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Why do you believe Mohammad?
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Why do we Christians believe Jesus when he said God was talking to him ?
Why do we believe the writers of The Gospels ?,
or the other Christian prophets ?
They said that God was talking to them also.
It's called Faith......and each to their own !0 -
we believe in Mohammed because he was last messenger of allah (god) and everything he said it was true, it happened or it will happen. he never lied. allah ask us to believe in him.0
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Well this thread died a death. Does anyone have an answer to a genuine question?0
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Adam Mitchel wrote: »Why do we Christians believe Jesus when he said God was talking to him ?
Ask over in the Christianity forum and I'm sure you'll find many answers.Why do we believe the writers of The Gospels ?,
or the other Christian prophets ?
They said that God was talking to them also.
Last time I checked, this was the Islam forum. The above questions can be asked in the christianity forum if you want. However, I'm asking a question relevant to Islam not christianity.It's called Faith......and each to their own !
i thought I asked a simple question myself. if that is the muslim stance on why they believe Mohammad, then so be it. Stop making out I'm somehow attacking their beliefs. I just asked a simple question.0 -
we believe in Mohammed because he was last messenger of allah (god) and everything he said it was true, it happened or it will happen. he never lied. allah ask us to believe in him.
You believe he was the last prophet because he said so. What I'm asking, is why you believe he was telling the truth?0 -
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Nobody? is there any resource that would deal with this question, or is it a taboo for muslims to answer it? i don't know why it would be taboo. Maybe the mods are on holiday?0
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Nobody? is there any resource that would deal with this question, or is it a taboo for muslims to answer it? i don't know why it would be taboo. Maybe the mods are on holiday?
Asking him to justify his faith is exactly the same as asking you to justify yours. Why do you believe PDN when he says Jesus speaks to him? You Christians subscribe to the 'Holy Trinity' school of thought, so Jesus is god (would that be a correct description of the holy trinity?).
Asking why you believe Jesus was the son of God is pretty much the exact same question as asking a Muslim why (s)he believes that Mohammad was spoken to by God.
It's all dogma anyway, you believe god spoke to Mohammad, or Jesus was the son of God because that is what you learned in Sunday School or church, and that is what your parents thought you and you are unwilling to examine your faith and look for rational explanations.
This has to be the most ridiculous attempt to start a flame war that I have ever seen 'The voices in my head are better than the voices in your head'
EDIT:
Even as I hit send I started laughing. That exact same argument has been used to justify the deaths of billions of people. Now, that says more about religion than nearly anything else.0 -
Nobody? is there any resource that would deal with this question, or is it a taboo for muslims to answer it? i don't know why it would be taboo. Maybe the mods are on holiday?
Jimi, you got your answer.we believe in Mohammed because he was last messenger of allah (god) and everything he said it was true, it happened or it will happen. he never lied. allah ask us to believe in him.
Based on your very own method of belief, this answer is totally acceptable. I suggest you leave it at this.0 -
Jimi, you got your answer.
No I didn't. And I clarified what I was asking.Based on your very own method of belief, this answer is totally acceptable. I suggest you leave it at this.
Did I break a charter rule by asking the question? Because if I didn't, don't 'suggest' I leave it! I have asked a simple question, the only answer I've got misunderstood the question. I am aware of where I am, and have no plans to start a fight or start a crusade. If you look at my A&A questions, do you see me shoot down the answers? No! Why? unlike many posters, I'm actually just looking for the question to be answered. Now you as a Mod have come in here, seen people basically saying I shouldn't ask the question because of my own views. Views which they, and you, have misrepresented. I have no problem if someone goes to the Christianity forum and asks a similar question. By the sounds of it, you need to be enlightened regarding the answer too.
Now why don't you do your Modding correctly and tell the people who have hijacked this thread, by strawmanning my faith and distracting from the question to stop and let the muslims on the forum answer it!
TO THE MUSLIMS OF THIS FORUM: I am not here to start a fight, contrary to the opinions of some of the posters so far. I AM a christian, but does that mean I have no right to educate myself regards Islam? I wont be, and never intended to, bring christianity into this question. Look at my questions on the Atheist forum, and you will see I've not gone trying to ram my faith down peoples throat. Rather I have been thankful for the answers provided, whether I disagreed or not. This is your house, and I am your guest.
So if you can answer the question. Why do you believe Mohammad was telling the truth when he said God was talking to him? Also, due to the lack of constructive response, I mean it when I say it, Is this question a taboo? If it is, I'll look elsewhere for an answer. But to confirm, an answer, and not an arguement is what I seek.
