Foreign Nationals flying in for the day to sign on the dole

Fat_Fingers

CiaranC wrote: »

Im starting to think there is some kind of agitation going on in AH with all these anti-foreign national threads these days. Either that or weve turned into the Isle of Dogs BNP-land over night.

Hey crazy dude, If you had any contact with BNP you would know not to compare debate here with what BNP stands for and what their "activists" do on the ground. I lived in east London and have seen some nasty sh*t. Once even had to run for my life myself after been chased by BPN love brigade.
So less of that please.

SWL

wildsaffy wrote: »

And the people that whinge the loudest forget that many families survived on the money that was sent "back home" from the Irish that were working in Liverpool, London, Boston etc etc. And the Irish have done their fair share of scamming in those countries as well, as its well known.

Nobody on this thread has said any different, but just because an Irish citizen raise a question in relation to a non national which could very well be justified instead of it being treated on its merits its immediately dismissed as racism, and the usual defence in this case not the appropriate defence is Irish in other countries" "they send money home " etc.

On a side note the money Irish people send home was in the 1950 & 1960 when there was a trade war between Ireland and United Kingdom. It’s not a modern phenomenon. A lot of people assume it was.

dublinario

wildsaffy wrote: »

A criminal is a criminal in what ever country they live in.

I don't mind the foreign nationals flying in to sign the dole, so long as they leave with sackfuls of leprechaun and 'Oirish' memorabilia on each trip. I'm very worried that shops like Carrolls will be the real victims of this recession. I don't want to live in an Ireland where I can walk through Dublin without being accosted by an endless loop of Raglan Road.

pcardin

SWL wrote: »

Nobody on this thread has said any different, but just because an Irish citizen raise a question in relation to a non national which could very well be justified instead of it being treated on its merits its immediately dismissed as racism, and the usual defence in this case not the appropriate defence is Irish in other countries" "they send money home " etc.

On a side note the money Irish people send home was in the 1950 & 1960 when there was a trade war between Ireland and United Kingdom. It’s not a modern phenomenon. A lot of people assume it was.

You are poisoning yourself with this. don't you think so?

thurlesbeg

fair play to them we couldn.t wait to get them in to take our jobs while we paid them ****e money and now we crib about them scamming us. all that stuff about eaten bread

SWL

pcardin wrote: »

You are poisoning yourself with this. don't you think so?

You need to be specific:D

ojewriej

I haven't been on boards for a while; it's funny to see how nothing changes.

few things:

It's been a while since average wage in poland was 200E. It's much more now.

And you can fly to poland for about 50 quid, so if you are determined it does make sense to live there and sign on here every once in a while. Same way to some people it makes sense to spend 24 hours on a bus rather than 3 hours on a plane, just to save 30 euro.

Some poles are scamming the welfare, i.e. collecting money here and living in Poland, i talked to them about it, and it's definitely doable.

However, you should focus your anger on the system that allows them to do it. Where there is free money to be made, there will always be chancers to do it, both foreign and Irish. If you leave your wallet open, you should blame yourself if your money is missing.

Welfare fraud is a way life for many people, and being Irish doesn't make it ok.

And TV3, I'm an Eastern European living here for for almost 8 years now. I enjoyed ruining your country by working and paying taxes.

SWL

thurlesbeg wrote: »

fair play to them we couldn.t wait to get them in to take our jobs while we paid them ****e money and now we crib about them scamming us. all that stuff about eaten bread

I have a problem with scammers don't matter where they are from Irish or other wise - next time a relative needs a hospital bed or some other public service and its not available think of all the hard earned taxes going to somebody who is NOT entitled to them.

My problem with this thread is when the OP began this thread, he is called racist and non nationals instead of being outraged that they may be tarred with the one brush are to busy telling the OP that he is racist, and the referring to Irish people in other countries etc etc. My interpretation is that he was annoyed that somebody would openly cheat the system, I agree with him, money is tight and we have enough leaches in society all ready we cannot as a country afford more.

SWL

ojewriej wrote: »

I haven't been on boards for a while; it's funny to see how nothing changes.

few things:

It's been a while since average wage in poland was 200E. It's much more now.

And you can fly to poland for about 50 quid, so if you are determined it does make sense to live there and sign on here every once in a while. Same way to some people it makes sense to spend 24 hours on a bus rather than 3 hours on a plane, just to save 30 euro.

Some poles are scamming the welfare, i.e. collecting money here and living in Poland, i talked to them about it, and it's definitely doable.

