Brian Lenihan (Min. for Finance) is visiting UCD.

1968

Student Union and Free Education for Everyone have called a protest to greet him.

mloc

More of the same naive lefty protest crap?

Sure guys, why don't we just print more money instead of having people pay fees? It seems to work in Zimbabwe.

delta_bravo

OP you sure the SU organised this?

Het-Field

FFE. That is the naffest parody ever.

Tayto2000

No mention of the SU, could this be the first day out for the fledgling anarchist society...?

'Free' education is not right btw, it's more accurate to call it 'taxpayer funded' education...

spudington16

These guys really don't have a clue, and their tactics are a bad reflection of UCD and aren't representative of its student population as a whole.

33% God

mloc wrote: »

More of the same naive lefty protest crap?

Sure guys, why don't we just print more money instead of having people pay fees? It seems to work in Zimbabwe.

Ya screw it, I'm sick of seeing poor people in my university, pushing up the points and what not :rolleyes:.

Stabshauptmann

Sorry, what did the budget do to free fees?

Tom65

Don't tell me they're going to pull this crap where they stop him from attending whatever he's in UCD to do (like with Eamon Ryan last year)? It's embarrassing and reflects badly on UCD.

As Kaptain Redeye said, what did the budget have to do with 'free fees'?

elgriff

it raised the registration fee to €1500

fish-head

Such a reasonable proposition.

1968

delta_bravo wrote: »

OP you sure the SU organised this?

The above poster was designed by a member of FEE.

The UCDSU sabbatical officers have voted in favour of supporting the protest.

Stabshauptmann

****, that flew right under my radar.

1968

Kaptain Redeye wrote: »

Sorry, what did the budget do to free fees?

The student registration charge will increase by roughly €600 to €1,500 from next September. However, Minister for Education Batt O'Keeffe has signalled this is only an interim measure, pending the likely return of some form of college fees.

In a significant move yesterday, the Minister said he has now been mandated by the Cabinet to bring forward proposals on tuition fees. These are expected to be ready within four months, probably early in the new year. It is expected a new fees regime will be in place by September of next year. This is likely to run in parallel with the student registration charge which will increase from an average of about €900 to €1,500."

continues - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1015/1224020736572.html

bnt

If you're going to reverse a government decision, you'll need to do more than protest, IMHO. All a protest does is say "we don't like it", and I'm guessing they can see that coming. Make a case, tell them something they don't already know, and without the predictable whining. :rolleyes:

Stabshauptmann

1968 wrote: »

The student registration charge will increase by roughly €600 to €1,500 from next September. However, Minister for Education Batt O'Keeffe has signalled this is only an interim measure, pending the likely return of some form of college fees.

In a significant move yesterday, the Minister said he has now been mandated by the Cabinet to bring forward proposals on tuition fees. These are expected to be ready within four months, probably early in the new year. It is expected a new fees regime will be in place by September of next year. This is likely to run in parallel with the student registration charge which will increase from an average of about €900 to €1,500."

continues - http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1015/1224020736572.html

another interesting point from that article is that the UCD registration fee is about €300 higher than the average university...

mad lad

Sure guys, why don't we just print more money instead of having people pay fees?

The government currently subsidises private second level education to the tune of approx €80 million. If the government really cared about social inclusion, it would end this subsidy which only serves to give the children of wealthy parents an additional advantage of those from lower socio-economic backgorunds. The €80 million, which is more than would be raised by the reintroduction of fees, could then invest in the grants system or in early intervention schemes at primary and secondary level to help address certain barriers to education. There are countless other examples of issues like this.

their tactics are a bad reflection of UCD and aren't representative of its student population as a whole.

The last time a blockade happened in UCD was in 2002 at the arrival of Noel Dempsey on campus. An opinion poll conducted by the Tribune after the event found that 76% of students supported the tactics of the group involved. The current blockade has the backing of the 5 sabbatical officers who students put in charge of representing them. I'd attribute more wieght to the combination that a) the tactic has been previously supported by the majority of students and b) its supported by the people students chose to represent them. The use of the tactic might not represent you, but you are not ucd.

