Misogynistic lines/attitudes from porn does it bother you ?

Nevyn

Karoma wrote: »

I have to ask: Which came first? The bad attitude by some men, or porn?

How far back to you want to go ?
Yes it would pre date porn but it has always been in porn going back as far as some of the earliest of porn.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tijuana_bible

Karoma wrote: »

Could it be asked that what's in porn is a reflection on real life?

IF you take the view that it is art then it's life reflected in art.

Karoma wrote: »

isn't all porn about fantasy - in the exploitative stuff,

I think that for the most part porn is an industry, it's a product to be consumed and like all media it does have an effect on the people that watch it.

Karoma wrote: »

aren't men just being liberated from the polite, civil interaction in to which we are trapped?

That is derogatory to men and not a view I espouse at all.

Karoma wrote: »

don't you think most men can tell the difference?

I think that most grown men can but idiots aside teens and young men who have been more exposed and female teens and young women can develop
unrealistic ideas about what sexual interactions are meant to be like.

For many people making fanastys become reality is part of their goal with their sex life all of which between two consenting adults is fine in my book
but when colours people's views of people in a negative way and changes thier interaction with people then it's a concern imho.

Karoma wrote: »

Are you in fact being sexist (and ageist) in assuming that young men cannot?

I think the rise of raunchy culture is bad for both young men and women and I don't think that makes me sexist or ageist, it's not about sexual freedom and choice but about sexploitation.

Phototoxin

It bothers me an I'm XY last time i checked. I think its a turn off, its demenaing to all involved and the women in such films do other woman a disservice.

Also re the film element/lack of tripod. I agree. If they were of 'film' quality then they might be respectable but personally I dont see much difference in hiring a few hookers and grabbing me digicam, having at it and uploading it to whatever the xxx version of youtube is.

Erotic films would fare better but I've not seen one

I think that most grown men can but idiots aside teens and young men who have been more exposed and female teens and young women can develop
unrealistic ideas about what sexual interactions are meant to be like.

For many people making fanastys become reality is part of their goal with their sex life all of which between two consenting adults is fine in my book
but when colours people's views of people in a negative way and changes thier interaction with people then it's a concern imho.

QFT

fantasies fun, but not at the others expense

Dudess

Galvasean wrote: »

As a former film student that made me laugh.

Ah you know what I mean...
When I say "script" I mean it in the... ahem... loosest sense of the word.

Nevyn

Phototoxin wrote: »

having at it and uploading it to whatever the xxx version of youtube is.

That would be porntube or redtube.

Phototoxin wrote: »

Erotic films would fare better but I've not seen one

There are classier products by the likes of Vivid.

Phototoxin wrote: »

fantasies fun, but not at the others expense

Which can be mental and emotional and not just physical.

Nevyn

The rise of gonzo porn has been sickening tbh, but there are limits
http://www2.tbo.com/content/2008/oct/03/040216/judge-sentences-porn-producer-46-month-prison/

Gonzo porn baron max hardcore got sentenced for 46 Months In Prison as his productions
were seen as breaking obscenity laws.

Dudess

Oh that fuker. I remember seeing him on the documentary Hardcore. What a bastard. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0322500/

anonymous_joe

It's something that can make uncomfortable men feel happier about themselves. Call it a way of 'proving' their masculinity/virility.

JC 2K3

I would be more comfortable with the existance of porn that sickened me than censorship being enforced on the production of porn of any kind.

metrovelvet

It bothers me because I have no doubt that 12 year olds peruse these boards. If I had a child old enough to use a computer I would have software that banned this site, not just because of that thread but also because of other language I have seen on After Hours.

It bothers me also because I suspect that if the line were "swallow black bitch" or "swallow asian bitch" the thread would be locked and the OP banned, indicating that sexism is more tolerated than racism on these boards.

The more immediately available media is the more the mainstream population will become desensitised to what porn presents, so it continuously has to up the ante on shock value. And I'm a firm believer that life imitates art, monkey see, monkey do.