However, you should focus your anger on the system that allows them to do it. Where there is free money to be made, there will always be chancers to do it, both foreign and Irish. If you leave your wallet open, you should blame yourself if your money is missing.

Welfare fraud is a way life for many people, and being Irish doesn't make it ok.

And TV3, I'm an Eastern European living here for for almost 8 years now. I enjoyed ruining your country by working and paying taxes.

Yep the system has a lot to do with it - but what would happen if somebody was refused because they may be a suspension they are scamming the system?

As already stated several times I as a large taxpayer and very hard worker have a problem with tax fraud don’t matter who doing it. My ancillary problem to this thread is that because a non national was in the firing line the usually PC bulls it take over.

Taxes need to be paid irrespective of where we work I lived around the worlds and paid taxes always felt I came away with more than I gave in terms of opportunities and life experience, and as a result of that never looked for a tax rebate

But I agree the system needs a total over haul, there is far too much social welfare fraud happening at all levels in this country.

ojewriej

SWL wrote: »

As already stated several times I as a large taxpayer and very hard worker have a problem with tax fraud don’t matter who doing it. My ancillary problem to this thread is that because a non national was in the firing line the usually PC bulls it take over.

The thread was aimed at foreigners, hence the response. Fraudster is a fraudster, no matter where he is from.

SWL wrote: »

Taxes need to be paid irrespective of where we work I lived around the worlds and paid taxes always felt I came away with more than I gave in terms of opportunities and life experience, and as a result of that never looked for a tax rebate

Same here. Don't like being blamed for ruining the country by being born somewhere else. Ich bin ein Dubliner.

SWL wrote: »

But I agree the system needs a total over haul, there is far too much social welfare fraud happening at all levels in this country.

My point exactly. Focusing on foreigners is missing the point entirely.

Cuddlesworth

ojewriej wrote: »

Welfare fraud is a way life for many people, and being Irish doesn't make it ok.

I don't think the issue is that they are Foreign Nationals, I think the issue is that the system is so screwed that you can scam it without even being in the country. I think at that point you should just give up because clearly there are no checks and balances.

ojewriej

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I don't think the issue is that they are Foreign Nationals, I think the issue is that the system is so screwed that you can scam it without even being in the country. I think at that point you should just give up because clearly there are no checks and balances.

Fair enough, I agree.

I just don't see some posters logic i.e. being foreign somehow makes abusing the system worse. Sponging is pathetic and despicable, no matter where you from and where you're doing it.

IIMII

ojewriej wrote: »

Focusing on foreigners is missing the point entirely.

Is it? Queues of poor unfortunates shuffling in a slow moving queue to collect their labour money was a thing of the past with electronic payments until this story broke.. So some poor unfortunate people living here struggle to make ends meet, queueing for hours whilst jet-setting welfare tourists fly in for a holiday and a pay-off, before returning to their homes in other lower of cost living countries is ok?

ojewriej

IIMII wrote: »

Is it? Queues of poor unfortunates shuffling in a slow moving queue to collect their labour money was a thing of the past with electronic payments until this story broke.. So some poor unfortunate people living here struggle to make ends meet, queueing for hours whilst jet-setting welfare tourists fly in for a holiday and a pay-off, before returning to their homes in other lower of cost living countries is ok?

Poor unfortunate people struggling to make ends meet - OK

Irish scroungers who never worked a day in their life and made collecting welfare their career - not OK

jet-setting welfare tourists flying in for a holiday and a pay-off, before returning to their homes in other lower of cost living countries - not OK

See my point?

If you don't, let me ask you this - if your house gets burgled, will it make you feel better that it was burgled by an Irish criminal rather than some Eastern European?

IIMII

ojewriej wrote: »

If you don't, let me ask you this - if your house gets burgled, will it make you feel better that it was burgled by an Irish criminal rather than some Eastern European?

Better chance of catching the criminal that doesn't jet off home to another jurisdiction after the crime. It's not even just the money, it's the long term effect this may have on the country in terms of Irish people coming home possibly not being entitled to the dole, and the short term effect where queues of newly redundant people living in Ireland are forced to queue without dignity like cattle. Going back to you analogy, the queues are a direct response to the 'East European burglars' rather than the local 'burglars' - you can track and trace the local ones, the non-Ireland based one are beyond the pale so to to speak, and causing our welfare system to operate in an outdated and antiquated fashion. You'll always get chancers, but these externally based ones are causing disproportionate hardship to every person on the dole

ojewriej

I don't agree.