Peacefully, and respectfully,
Jimi.0 -
Same reason as Christians/Jews/Hindus etc. Its down to faith. I was always under the impression, this is common accross all religions.0
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Asking him to justify his faith is exactly the same as asking you to justify yours.
Fine! But I didn't ask anyone to 'justify' their faith. If the answer to my question is 'we have faith in mohammad' my question is why? Thats a fair question to ask a christian also. I've no problem with that. The answer may not convince, but I'm not asking to be convinced, I'm asking to be educated. I'm not asking so that I can argue my point of view, but to understand someone elses. Simple. Unfortunately, not many muslims answered, and you guys start lighting fires.Why do you believe PDN when he says Jesus speaks to him?
Could you show me where I said 'I' thought Jesus spoke to him? I can tell you I said that PDN 'claimed' this, and you can choose to believe him or not.You Christians subscribe to the 'Holy Trinity' school of thought, so Jesus is god (would that be a correct description of the holy trinity?).
Asking why you believe Jesus was the son of God is pretty much the exact same question as asking a Muslim why (s)he believes that Mohammad was spoken to by God.
Ok, so whats the problem? If you ask the question in Christianity, with a desire to just get the answers, then there's no issue.It's all dogma anyway, you believe god spoke to Mohammad, or Jesus was the son of God because that is what you learned in Sunday School or church, and that is what your parents thought you and you are unwilling to examine your faith and look for rational explanations.
Asiaprod, I'm curious to know why my Genuine Question had you all hot and bothered, when it didn't breach any charter points, yet something like the above just sails right by?This has to be the most ridiculous attempt to start a flame war that I have ever seen 'The voices in my head are better than the voices in your head'
Maybe that is an insight into your head and your 'methods'. However, its certainly got jaff all to do with my question. You like your assumptions. Some people, like myself, are not in the habit of trying to start arguements. Though, to give you the benefit, many people pick fights by starting with a contentious question. Unfortunately, you are jumping the gun. Maybe you should stop listening to that voice in your head.Even as I hit send I started laughing. That exact same argument has been used to justify the deaths of billions of people. Now, that says more about religion than nearly anything else.
'Arguement'? Are you talking to yourself? There has been no arguement here, apart from you and that guy who went on about christianity. The assumption just seems to be: Christian asks question on Islam forum, he must be starting a fight. As I said, that might be an insight into how you work, its certainly not how I do.
Now if you don't mind, please stop trying to start a fight. Do you have a 'GENUINE' answer to my question? If not, I'd appreciate if you take a backseat.
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Same reason as Christians/Jews/Hindus etc. Its down to faith. I was always under the impression, this is common accross all religions.
My question is why you have faith in Mohammad? Why do you believe he was truthful when he said God spoke to him?
To give an example, I don't have faith in Jesus, because he said he was the son of God. My faith is based on a few things. The fulfillment of the prophecy of his life and death. The consensus of the witnesses that testified about him. The fulfillment of the prophecy of the destruction of Jeruselem etc.
So my faith is based on things. What I'm asking is, why is it you have faith in Mohammad?
BTW, I'm not here to argue, either mine nor your faith. I'm just trying to find out what your faith is based on. Thank you for ignoring the previous goings on. i appreciate your input.0 -
Ask over in the Christianity forum and I'm sure you'll find many answers.
Last time I checked, this was the Islam forum. The above questions can be asked in the christianity forum if you want. However, I'm asking a question relevant to Islam not christianity.
Eh?
His questions were rhetorical, and I think he gave a perfectly reasonable answer to the question you posed. In other words, as Christians have their faith in Christ, Muslims have faith that God did actually speak to Mohammad.
This faith is generally derived from what is drummed into you as a child.
By the way, do you have some problem with Christians posting on this forum?0 -
JimiTime wrote:My question is why you have faith in Mohammad? Why do you believe he was truthful when he said God spoke to him?
You say you don't have faith in Jesus, well as Christians thats who you're supposed to have faith in God and his son. Now I'm not saying you personally, but thats the general 'guidelines' I suppose.
Muslims don't worship Muhammad, they worship God. Muhammad is a prophet, a messanger. I'm sure you know that the Quran is seen as the speech of God, as it was told to Muhammad and was written down without any editing.
