) from Krakow to Dublin is €361.61 (figures from ryanair.ie and I picked Krakow as it was the only Polish city I could find). The point I'm making is I just can't see how it pays to come over just to lift the dole. I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion IMO.

merlie

NKtile wrote: »

Merlie, Chrism,

What logic is there to what you are saying?

You earn money , you earn the right to spend it the way you want. Gambling, shopping, pissing it away down the boozer....it's nothing to do with you... the logic of hat you are saying is non existent. As has been pointed away many times, Ireland benefited for many years from money being sent home from Irish overseas. What you suggest, a lecy or somsuch, flies in the face of al international law, as well as logic. What right would anyone have for implenting such a levy? Do I have a right to suggest where your money should go? Cause, believe me, you have no right to say where mine should go:rolleyes:

I am only speaking for myself and what I think with regards what has been said already.
The levy would be like, say for every E100 leaving the country via money transfer orders through the post office or other outlets, there should be a E10 tax for that. You know those yellow and black transfer orders that a lot of people use to send money abroad while working in this country.

shezzie01

to nodin

i am formally (shezzie)my sourse as you labelled is the fact that my job is paying out these social welfare payments thats why i can give facts not fiction...that why i know what i pay is what i pay...blah blah..you get my point even if i have ahad a few pints yeah...someone must do...explain it to nodin pls.....:)

Mena

merlie wrote: »

I am only speaking for myself and what I think with regards what has been said already.
The levy would be like, say for every E100 leaving the country via money transfer orders through the post office or other outlets, there should be a E10 tax for that. You know those yellow and black transfer orders that a lot of people use to send money abroad while working in this country.

You'll have every single, bar none, multi-national company exiting the country the very second anyone implements anything as silly as this. Can you imagine asking Microsoft to pay an additional 10 euro tax on every hundred euro they send, out of all the millions and millions?

Think it through please.

Or are you suggesting one law for the corporates and one for the common worker? We have all seen exactly where that gets us.

kwestfan08 wrote: »

Could this fraud really be as rampant as people say it is? The price of a return filght for one person a month today (6/04/09) from Krakow to Dublin is €361.61 (figures from ryanair.ie and I picked Krakow as it was the only Polish city I could find). The point I'm making is I just can't see how it pays to come over just to lift the dole. I think the whole thing has been blown out of proportion IMO.

I pointed this out, in detail, a couple of hundred posts ago and it was essentially ignored, because you know, the foreign nationals have access to government supplied swan powered warp speed and stuff. No Ryanair for them.

bob123456

Why would people bother flying in?

Just get a mate to collect at the post office and sign at the SW office.

The SW staff are not going to recognize everybody, esp now with so many people signing.

This is why we need a photo id or finger scan for welfare.

shezzie01

to mena


they just dont get the swans eh??:rolleyes: of course it is worth there while free money always is,,,,krakow the only part of poland hhhmm,....not...eduacate yourself people...personally got to krakow for bout 40euro give or take a euro...:D

kwestfan08

shezzie01 wrote: »

to mena


they just dont get the swans eh??:rolleyes: of course it is worth there while free money always is,,,,krakow the only part of poland hhhmm,....not...eduacate yourself people...personally got to krakow for bout 40euro give or take a euro...:D

Tell me how you got to Krakow for €40 when taxes and charges alone are close to €100.

Mena

shezzie01 wrote: »

to mena


they just dont get the swans eh??:rolleyes: of course it is worth there while free money always is,,,,krakow the only part of poland hhhmm,....not...eduacate yourself people...personally got to krakow for bout 40euro give or take a euro...:D

Once a week? Try booking that online with ryanair for a year or so, g'wan then. This is the most puerile and ridiculous argument I have ever heard. If people stopped to think it through logically for 10 seconds they'd shut the hell up.

Now getting a friend to collect it for you, that I could believe almost, however I have no clue what/if any checks are done at the PO when collecting.

Heres the original post I did. Im sorry, but it just does not seem economically viable to me.

Mena wrote: »

Right so, I just checked Ryanair. Since dole is generally dished out on a Wednesday and you have to collect it from a post office, I booked an inward flight from Prague to Dublin on the 18th. Only thing is inward lands at 12pm and outward leaves at 10am. So, seeing as my flux capacitor is currently running low on juice, I had to book an outbound flight the following day, Thursday. Oops, that's full, so Friday it is.

Luckily these flights only cost me 187.40. Now I need someplace to sleep for two days, and food to eat. But lets assume I can sleep in St Stephens Green and cook a swan that will last 2 nights. Sorted.

Hmm, what about a taxi fare? I suppose I could walk from the airport into the designated post office... I hope I specified one close to the airport when I signed on or I'll be walking all day. No matter, I have 2 days to kill until my outbound flight anyway, so walking all day and only making the post office the following morning is hardly an issue.

So, how smart am I! I've ripped off the Irish government to the tune of 205 Euro this week, and made a tidy profit of 17.60 Euro. Bully for me. That's 915.00 Euro per year I'll be earning, pity I have to waste 3 days a week traveling to get it.

Ah well.

Nodin

shezzie01 wrote: »

to mena


they just dont get the swans eh??:rolleyes: of course it is worth there while free money always is,,,,krakow the only part of poland hhhmm,....not...eduacate yourself people...personally got to krakow for bout 40euro give or take a euro...:D

Back under the bridge with the swans, your powers hold no sway here.