CTYI gets screwed over by the Budget

Stargal

There was some pretty bad news for CTYI tucked away in the Budget. From here:

Centre for Talented Youth: The Department has in the past provided an annual grant of €97,000 to the Centre for Talented Youth. This is being withdrawn.

The Dept of Education & Science has always been pretty crap for CTYI. It has never given out anything close to the amount of money that was needed, but at least in the past few years it had started to show a bit more support by having the Minister coming out to visit the summer courses and seeing what was happening on the ground. This is a total kick in the balls.

So what's this going to mean? An increase in fees? Reductions in the number of courses available? Getting rid of 'extras' like correspondence courses and Access programmes? Big increase in corporate sponsorship?

Wonder if there'd be any point in doing some fundraising?

eVeNtInE

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claire h

Thanks for posting that, hadn't seen that in the catastrophe that is the budget. Damn.

Is funding for Access not separate, incidentally?

I suspect another round of letters going out to alumni might be on the cards.

eVeNtInE wrote: »

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I would be quite surprised. :rolleyes:

eVeNtInE

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Acid_Violet

It was bound to happen really. I guess in the bigger picture, at the current time it's the right thing to do. That said, CTYI was never funded enough. Far too much was put into unsuccessfully reviving the Irish language with grants to the Gaeltacht Bean an Tí, whilst the government would get their wish of more people doing science in University if they funded CTYI better. Such is the short-sightedness of politicians......

My first year was '04 when residential was only €850. Amazing to see how much that's changed. In my last year I was discussing with other Nevermores what'll become of CTYI considering the government is intent on cutting all it's funding. A lot more corporate sponsorship would be necessary. At the moment I can't imagine that having any impact on the Summer courses. I just hope CTYI continues to effect the participants as much as it did me.

PurpleFistMixer

Tbh, I'm sure the gaeltacht(s) have affected far more people than CTYI has, so as far as pleasing the majority goes, that would be a sensible place to send money.

It's very unfortunate, but if it were between CTYI losing funding, or social welfare payments decreasing, I know I'd pick the former. (Though it seems both have happened. Alas.)

ntlbell

It could be better spent in a center for poverty stricken youth's

Piste

Yeah, CTYI is a luxury, not a necessary. I know it's for people with "special learning requirements" or whatever the phrase is that the DoE likes to use, but the money would be far better spent on people with learning difficulties rather than people with exceptional abilities.

EdgeOf17

I was really devastated to hear this ... CTYI gave me some of my fondest memories and closest friends, and I'd be heartbroken to think that it might come to an end.

What can we do? Fundraising? Letter-writing campaigns?

Scarinae

CTYI made a huge difference to my life, and I know it has for a lot of other people too, so I'm pretty upset to hear that. I don't know how it could possibly continue without that grant though, considering there isn't much room for them to cut their own budget anywhere - afaik all the staff are fairly badly paid as it is.

nightgirl

THE GOVERNMENT'S decision to cut its entire €97,000 annual grant to the Irish Centre for Talented Youth (CTYI) in last week's controversial Budget came completely without warning, its director, Colm O'Reilly, has said. The grant comprised about 10 per cent of the organisation's own budget.

The centre, which was featured in the Parenting section of this supplement last week, runs classes and camps around the State for 4,000 exceptionally able children, aged six to 16.

Mr O'Reilly said the centre was "surprised and disappointed" at the abolition of the grant, which makes up 10 per cent of its €1 million budget. The first he knew about the decision was when a colleague pointed it out on the Department of Education's website last Wednesday, the day after the Budget.

While the rest of the centre's income is self-generated, the Government funding has been used for assisting parents of gifted children who could not afford the classes and for providing extra support to students with learning disabilities.

A significant number of the estimated 23,000 exceptionally able children in the Republic have learning difficulties or disabilities. Many of the children with learning disabilities who attend CTYI courses are referred by the National Educational Psychological Service, which is funded by the Department of Education, Mr O'Reilly said.