Taken from a passage in a book ("Islam: A Very Short Introduction" by Ruthven, M. (pg24)) I have:That it is God, rather than Muhammad, who speaks in the Quran is evident from the way many of the utterances are prefixed by the imperative 'Say!', addressed to Muhammad. God refers to himself in the first person singular and plural; but the Prophet is also addressed, by the Book itself and told about God as a third person.
I think what you want to know is why is the word of Muhammad believed. Anyone can sit in their house and write a book and say that the book is actually the word of a higher power. I can't answer you that, but Muslims wouldn't question such a thing. That would be seen as questioning God, the creator.
As an aside, if you're looking to learn more about the religion, the book is very interesting. Its a short read and you could get it for less than €10.0 -
You believe he was the last prophet because he said so. What I'm asking, is why you believe he was telling the truth?
Because scattered throughout his life were many proofs, he was able to recite the Quran a truly beautiful and perfect text because it was Allah's words, he was illiterate yet this perfect text reiterating the word of Allah as relayed to the Jews and to the Christians while clarifying any discrepancies that had crept in either inadvertently or through the interference of man. This from a man who had no education and could not have known all that was contained in it, particularly sections of the text refering to scientific matters that have only been proved in recent years.
Also there were so many incidents that defy explanation throughout his life it would be impossible to deny that he was the prophet of Allah. For example the selection of the direction of the prayer see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNWMIFHb2og. This was possible despite the fact he never went to Yeman. View and see.0 -
You say you don't have faith in Jesus,
Did I? Maybe i wasn't clear. I certainly do have faith in Jesus. I have faith in him for certain reasons. Thats what my question was was. What are the reasons that muslims have faith in Muhammad.Muslims don't worship Muhammad, they worship God. Muhammad is a prophet, a messanger. I'm sure you know that the Quran is seen as the speech of God, as it was told to Muhammad and was written down without any editing.
Yeah, i understand that.I think what you want to know is why is the word of Muhammad believed.
Bingo:)Anyone can sit in their house and write a book and say that the book is actually the word of a higher power.
Indeed they can. Some do.I can't answer you that, but Muslims wouldn't question such a thing. That would be seen as questioning God, the creator.
So it is frowned upon to question why you believe Muhammad was telling the truth? Would that be accurate?As an aside, if you're looking to learn more about the religion, the book is very interesting. Its a short read and you could get it for less than €10.
Thanks for responding, and the book recommendation. As for learning about 'Islam'. I'm more trying to educate myself on the personal views of muslims.I.E. The 'whys' of their faith rather than the 'whats' if you know what I mean. There are many people, some actually on this very thread, who don't know why I have faith, yet assume they do. I just want to know the 'why' of the Muslim faith. As I said previously, I'm not looking to argue about it, just to know why you have the faith you do.
Thanks again,
Jimi.0 -
Eh?
His questions were rhetorical, and I think he gave a perfectly reasonable answer to the question you posed. In other words, as Christians have their faith in Christ, Muslims have faith that God did actually speak to Mohammad.
This faith is generally derived from what is drummed into you as a child.
By the way, do you have some problem with Christians posting on this forum?
As a Christian, I think it would be very Ironic if I was to have an issue with Christians posting here. You have a view that Faith is merely a product of something being drummed into you as a child. Problem is, there are people from many faiths who converted from other faiths, so thats not the case. Also, the question I'm asking is 'Why' you have the faith you have. Now people have started to respond to the question, so I'd like to keep these distractions from the thread. If you want to ask me anything, or criticise my Faith or 'cheek' in asking a muslim a simple question, please PM me and I'd be happy to answer. I don't want this thread getting derailed by peoples feelings about me, and their assumptions about me. I'm just here to ask a simple question, not to convert or be converted.
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@JimiTime, Jari has basically answerd the question you asked me, better than I could. I hope you don't think me rude for not answering, as I see no reason, as it has been answered already.
If Jari has expressed your feelings also, then great. Thats all I'm looking for. I don't think its rude at all. Thanks for your input. As i said, I'm just looking for an insight into why you trust Muhammad etc. Not looking to call you up on your answers.
Thanks again.
J.0 -
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JimiTime: Why do you believe he's not a prophet? - I don't mind if you spill your heart out in explaining this, I won't chop your head off!!