<edited>

Kelso

mad lad wrote: »

There was a referendum a couple of years ago to increase the registration fee by €150 (I think) to fund a new student centre, which was passed. I think thats partially why ucds charge is higher...blame the idiots who've graduated and left the current bunch to pick up the bill!

The 150 is not part of the registration fee, it's the student centre levy. And it wasn't increased by 150 anyway, there was already a levy in place which was increased TO 150.
Allso, as to the 1500 reg fee, if I'm correct that's just the limit they can raise it too so it won't necessarily be the whole 1500 (although it would be v.unlike ucd not to squeeze evry penny possible of the students)

mad lad

The 150 is not part of the registration fee

yeah you're right, my memory is ****ed...but try registering without paying it and see how far you get

dr.bollocko

The real problem is that that's just a piss poor poster.
There are a number of issues that have been raised by yesterday's budget and I really think that I now mistrust the guy implicitly for what he did yesterday. I'd love to put a few questions to him or see him in person so I could look for the strings controlling him from above.

mad lad

The real problem is that that's just a piss poor poster.

tell ya what - post up a better one here and I'll put a hundred posters and 500 leaflets around campus with your image on it.

dr.bollocko

mad lad wrote: »

tell ya what - post up a better one here and I'll put a hundred copies around campus and 500 leaflets with your image on it.

/puts up dukes.

mad lad

I'm deadly serious. We're giving out leaflets up until monday - if you can come up with something better, by all means, go ahead.

The_Minister

mad lad wrote: »

The government currently subsidises private second level education to the tune of approx €80 million. If the government really cared about social inclusion, it would end this subsidy which only serves to give the children of wealthy parents an additional advantage of those from lower socio-economic backgorunds. The €80 million, which is more than would be raised by the reintroduction of fees, could then invest in the grants system or in early intervention schemes at primary and secondary level to help address certain barriers to education. There are countless other examples of issues like this.

The government still has a duty to pay for education. All that private schools do is make the parents who choose to send their children there, pay more for facilities etc. Do you really think if parents make a contribution to the school, to promote a certain ethos, or maybe increase the range of activites available, then the government should just say "**** you" and put the entire cost of education on the parents?
How do you justify that? Seriously?
You are basically saying that all schools should be funded publically to the same standard (grand stuff) but if parents choose a school where they can contribute more for whatever (archery classes, fishing club etc), then they have to take the entire cost of education on board (Not grand).

mad lad wrote: »

The last time a blockade happened in UCD was in 2002 at the arrival of Noel Dempsey on campus. An opinion poll conducted by the Tribune after the event found that 76% of students supported the tactics of the group involved. The current blockade has the backing of the 5 sabbatical officers who students put in charge of representing them. I'd attribute more wieght to the combination that a) the tactic has been previously supported by the majority of students and b) its supported by the people students chose to represent them. The use of the tactic might not represent you, but you are not ucd.

I wouldn't wipe my hole with the Tribune. It's like the Mirror - you read it for entertainment, but you don't believe whats in it. I wouldn't trust the Tribune to tell me that the sky was blue.
I have no problem with the protest, but the poster is childish and insulting.

mad lad wrote: »

There was a referendum a couple of years ago to increase the registration fee by €150 (I think) to fund a new student centre, which was passed. I think thats partially why ucds charge is higher...blame the idiots who've graduated and left the current bunch to pick up the bill!

Oh yes it's our fault:rolleyes: we just had to pay for it, and will get a tiny discount when its built. Most of us who voted for it (I slightly regret my decision) still have to pay the levy at least once.

dr.bollocko

You have indeed laid down the gambit. As 'twere. And I may even give it a bash. However UCD is not my native college nor my native county.
Though I might submit an alternative I would just argue that it is not the design that is the problem but the context in which it is framed.

mloc

mad lad wrote: »

An opinion poll conducted by the Tribune after the event found that 76% of students supported the tactics of the group involved.