IIMII wrote: »

Better chance of catching the criminal that doesn't jet off home to another jurisdiction after the crime.

Regular criminal - fair enough. But welfare fraudster - I would have thought that by leaving Ireland constantly he would be easier to catch. Or at least it would be easier to make the scam impossible.

IIMII wrote: »

It's not even just the money, it's the long term effect this may have on the country in terms of Irish people coming home possibly not being entitled to the dole, and the short term effect where queues of newly redundant people living in Ireland are forced to queue without dignity like cattle.

How is that? I'm not sure whether we are still talking about foreigners living abroad, or just foreigners in general

IIMII wrote: »

Going back to you analogy, the queues are a direct response to the 'East European burglars' rather than the local 'burglars' - you can track and trace the local ones, the non-Ireland based one are beyond the pale so to to speak, and causing our welfare system to operate in an outdated and antiquated fashion.

Or maybe the outdated system makes the scams possible to start with? And i don't buy the argument about tracking and tracing local ones - there are families here for whom living on the dole is a life choice for years.

IIMII wrote: »

You'll always get chancers, but these externally based ones are causing disproportionate hardship to every person on the dole

How so?

wildsaffy

Just crawled home from a VAT seminar to learn how my hard earned euros will be taken by the government and at what points.

On top of everything else going out, it seems like curried swan will soon be on the menu.

I don't really mind; if we have to feel the pain to pull this country through then we should all muck in and do it together. So I will continue to start work at 8am and finish late in the evening and try and pay into the system as required too.

Right now tax fraud / jet setting scammers / dole scroungers / professional dole scroungers / professional whingers does not look quite so humorous in the cold light of day.

I suggest a system of making "national" work available for people on the dole so that they (a) do not lose their self respect (b) gain their self respect if they never had it (c) have worthwhile work to do under that system so that they can contribute to the mix. That way no-one will have time to fly anywhere to collect money.

The M3 still needs completion.

p.s. the focus is on those scamming at the lower end; don't forget the bigger scams taking place at the "higher" end....

Heineken Helen

These days there are also some quite clever people on the dole... and there are plenty of people who WANT to work... why not set up several focus groups comprising of these people and perhaps, between them, they can come up with maybe some business plan of their own and the government will help them every step of the way... or yes, doing anything useful. I know if I were asked to be involved in something like that I'd jump at the chance... even if it were only minimum wage... it would be challenging and exciting... rather than just leaving everybody to fight this alone:(

IIMII

ojewriej wrote: »

...

We've enough in the way of shananigans going on here at all levels in society without adding imported shananigans to it too. The reality is that payments to bank accounts were stopped after it was realised that there is a welfare tourism going on. Hence people queueing on streets in all weather conditions. Forgive me if that angers me

K-9

IIMII wrote: »

We've enough in the way of shananigans going on here at all levels in society without adding imported shananigans to it too. The reality is that payments to bank accounts were stopped after it was realised that there is a welfare tourism going on. Hence people queueing on streets in all weather conditions. Forgive me if that angers me

Welfare tourism is easily solved, it has been repeatedly pointed out on this thread. Just compare SW and Customs notes, if the bleeding heart liberals would shut up.

Long term unemployed who have never worked a day in their lives can also be easily targeted.

People queueing on all streets in all weathers because of welfare tourism is a tad simplistic , you are blaming long welfare queues on welfare tourism solely, the "Shenanigans here at all levels in society" to quote your goodself seems to be forgotten.

Signing on at a public exchange is a good thing, SW Tourism or not. What is that bad about it, barring waiting in a queue?

IIMII

Yeah, you are right. But not paying into bank accounts is as direct result of welfare tourism. Ok the jobs are gone for one reason. But having to queue for cash payments like in times gone by is another. I drove past my local community welfare office last week or the week before and there was a huge queue outside it. There is enough in the system to leave a sour taste in anay claiments mouth without added hassle. I didn't know that that's what that particular building was until that moment. The point I am trying to make, perhaps clumsily is the jet-set welfare tourism problem is an added hassle which to counteract is bring social welfare payments back to a manner similar to the way they were made in that scene in the Commitments.