Who was Muhammed (p) in your views? Have you tried to read the Qur'an and understand it?? We believe every single Prophet came with the one message: 'Believe in One God and follow the Messenger's teachings' Muhammed (p) didn't contradict any of the Prophet's before him, he never lied (according to his enemies/history), etc. From reading his Seerah (Biography) from different sources, we see a character who was sincere in all his dealings. We believe that the Qur'an could not have been written by any man alive, therefore, we believe what's in it. It's nothing to do with being brainwashed, sunday school, or any of that rubbish. There's logic in our belief as Muslims.0 -
JimiTime: Why do you believe he's not a prophet? - I don't mind if you spill your heart out in explaining this, I won't chop your head off!!
One reason would be that I have no reason to. 'My perception', which is open for scrutiny, is that you had 'one' man, who wrote down what he 'claimed' was the words dictated to him from God. Joseph Smith (founder of the Mormons) Claimed the same thing. Why should I not believe Joseph Smith? What I find in the Hebrew and Greek scriptures, are many people testifying to matters of God. I see clear fulfilled prophecy such as The rise and fall of world powers, the birth and death of Yeshua, the destruction of Jeruselem. These would all be factors that show 'to me' a divine message.Muhammed (p) didn't contradict any of the Prophet's before him,
Based on what? Correct me if I'm wrong, but don't you reject the words of the prophets of the OT because you believe they were corrupted over time? Also you reject the NT writings. So what do you base your opinion that Muhammad doesn't contradict any of these prophets on?
Thanks for your input, and invoking me to question.0 -
If you've studied the seerah (biography of the prophet) for example: 'The Sealed Nectar' or read a bit about the final Messenger (p) you would see many prophecies. You can believe whoever you want to believe, but be sincere in your research of the scriptures. The core message of every other Messenger (we believe there were over 24,000 or so), including of course the old testament was: 'There is ONE God and I am his Messenger'; other beliefs include prayer, alms, charity, being good to neighbor, etc. Does Prophet Muhammed (p) contradict this in his Islamic Message to mankind?
The main question is: if you don't believe he is a prophet (p), what is your reason? - you haven't really given a proper reason we can actually discuss, so I take it you believe he is a Prophet!! Read or listen to even an introduction to the concept of Allah and the prophets from a good Islamic source near you. I don't really understand your original question. Why do we all really believe anything. It's in our references (The Noble Qur'an, The Seerah, The Hadith). What are your sources/references/criteria for believing in people? - Nostradamus/Astrologers also predicted some things (Are they prophets of God)?0 -
god spoke to mohammed-also to jesus-also to abraham--to joseph smith[mormons] also to george fox on top of pendle hill [quakers] can anyone prove different?0
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god spoke to mohammed-also to jesus-also to abraham--to joseph smith[mormons] also to george fox on top of pendle hill [quakers] can anyone prove different?
OK let's see your references now for these people you've just mentioned. Could you point me in the right direction to get a source of their core beliefs & history ... I'll have a quick browse through them. I know the New Testament has many contradictions in it so that's out of the way (but I believe that Isa was a true prophet because he's mentioned in the Qur'an as one); where's Ibrahim's original scrolls (I would believe in him 100% of course because he is one of the main Prophet's); where's Josph Smith's & George Fox's scripture so I can have a look at them. Do you actually believe strongly in these people (are you convinced? -- What's your reason??)0 -
'There is ONE God and I am his Messenger'; other beliefs include prayer, alms, charity, being good to neighbor, etc. Does Prophet Muhammed (p) contradict this in his Islamic Message to mankind?
I never said he did. I said that since you reject the hebrew writings as corrupt, how do you know that this was the message of the previous prophets? Is it because Muhammad said it? or the Qur'an? Both? Do you see what I'm asking?
Thats because that is nothing to do with what I'm asking. I've quite simply asked why 'you' believe that Muhammad was telling the truth when he said that a) He was a prophet of the most high and b) That the Qur'an is literally Gods dictation.The main question is: if you don't believe he is a prophet (p), what is your reason? - you haven't really given a proper reason we can actually discuss,
These are both the claims of a man, just like a Christian believes Christ was a man who claimed certain things. Why do you believe Muhammads claims is my question?I don't really understand your original question.
Simple really. As I said earlier, Joseph Smith made claims similar to that of Muhammad. He said he was a prophet, and also that he had a book that was given by God (the book of mormon). So why should I believe Muhammad and not Joseph Smith? I'm really not trying to be contentious, I'm just looking for a reason as to why you believe Muhammad was who he said he was. Surely thats a simple question?It's in our references (The Noble Qur'an, The Seerah, The Hadith).
Thats the thing though. I'm asking why you believe Muhammad when he said that your above sources, written down by him, were dictated by God?