I am intrigued by mysogyny. Lacan observed that for a man to get turned on, he must think of the object [the woman] as a whore and for a woman to get turned on she must think of the object [the man] as a hero. There is something to this I think.

But I also think it's their way of working out their [heterosexual me]resentment on their dependencies on women. For gay men it's different, as a gay friend observed, it's about making repulsive something you feel guilty about not being attracted to.

cHaTbOx

I find this totally out of line and demeaning for all women.

"Swallow bitch, its for your health! " shows women as sex objects ,which no doubt is a common occurance in the society we live in,but there is a difference between reality and fantasy.

In these Porn videos, the women self exploit themselves which in turn, turns women into a commodity,which they are not.

Censorship is not the issue,It is attidudes of those who think this fantasy is an expectation in reality.

Of course these fantasies can be played out if both engaged are comfortable,but the problem is when one participant forces there fantasy on the other which in turn, puts them in the uncomfortable situation of feeling degraded and not equal.

robtri

Not all porn is about making the woman look like a sex object, there is a lot of porn out there that women are the dominent mistress and that men are the sex object....

cHaTbOx

robtri wrote: »

Not all porn is about making the woman look like a sex object, there is a lot of porn out there that women are the dominent mistress and that men are the sex object....

Nobody is disputing that fact but phrases like:

'Swallow bitch" " Take it you whore" and " You know you want it you slut"

Come from porn which focuses on degradation of women and this is the issue which has been brought up in this thread.
These phrases may be used by dominatrixes but this is still fantasy and in real life I don't think man or woman likes to talked down to unless they want to be.
The issue here is between fantasy and real life and its boundaries between partners

Nevyn

random chatbox wrote: »

The issue here is between fantasy and real life and its boundaries between partners

Also the difference is when it is not just between consenting parties or when a person is watching porn when it is seen as funny or in any way acceptable to address women in general in what way which is what that thread in AH does.

Nerin

I think a more worrying issue is that men who are using porno to learn how to talk to women are getting laid. And breeding.

CDfm

well its an artform by professional film makers

if you look at it its like three act plays of the 19th century or even a Simpsons episode. So it follows a format.

I blame the women they get paid 5 times more then the male actors

its time for equality equal pay just like Women Tennis Players getting equal prize money to men

The men in these movies are being discriminated against and dont know it

Peared

Does it bother me..

..in porn? No.

..as a thread title that is considered acceptable even though it is in no way 'ironic' and just some young fellas way of getting to say something he will never get the chance to say in real life (I'm guessing here) on one of the most popular forums on boards? Yes.

Reku

Thaedydal wrote: »

Atm there is a thread entitled "Swallow bitch, its for your health! "
The content of which is about some crappy research a bunch of students did
to try and say that swallowing ejaculate would improve your chances of not getting breast cancer. Fair enough a bunch of lads trying to publish a paper to get more head.

But the thread title irks me.

Now I am not anti porn but I find a lot of the misogynistic lines in it and the ones with misogynistic attitudes to be off putting, things such as 'Swallow bitch" " Take it you whore" and " You know you want it you slut".

It's bad enough that this is in some porn but worrying that some young guys seem to think that this is the norm or seem to want to be able to get away with saying such things.

So do such things in porn bother you ?
Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?
Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?
Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Well the good news is that in femdom porn the roles and the lines get reversed, i.e. the ladies tell the men the above lines. So is it really a gender thing or a dominance thing?
Some girls actually like some derogatory name calling during foreplay/sex, as one put it to me once "I like to feel dirty", wasn't into it myself, tried, but too weird....:o
Undoubtedly some men do too.

Kya1976

it just makes me laugh, boys will be boys and all of that:rolleyes:
Dont mind talking dirty during sex but having said that it wouldn't really do it for me if a man told me to 'swallow betch' either.....

shellyboo

Thaedydal wrote: »

So do such things in porn bother you ?
Would some one you were with saying these things during sex bother you ?
Would some one saying such things about women bother you ?
Do you think that there are some bad things about the cross over of a lot of things in porn to real life ?