Its an extra hassle we (as in those claiming social welfare in this country) could do without, and the measures taken to fight it are inconvienencing everyone on the dole. I don't care if foreigners claiming the dole doe so from here - I do if they are living (and possible working) abroad and doing so

K-9

IIMII wrote: »

Yeah, you are right. But not paying into bank accounts is as direct result of welfare tourism. Ok the jobs are gone for one reason. But having to queue for cash payments like in times gone by is another. I drove past my local community welfare office last week or the week before and there was a huge queue outside it. There is enough in the system to leave a sour taste in anay claiments mouth without added hassle. I didn't know that that's what that particular building was until that moment. The point I am trying to make, perhaps clumsily is the jet-set welfare tourism problem is an added hassle which to counteract is bring social welfare payments back to a manner similar to the way they were made in that scene in the Commitments.

Its an extra hassle we (as in those claiming social welfare in this country) could do without, and the measures taken to fight it are inconvienencing everyone on the dole. I don't care if foreigners claiming the dole doe so from here - I do if they are living (and possible working) abroad and doing so

Everybody should sign on every week, regardless of nationality. Why not?

I hate queues too, but such is life.

snubbleste

Dept. of Social Welfare has announced that people will now have to show photo ID when claiming dole payments at the post office from today, unless clerks know the claimants

This is a direct result of welfare fraud and the minister was on the wireless this morning pointing out these were mostly claimants who had left the country or those who had someone else signing/collecting for them

The Department of Social & Family affairs said in a statement that more than 10% of Social Welfare claimants investigated in a targeted spot check have had their payments suspended.
The Department said the vast majority of those whose payments were suspended were non-Irish nationals. The Department is introducing stricter identity checks in Post Offices throughout the country for people collecting Social Welfare payments.
Minister Mary Hanafin said tighter security checks were necessary as part of the crackdown on those claiming a jobseeker payment but not resident in the state.
'People legitimately collecting a social welfare payment should be able to produce valid photographic ID, such as a Driving Licence, Passport or National Identity card. Staff working in Post Offices have to be satisfied that they are giving the right payment to the right person,' she said. http://www.rte.ie/news/2009/0406/welfare.html

IIMII

Now that's fair enough, the massive queues out in the rain I still don't agree with though I know why it has to be organised like that

Nodin

IIMII wrote: »

Now that's fair enough, the massive queues out in the rain I still don't agree with though I know why it has to be organised like that

Sometimes one would have been forgiven there was a policy of creating resentment, so people would try and scam the system, so they could be caught and cut off.

(I should add as a caveat that my brief liason with the scratcher and things related was 19-20 years ago, so things may have changed)

galah

snubbleste wrote: »

Dept. of Social Welfare has announced that people will now have to show photo ID when claiming dole payments at the post office from today, unless clerks know the claimants

This is a direct result of welfare fraud and the minister was on the wireless this morning pointing out these were mostly claimants who had left the country or those who had someone else signing/collecting for them

I am baffled that it took them this long to implement this simple check.
And am even more surprised that it was previously possible to pretty much collect payments for just anyone...

Highsider

As above unbelieveable that you could collect money without a photo ID. Shows just how foolish some of the leaders in the country are. Just imagine how much money this would have saved over the last few years. IMO you should have to sign on everyday if you want the dole anyway's.

Heineken Helen

K-9 wrote: »

Everybody should sign on every week, regardless of nationality. Why not?

I hate queues too, but such is life.

I don't think there are enough buildings or enough people working or enough time in the day for everybody to sign on every week... although I guess it would create some jobs

If it were to please people, I'd quite happily sign on every week... it's every two weeks here in England anyway and, after a certain amount of time, I'd to sign on every week for six weeks and also attend a weekly course (although it was every day for the first week).

shezzie

yeah thankfully they brought in that id as manditory will make the job much easier now thankfully - though must say if i had any suspicion of anyone i would always look for it anyway - i think they should put the photo on the card though aswell like a national id type of card - you cannot be strict enough on this - there is too much welfare fraud causing the country and its tax paying people way too much - tomorrow should be interesting though

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Highsider wrote: »

As above unbelieveable that you could collect money without a photo ID. Shows just how foolish some of the leaders in the country are. Just imagine how much money this would have saved over the last few years. IMO you should have to sign on everyday if you want the dole anyway's.

Some people put little or no thought into their posts.

How exactly would this help? If anything it would cause more trouble and more money...

ojewriej wrote: »

Regular criminal - fair enough. But welfare fraudster - I would have thought that by leaving Ireland constantly he would be easier to catch. Or at least it would be easier to make the scam impossible.

How did you come to that conclusion???