Your answer above could be translated back to my Mormon example like so:
Jimitime: Why do you believe Joseph Smith was telling the truth when he said he Got the Book of Mormon from God.
Mormon: Its in our references (The book of mormon)
Can you see how that is not answering my question?What are your sources/references/criteria for believing in people?
There can be many. It is said Elijah called fire down from heaven to consume a sacrifice offered to God. It is said that he raised a boy from the dead. It is said that Yeshua raised people from the dead, turned water into wine, made leapers clean and blind men see.
Daniel claimed he had a vision from God which showed him the world powers that had passed, were present and were to come. It was on the button with its accuracy. Even about the rise and sudden death of Alexander the Great, and Greece's subsequent division into 4. It wasn't vague neither.
The record of Christs life show he prophesised the destruction of Jeruselem. This also came to pass. These 'fulfilled' prophecies show something of a divine nature.
So are there such things that show 'you' Muhammads source was divine? Fulfilled prophecy etc?- Nostradamus/Astrologers also predicted some things (Are they prophets of God)?
Firstly, do they say they are? And secondly, could you show me a clear fulfilled prophecy by them?
Seriously though, I'm not looking to debate with you. I'm really just looking for a concise reason as to why you believe a) Muhammad was a prophet of God and b) That the book he wrote was dictated to him by God via the angel Gabriel.0 -
god spoke to mohammed-also to jesus-also to abraham--to joseph smith[mormons] also to george fox on top of pendle hill [quakers] can anyone prove different?
Sorry getz, but I think your way of questioning will have us decend into a proove your religion debate. I really don't want my OP to get lost in such a malee if you wouldn't mind.0 -
Sorry JimiTime if I've sounded arrogant in the last few posts. I think it's better to talk face to face about these things as there is a lot of misunderstanding. This message is going to be a bit longer than the others but it's just there to prove my point about the Prophet (p) and his source (the Higher Power of the Qur'an):
There are hundreds more but I'll leave it at 8 pieces of evidence (I can go into much more detail about these if you think they're vague in any way. I just want to remind you that the Qur'an is a book which Muslims believe to be the literal word of God, and this book was revealed one thousand four hundred years ago to the Prophet Muhammad (salallaahu alayheewa's-Salaam), who lived in the Arabian city of Makkah. Now I believe that if anyone were to analyze the Qur'an, they will find that the Qur'an contains many statements - many correct scientific statements which were not discovered only until recently. Therefore, the question I ask you is: how could a man in the Arabian desert, fourteen hundred years ago, have this kind of scientific knowledge? The technology and the means to get this kind of scientific information simply did not exist at that time. Advanced equipment and sophisticated methods were not developed at that time. Therefore, the only conclusion a person can make is that there had to have been a greater power other than man who was the author of the Qur'an. Man could not have been the author of the Qur'an because there is no way a man could attain that type of scientific knowledge.
If a statement in a book, whether it is the Qur'an or any other book, agrees with modern scientific fact, then it can be one or more of the eight following possibilities:
1. Perhaps the author of the Qur'an was a genius - he was like Albert Einstein or something, and he discovered these scientific statements.
2. Perhaps the author of the Qur'an guessed; he just guessed "I wonder what this could be" and he got it right.
3. The author of the statement was a great scientist; so basically he had a laboratory in his backyard, he conducted experiments and that is how he came to the conclusion of these modern scientific facts.
4. Maybe it is just a coincidence, like a poetic statement which just happens to match up with science. What that means is that the author had no intention of talking about modern science. He had no intention, and it was a pure accident, and out of accident the statement agrees with modern science.
5. Perhaps the scientific fact is observable, like for example to say 'bees have a leader'. Well I think if you observe the bee hive, you will see that it is something observable; there is nothing really miraculous about that.
6. Information already pre-existed in history. So what this basically says is that the author of the Qur'an basically plagiarized from another source, maybe Aristotle or something like that. So that is another possibility. Also, How was he able to detect truth in an ocean of falsehood and myths? How did he know this is the right one and not copy wrong statements like most people do when they plagiarize?
7. Which is a source greater than man the author of these statements.
If you study the Qur'an you will see that the Qur'an does not contradict any established modern scientific fact. This is a true statement. many have tried to find scientific errors in the Qur'an, but they have failed; but that's not what I'm trying to prove here. I want you to understand that the logic of Islam and the Qur'an is much more than just blind faith for the majority of the 1.2 billion Muslims.