Firstly to answer the question - such things in porn don't bother me in the slightest. If I didn't want to hear degrading language towards women, I would avoid porn altogether; just as if I didn't want to see people peeing on eachother I would avoid watching porn that involved watersports. Porn caters to its audience, the only reason that it's out there is because people like to watch it.

Someone saying such things about women doesn't bother me unless they're serious. A lot of this talk goes on between men in jest, and most of them are good guys who'd never dream of disrespecting their partner in bed - unless she asked them to There are, of course, the exceptions to this rule - these men are arseholes. Nothing new there. Just don't have sex with them.

The fact that such language sometimes crosses over into real life is entirely natural, as porn didn't invent it out of thin air. Porn is made by people who like to make money turning other people on - the fact that a lot of porn includes this language suggest that a lot of people (mainly men, I grant you) find it a turn-on. However, this doesn't mean they want to bring it into their own sex lives - as with something like anal sex, men are often happy to leave that in the realm of porn.

Chinafoot wrote: »

In fairness, dirty talk doesn't require derogatory terms like whore and slut.

Quite right, it doesn't... but I'd be prepared to bet money that there are a hell of a lot of women out there who bloody love it. There is a problem with our attitude to sex in general - everyone's got their knickers in a twist about what's "normal" and what's "respectful" and "oh, that's sexist and derogatory"... it's sex, not politics. Take the stick out of your ass and enjoy it... maybe invest in a butt plug instead There are a vast number of women out there who enjoy being talked dirty to in bed, and who even enjoy being called slut and whores and bitches because they have the wherewithal to understand that just because your partner calls you that to turn you on in bed, or to turn himself on even, doesn't mean that you are a slut/whore/bitch or indeed that he actually thinks you're a slut/whore/bitch.

It's only derogatory if the person being called it thinks so, in essence. If someone calls me a slut, it's only when I take offence that it becomes offensive. It's the same when someone calls me fat - I choose whether or not to take offence. The man who employs this kind of language with a partner who does find it offensive is not a man at all, but an immature child with no respect for the sexual boundaries of his partner. It's the same type of guy who moans about using condoms, thinks that going anywhere near his own ejaculate is "gay", thinks porn has anything to do with real sex... and thinks that sex is something you "do" to a woman. The problem here is not the language, it's the attitude of the person using it.

Ahem... rant over

pseudonym1

As my ole Gran used to say - if there were no bad women there would be no bad men!!

You command the respect your giving especially as a woman..

Dragan

Galvasean wrote: »

What's really cool is that their society has replaced violence with sexual liberation. We could learn a lot from them...

Not really. They still have violence, and public displays of such, it's just that it is very, very tame. Dragging bushes around, occasionnally a slap of a branch or something. They were only really able to do this due to few natural predators over a long period of time. Not a comfort we have.

As for the topic at hand, I like sex. I quite like hard sex. Shame on me. Quite a few of the girls that I have been with have also enjoyed hard sex. Some have enjoyed dirty talk.

I think it would be very foolish, and very arrogant to assume that my view of sex has been "coloured" by anything, or that the view of some of the girls I have been with has been "coloured" by anything either.

Some people like soft and slow sex. Good for them, I find that boring and it's not my cup of tea. This does not mean I should go around trying to find some reason as to why they like it and then cast it in a negative light simply because it does not appeal to me, maybe they just like it?

To be honest, this is something I see quite a bit, especially about hard sex, or the people who like hard sex. How they have some kind of woman issue, or perhaps are a control freak etc. Once again I think the human condition is far too dynamic to make such statements. And normally the same person will then say something about the girl in question having no respect for herself. lol

I think the assumption and mistake people make is that women have no control or cannot be dominant during hard sex.

I assure you that they can.

And it is awesome.

Macha

No, it doesn't bother me so much personally because it's all in the realm of fantasy, etc BUT when it starts to cross over into people's realities - that's when I get worried. Girls thinking it's "empowering" to dress up like porn stars and men thinking it's "normal" to talk to women like that.