I'd like to see the methodology behind their poll. A non-independent, non-randomised poll by the Tribune is worth about as much as fart.

I'm personally for the re-introduction of fees with a college loans system backed up by means tested repayments, similar to the system in place in Scotland and Australia.

mad lad

All that private schools do is make the parents who choose to send their children there, pay more for facilities etc........then the government should just say "**** you" and put the entire cost of education on the parents?

Absolutley. Why should the parents of a kid in public school subsidse private education for wealthier kids to gain an advantage?

I'd like to see the methodology behind their poll. A non-independent, non-randomised poll by the Tribune is worth about as much as fart.

I'm not a fan of polls myself but I'd take one over the opinion of some lad on an internet forum conflating his views with those of ucd as a whole.

I'm personally for the re-introduction of fees with a college loans system backed up by means tested repayments, similar to the system in place in Scotland and Australia.

This system has left the Australian government €15 billion in debt. How do you propse the system and results would be different in Ireland? The current Australian education minister has said the system has been a failure.

Breezer

mad lad wrote: »

Absolutley. Why should the parents of a kid in public school subsidse private education for wealthier kids to gain an advantage?

They're not "subsidising private education for wealthier kids." 'They' (by which I mean the Irish taxpayer, not any articular group of parents) are subsidising education in general. If, having paid their taxes (at a higher rate), higher earners want to contribute more towards their children's education then I see no problem with that. Nor do I see why, having done so, they should then be told "Well, you're clearly rich, so as well as paying higher taxes and the extra for private education, you can also pay the basic education rate instead of 'the taxpayer', and then you can pay for college too. That'll teach you to pay for things you want, won't it?"

While the increase in registration fees is ridiculously high, I am much more concerned that there has still been no attempt to regulate the waste of money on the part of UCD and other institutions. Today I learned that the UCD library has a place in 'Second Life.' I wonder how much that cost, and if it stays open longer than the real library?

Back to the original topic, I've no problem if people want to heckle Brian Lenihan. Students won't be the only ones. But don't prevent him speaking at debates, make your views known outside, then argue the point with him in the debate. And when the time comes, for the love of god vote him out along with the rest of his party!

anonymous_joe

Hmmm.

Two points:

Off topic - if private schools shouldn't get government funding, why not reduce taxes for people who send their kids to private schools?

On topic - if you disagree with Lenihan, engage in debate, nothing else. Then vote against him afterwards.

mad lad

if you disagree with Lenihan, engage in debate, nothing else. Then vote against him afterwards.

USI will be engaging in debate with the minister. Waiting until the summer of 2012 to write a number in a box isn't going to accomplish much.

On the issue of private schoos:
Wealthy parents pay for private education for their children in order to give them an advantage in the leaving cert and consequently, of getting into the 'better' colleges and courses. Currently the government subsidises this. I'm against it because I don't believe that the government should be contributing financially to something that promotes inequality.

mloc

mad lad wrote: »

This system has left the Australian government €15 billion in debt. How do you propse the system and results would be different in Ireland? The current Australian education minister has said the system has been a failure.

The system seems to be working in Scotland, which is much more similar to Ireland than Australia. The fact is colleges are running into huge deficits, despite cutbacks. Where will the money come from? More taxes? Oh yes of course, tax the well off; putting a tax on being successful is a fantastic way to stimulate the economy.

Two things are certain in colleges in Ireland; too many people (well off and not so well off) are going to college when they should be in other disciplines and there is simply not enough money to fund courses properly. Sure, everyone has a "right" to education; but this right does not neccessarily stretch to 3rd level education for those who are unable, uninterested or those who expect it to come for free. A payback loan scheme for fees is fairer; those from well off backgrounds and those from poorer are both given a chance to make a career for themselves before paying money back.