Okay, I hope you're still with me now ... sorry about the length of this post, but here are eight pieces of evidence like I said, I can name hundreds. But I'll stick with eight:
[ Evidence #1: Quran on Bee s role in nature ]
This is what modern science has to say on the topic of zoology, in particular bees. Today science tells us that the male bee has only one purpose, and that is to reproduce with the female - there's really no other purpose for a male bee. Now here's the important point - however, the worker bee or the soldier bee is a female bee. She is the one that builds the nest, leaves her home, and goes out in search of food. This what modern science tells us - that we have discovered only recently. Now it takes a specialist in the field to detect the sex of the bee - you cannot look at it from the naked eye - it is impossible, there is no way you can look at it that way. Now let me show you what the Qur'an says about bees. Now, keep one thing in mind here. In the Arabic language, animals are either male or female. Like in English we have the word cow - "the cow in the pasture" - that does not tell us if the cow is male or female. But in Arabic animals are either male or female. There is no gender neutral term for animals. Let's look inside chapter sixteen verse sixty-eight. It says over there: "and your Lord taught the bee" (here it is specified a female bee) "to build its cells in hills, on trees, and in men's habitations, then to eat of all the produce and find with skill the spacious paths of its Lord."
This is exactly what modern science today tell us - that the bee that goes out and builds the nest, that goes out looking for food, as what the Qur'an has mentioned, is indeed the female bee.
So anyway, I'll have to raise a question now. How did the author of the Qur'an know this scientific statement, that the bee that leaves the nest in search of food is the female bee?
[Evidence #2: Lost city of Iram]
If you look in the Qur'an it talks about a city named Iram inside chapter eighty-nine, verse seven. Now, there's something very unique about the city Iram, which is that nobody has ever heard of a city called Iram before. You can look through all the pre-Arabic or Arabic literature, none of the companions of Muhammad (salallaahu alayhee wa's-Salaam), or Aristotle's work, or the Hindu scriptures, nobody has ever heard of a city called Iram yet this is a city mentioned in the Qur'an. And for this point many people have actually ridiculed the Qur'an and made fun of it because it is talking about cities which nobody has ever heard of. And even one of the most famous critics of the Qur'an, his name was Wellhausen, he stated that Iram was actually a fictional place - it didn't exist - whoever wrote the Qur'an just made up some corny city and then put it in the Qur'an. This is basically what many people thought, especially Wellhausen. Some Muslims also, they felt very ashamed of this fact and so they said "okay, okay, Iram is not the name of a city, actually Iram is the name of a person, yeah, yeah it is the name of a person," because they felt ashamed on this point. Well, anyway, all of this changed in 1978, because there was an archeological dig and they discovered a city named Ebla. Now in this city Ebla, they looked in the library and there they discovered a city that Ebla used to do business with, and low and behold, that city was named Iram. The very same exact city as mentioned in Surah eighty-nine, verse seven of the Qur'an. And that was done in 1978. Now, how was the author of the Qur'an able to have knowledge of this city? This is a question I would like to raise. And even the person who wrote the article from National Geographic in 1978 - I believe it was the December edition,
I'm not sure - but he even makes specific reference to this. He says "Iram, this is that strange or obscure city that was mentioned in the Qur'an." That is even mentioned in the National Geographic article. So how did the
author of the Qur'an know that such a city existed?
[ Evidence #3: Quran on barriers between different seas ]
We are now going to move away from archeology and we are going to talk about oceanography. Today, scientists tell us that there is actually a barrier between the bodies of water, and that this information has only been discovered recently, using advanced equipment. Now let me give you an example: there is actually a physical barrier between the Mediterranean Sea and the Atlantic Ocean. This barrier - the two seas basically differ in, number one, temperature, salinity, and density, and between these two seas there is an actual physical barrier. And of course, this barrier between the seas which we are talking about is not visible to the naked eye.
Let's see what the Qur'an has to say on this topic. Inside chapter fifty-five, verse nineteen it says over there: "He it is how has set free the two seas meeting together. There is a barrier between them. They do not transgress."
Now this is a statement which completely agrees with modern science. Scientists have only recently discovered that there are barriers inside the ocean, between the seas, and I gave an example between the Atlantic and the Mediterranean. So anyway, we see that this statement of the Qur'an agrees with modern science.