Story: an ex of mine told me about a male friend of his who was really messed around by a girl. Long story short, he ended up having extremely mysoginistic views and started to love watching bestiality porn, (animals with women) because it was completely demeaning & derogatory to the woman. Now, what was scary for me was his attitude, not the porn itself. (although as someone who cares about animals, I'd have concerns for the poor animals involved as well!)

JC 2K3 wrote: »

I would be more comfortable with the existance of porn that sickened me than censorship being enforced on the production of porn of any kind.

Really? Even porn involving children?

I suppose in other cases where no one is really being harmed, it is a chicken/egg question. Surely no one would make it unless there was a market for it but then again it can work the other way and start to influence people's attitudes. The whole sexualisation of our culture is sickening - women now exercising by doing pole dancing - sorry but wtf??

Nevyn

farohar wrote: »

Well the good news is that in femdom porn the roles and the lines get reversed, i.e. the ladies tell the men the above lines. So is it really a gender thing or a dominance thing?

[


Femdom and dominatrix porn is far form being mainstream and it part of the range of bdsm and fetish behaviour which is not seen as the norm but
the misogunistic lines and behaviour which are seen in more mainstream porn are becoming seen as being normal behaviour which frankly it isn't.

farohar wrote: »

Some girls actually like some derogatory name calling during foreplay/sex, as one put it to me once "I like to feel dirty", wasn't into it myself, tried, but too weird....:o
Undoubtedly some men do too.

What two consenting adults choose to do or try out with each other in private is one things, displaying or behaving in such a manner to people who have not consented is completely different.

rediguana

I'm a bloke and I love porn but I hate the degrading stuff - what's the need for it?

If you want to watch it with a lady (and who doesn't?), it's going to make it tougher to get her onside if the guy in the DVD is pulling the woman's hair, and making two chicks swap cum between their mouths, and calling them bitches.

I'd like the Ann Summers DVDs if they were more explicit. What's the deal - they don't even show penetration! Obviously it's some kind of legal thing, but it's so frustrating.

If anyone can recommend woman-friendly porn that's actually explicit, involves beautiful people, and doesn't have crazy dialogue - link it up!

Nevyn

Peared wrote: »

..as a thread title that is considered acceptable even though it is in no way 'ironic' and just some young fellas way of getting to say something he will never get the chance to say in real life (I'm guessing here) on one of the most popular forums on boards? Yes.

But if he started a thread which used a racial slur which he would never get a chance to say in real life would the thread be still open or would the title be change and the thread locked ?

Nevyn

shellyboo wrote: »

Quite right, it doesn't... but I'd be prepared to bet money that there are a hell of a lot of women out there who bloody love it. There is a problem with our attitude to sex in general - everyone's got their knickers in a twist about what's "normal" and what's "respectful" and "oh, that's sexist and derogatory"... it's sex, not politics. Take the stick out of your ass and enjoy it... maybe invest in a butt plug instead There are a vast number of women out there who enjoy being talked dirty to in bed, and who even enjoy being called slut and whores and bitches because they have the wherewithal to understand that just because your partner calls you that to turn you on in bed, or to turn himself on even, doesn't mean that you are a slut/whore/bitch or indeed that he actually thinks you're a slut/whore/bitch.

I am well aware of how sexual taboos work and power exchange and sexual/ role play, I am far from a prude or a priss.

Again I have no issue with what consenting adults do with in the bounds of their relationship but again it is with in that dynamic and with consent given,
but there is a difference between that and a stranger thinking that is acceptable to address women who have not consented in such a manner or a member of this site to address all the female posters in this fashion.
I certainly don't recall any of the T&C for this site including giving such consent.

shellyboo wrote: »

It's only derogatory if the person being called it thinks so, in essence. If someone calls me a slut, it's only when I take offence that it becomes offensive. It's the same when someone calls me fat - I choose whether or not to take offence.

If such comments are directed at me chances are I will just brush them off but this was different, there has been a growing amount of misogyny in AH and on the site tbh and this is a clear crass example of it.

shellyboo wrote: »

The man who employs this kind of language with a partner who does find it offensive is not a man at all, but an immature child with no respect for the sexual boundaries of his partner. It's the same type of guy who moans about using condoms, thinks that going anywhere near his own ejaculate is "gay", thinks porn has anything to do with real sex... and thinks that sex is something you "do" to a woman. The problem here is not the language, it's the attitude of the person using it.