[ Evidence #4: Quran on barriers between salt and fresh waters ]
Anyway, let me move on to the next piece of evidence. Proof or evidence number four. We talked about barriers between the two different seas, which differed in temperature, salinity, density, etc. But science today has also told us that there is a barrier between fresh and salt water. In fact this barrier which the scientists talk about - they call it the zone of partition. So basically, on one side of the zone of partition you have salty water, and on the other part of the partition you have fresh water. And this has been also clearly, explicitly stated in the Qur'an. Let's look at chapter twenty-five, verse fifty-three: "it is he who has let free the two bodies of flowing water, one palatable and sweet - (referring to fresh water) - and the other salt and bitter ."
Now here is the important point I would like everyone to take heed to: "yet he has made a barrier between them, a partition that is forbidden to be passed."
[Evidence #5: Quran on no light on the bottom of the seas]
Okay, let me continue. Now, we are still on the topic of oceanography. Let's look at the fifth piece of evidence. Scientists have only recently discovered that at the very bottom of the ocean it is completely dark. That
is, you are going to have to travel one thousand meters, and after you have traveled one thousand meters in the ocean, it is complete pitch darkness. In fact, if you have ever seen the movie Titanic, the Titanic is actually at the very bottom of the sea, and the Titanic right now resides in complete total darkness. Now man, on the other hand, he could probably swim about - at the most - forty meters down in the ocean without special equipment. So he could only go about forty meters, but like I said, once you go down one thousand meters, that is when you see that it is complete pitch darkness. And scientists have only recenlty been able to discover these details - pieces of information about the seas.
Now let's see what the Qur'an has to say about this. Chapter twenty-four, verse forty of the Qur'an. It is talking about the disbeliever that: "the disbeliever is like the darkness in the vast deep sea,(and it goes on in the same verse 'if a man were to stretch out his hand, he can hardly see it; and for he whom Allah has not appointed light, for him there is no light.') It says in the Qur'an: "there is no light for him" and it is talking about the vastest deep ocean. So the Qur'an is saying at the very deep, dark levels of the ocean it is complete darkness, and that is like the analogy of a disbeliever - he lives in complete darkness. Again, this is exactly what scientists today have told us - that the ocean, after one thousand meters, is complete darkness. I would raise a question: how did the author of the Qur'an know this type of scientific information?
[ Evidence #6: Quran names the lowest point on Earth ]
Okay, let's look at evidence number six over here. We are going to get off the topic of oceanography. I have produced for you three pieces of evidence of oceanography. Basically, that the author of the Qur'an knew that there was a barrier between the seas. Number two, he knew that there was a barrier between salt and fresh water, and the author of the Qur'an also knew that at the very depths levels of the ocean is complete darkness. Let me now move on to proof number six here. We are going to talk about geology. If you have a topographical globe - topographical globes show the elevations and depressions of the earth - and if you look at where is the lowest point on the earth, you will see that that is around the Jerusalem area. That is the lowest point on the earth. Anyway, let me read to you this verse of the Qur'an. Again, this is what scientists today tell us: that the area around Jerusalem is the lowest point on the face of the
earth. Surah thirty, verse two of the Qur'an says "the Romans have been defeated in the nearer land, and they, after their defeat, will be victorious." Now, this word, "nearer land," that the Romans have been defeated in a nearer land, the word is adnaa 'l-ard, and if you look in the dictionary, they have two meanings for adnaa 'l-ard. One is "nearer land," which many commentators used, because it is a lot easier for people to understand "nearer land". But if you look for the other meaning of this verse, I'm sorry, for this word, adnaa 'l-ard, you will find that it means the lowest part of the land. So, the Romans were in fact defeated at Jerusalem, and that is the lowest point on the earth. So let me read to you this verse again: "the Romans have been defeated in the lowest part of the land." It can also be read that way, that is, any scholar of Islam will tell you that is an equally fine interpretation, because the word adnaa 'l-ard has two meanings: "nearer land" as well as "lowest part of the land". And of course the Romans were defeated at Jerusalem. So here is a statement which completely agrees with modern science. So we see here that the author of the Qur'an used a word in which one of the meanings was lowest land. And has also made a prophecy which came to pass. Could that be a coincidence? This is my question.
[Evidence #7: Quran correctly states Iron is not from Earth]
Anyway, let's now jump over to the topic of astronomy. Now, we know that there are many elements in the universe today, or in our planet today - I'm sorry. Scientists today tell us that after studying the element of iron, that iron could not have been created on earth. And not only that, they say iron could not have been even created in our universe. They say that in calculating the energy required to form one atom of iron, it was found to be about four times as much energy of the entire solar system, just to create one atom of energy. Scientists go on to tell us that this kind of energy is not observable in our sun, our planets, in our solar system combined. So, what they are telling us is that iron could not have been formed on earth, neither in our solar system; rather, it should have come from some external source. That is the only place where iron could have come from.
Now, if we look in the Qur'an, we see that the Qur'an actually talks about things which were created on earth. So basically, someone would look at the Qur'an and say "well, yeah, that's reasonable, I mean how else would a man one thousand four hundred years ago - you know, he looks around his surroundings he sees that everything produced comes from the earth: grass grows from the earth, pairs come from the earth, so yeah, that's very natural." But now the Qur'an also talked about where iron came from. Now, we would assume that the Qur'an would say that iron came from the earth, just like human beings, pairs, just like everything else - like any man would.
Notice what the Qur'an says about iron. Surah fifty-seven, verse twenty-five: "We sent aforetime our apostles with Clear Signs and sent down with them the Book and the balance that men may stand forth in justice." Now here is the important part I want everyone to pay attention to: "and We sent down iron."
It says in this verse that God sent down iron to the earth which the meaning is when people study the Qur'an that iron could not be created by the earth; rather God says We sent down iron from out of this solar system. That is exactly what modern scientists today are telling us - that iron could not be produced by earth. The earth does not possess the type of energy, nor does our solar system, and that is exactly what the Qur'an is stating. Okay, so the question I would like to raise in regards to this is how did the author of the Qur'an even know that certain elements are not from earth? What would ever make him come to that conclusion? A man one thousand four hundred years ago in the desert - if he was the author of the Qur'an, how would he have that type of information?
[Evidence #8: Quran states Sun and Moon have Orbits]
Okay, let me move on to the next piece of evidence. And this is going to be my last piece of evidence here, and then I am going to give a summary. Today, we all know, and I think this is not a surprise for anyone, that the
moon actually moves in an orbit - a circular path, we all know that. But the scientists also tell us today that the sun also has an orbit, which many people do not know. Yes, all the planets are revolving around the sun,
but the sun has an orbit in which is revolves around the center of the Milky Way galaxy. So both the sun and the moon have an orbit. This is what scientists have only recently discovered.
Let me now point you to chapter twenty-one, verse thirty-three of the Qur'an. It says over there: "and He it is Who has created the night and the day, the sun and the moon, each in an orbit floating."
The Qur'an clearly states that the sun and the moon have an orbit, and that word, falak, if you look in the Hans-Wehr dictionary, that word refers to a woman's chest, a round woman's chest. So it talks about that the sun and moon have a circular orbit. So this is a statement which clearly agrees with modern science.
Okay, but let me show you how that coincidence keeps happening in the Qur'an. Look at this verse over here, it says, inside chapter thirty-nine, verse five: "He coils the night upon the day and coils the day upon the night."
Okay, I am all done over here, and I just want to review, very quickly, the eight pieces of evidence which I have mentioned in this post and hope it answers all of your questions about Prophet Muhammed (p), The Qur'an and Islam's proof of a Higher Power:
#1. I talked about bees: how the Qur'an correctly said that it is the female bee which leaves the house.
#2. I talked about a city named Iram, which no one has heard [of] until 1978, and this city was mentioned in the Qur'an and archeologists dug up the city. I'm sorry, the archeologists dug up a city named Ebla, and they found out that a city named Iram did exist.
#3. barriers between the seas: this was clearly stated in the Qur'an.
#4. barriers between salt and fresh water.
#5. that at the bottom of the ocean, it is complete deep darkness after, of course, one thousand meters.
#6. the Qur'an clearly pointed [to] the lowest point on earth by using a word adnaa 'l-ard, which one of the meanings is "lowest point." Plus a prophecy fulfilled after 7 years... coincidence??
#7. the Qur'an clearly stated that iron did not come from earth, rather God said "we sent down iron," meaning it came from some external source, which is exactly what scientists today tell us.
#8. the Qur'an clearly stated that the sun and the moon have an orbit, and that is exactly what scientists today tell us. And there are more on Astronomy, Embryology, etc. Not one single error in his statements!!! Lucky?!?0 -
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^^ Thaks Agathon for such a detailed posting. So are the reasons you detailed above why 'you' believe Muhammads claims?
BTW, is there any fulfilled prophecy in the Qu'ran? Also, are there any prophecies that have yet to be?
thanks again for your great input.0
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