True and I don't think that normalising or praising that type of attitude is a good thing for men or women.

sprinklesspanky

Sex is only good when it's dirty.

In sex, as in life, there's always a top and a bottom; but that doesn't mean it has to be the woman in the role of "bottom".

Dragan

Thaedydal wrote: »

there has been a growing amount of misogyny in AH and on the site tbh and this is a clear crass example of it.

To be honest Thae to me it seems you have more of issue with the content of AH than the actual content of the type of porn in question?

At the end of the day i subscribe to the simple line of "either everything is funny or nothing is" myself.

Nevyn

rediguana wrote: »

If anyone can recommend woman-friendly porn that's actually explicit, involves beautiful people, and doesn't have crazy dialogue - link it up!

[nsfw]http://www.karaslinks.com/movies.html[nsfw]

[nsfw]http://www.tinynibbles.com/smartporn[nsfw]


The link above it to Vioiet Blue's recommendations from her book The Smart Girl’s Guide to Porn.

About: Violet Blue is the best-selling, award-winning author and editor of over two dozen on sex and sexuality, all currently in print, a number of which have been translated into several languages; she has contributed to a number of nonfiction anthologies. Blue was just named one of Wired’s Faces of Innovation 2008; watch her demo video on Blip.tv. She is a sex educator who lectures at UC’s and community teaching institutions, and writes about erotica, pornography, sexual pleasure and health for major publications and blogs (such as Forbes and O: The Oprah Magazine). She is a professional sex blogger and femmebot; an author at Metroblogging San Francisco (Metblogs); a correspondent for Geek Entertainment Television; she is on the Gawker Media payroll as girl friday contributor and editor at Fleshbot since 2005; in January 2007, Violet was named a Forbes Web Celeb 25. She is a San Francisco native and human blog. Violet is the sex columnist for the San Francisco Chronicle with a weekly column titled Open Source Sex, and has a podcast of the same name that frequents iTunes’ top ten.

Nevyn

Dragan wrote: »

To be honest Thae to me it seems you have more of issue with the content of AH than the actual content of the type of porn in question?

At the end of the day i subscribe to the simple line of "either everything is funny or nothing is" myself.

I've experienced this in other place not just on this site and am curious to what the effects porn has on people and how the posters who happen to be female feel and think about the topic, which is why I started this thread. Esp what considering research has shown

Women watch porn, fastfacts:

The study by Today’s Christian Woman found that even good church-going women were peeking at the odd bit of porn. Over 34 percent of female respondents to an online survey said they had deliberately gone looking for porn.

Research by scientists at Stanford Medical University in California in December 2003 found that women become more quickly aroused by porn videos than men.

In late 2003, Neilsen Netratings revealed that 1 in 3 users of porn were women. Over 9 million American women accessed adult sites in September 2003 alone. According to Internet Filter Review, 13% of women are accessing porn at work.

In the past five years, the number of female directors of porn video and film has increased from a handful to 30, compared to about 200 male porn directors. (Mercury News 9.5.03)

As of 2003, only 4% of today’s (non-erotic, Hollywood) films are directed by women. (BUST winter .03)

In 2002, over eight million adult videos and DVD were rented in America. 30% of those rentals went to women and “couples.” (Adult Video News 1.03)

In women-friendly boutiques such as Good Vibrations, women make up 80% of the porn rental and purchase market (2003). These figures are never included in mainstream journal statisitcs (such as AVN).

In a 1987 Redbook survey of over 26,000 female respondents, nearly half stated that they regularly used porn.

In the 1996 book Defending Pornography by ACLU president Nadine Strossen, “Women, either singly or as part of a couple, constitute more than 40 percent of the adult videotape rental audience. . .”

In 1989, Good Vibrations added adult videos to their catalog, at the behest (demand) of female staff and customers.

Still digging to see if I can find more current data.