"They are students who most benefit from coming on our programmes because they can excel at something," he says. "It places us with the dilemma of what to do with these students. They would be the most vulnerable of gifted students."

A Department of Education and Science spokesman said: "The resources available for next year meant that difficult choices had to be made and the abolition of the grant to the Centre for Talented Youth was one of those tough decisions."

Operating in a number of centres around the State, as well as in DCU, the centre has doubled its number of students in the past five years. The previous education minister, Mary Hanafin, had visited CTYI three times and had been very supportive, Mr O'Reilly said.

nightgirl

Also... Yes, it may be widely seen as better to put this money into centres for disadvantaged. However, in many ways CTYI students are disadvantaged. Most of us need to be thought in a different way to understand subjects. We are not catered for at school. Personally: Many of my friends don't do well at school cause they're so bored. Classes don't move fast enough. CTYI is like an "advanced placement" course. Seeing the talent among us go to waste wouldn't, in my opinion, be great.

Piste

I don't think "talented youths" are as disadvanages as someone with a serious learning difficulty. I'd rather see an autistic kid get the educational support he needs to try and bring him up to his classmates' level than someone who's talented (God how I hate that word...) being nurtured.

claire h

Piste wrote: »

I don't think "talented youths" are as disadvanages as someone with a serious learning difficulty.

The two aren't mutually exclusive.

One could make the case that it's far better to properly educate the 'best', the future leaders etc (occasionally the writings on gifted education do put this theory forward) rather than get below-average kids up to some kind of 'average' level.

Or you could put forward the radical notion that what education should be doing is helping each student maximise his or her potential, which would ideally see a revamping of the school system as it exists as well as catering to students on the edges of the spectrum of potential ability, which includes programmes like CTYI.

MrsTed

How many of you are going to the protest on the 28th. For you rebels..


And this sucks. CTYI is the best thing that ever happened to me.

Adam.

MrsTed wrote: »

How many of you are going to the protest on the 28th. For you rebels..


And this sucks. CTYI is the best thing that ever happened to me.

I'll be there!

Only my first year at CTYI this year, but it was amazing! I was looking forward to next yeat, but then I heard about the grant withdrawal. Completely pissed tbh.

Attend the protest if you can.

Thursday*

I'm pretty torn as regards the protest. On the one hand, I don't like the way groups that are affected by budget cuts sometimes seem to automatically start protesting, even if it's not particularly unfair - it's unreasonable, because something's got to give, and puts pressure on the Government for bad reasons, which distracts from people who are pressuring them for good reasons! I'm not sure if me going to the protest would come under this heading or not, because on the other hand, CTYI is an amazing gift to thousands of kids and genuinely changes loads and loads of lives, and what Colm said in that statement about how the State funding is used to accommodate students with learning disabilities makes it seem even more critical.

On the whole I think I'd like to take my cue from CTYI itself if possible. Does the protest have any official connection? Knowing CTYIzens are extremely capable of organising themselves, I wouldn't imagine so, but I'd like to find out what action they are taking, if any, and what they'd condone on our parts.

And on a lighter note - Edgeof17! Fancy meeting you here!

Implosiony

Piste wrote: »

I don't think "talented youths" are as disadvanages as someone with a serious learning difficulty. I'd rather see an autistic kid get the educational support he needs to try and bring him up to his classmates' level than someone who's talented (God how I hate that word...) being nurtured.

Nurtured? (God how I hate THAT word.)
Listen, I agree that educational support for people with learning difficulties is extremely important, but they get funding. This grant was all we had, and now it's gone. And who's to say that these so called "talented" youth don't have difficulties of their own? I can't emphasize how much more confident, and social I've become due to their courses.

This program means much to many people, regardless of whether you thought we we're being "nurtured" or not; are we not allowed any funding, just because of our grades? Shouldn't we be entitled to something?

/rant

PurpleFistMixer

What's more important:

You going to special summer camp and becoming more confident, or a child with severe learning difficulties getting enough help to let them finish their education?

Yes, we should be entitled to something, everyone should be entitled to an education befitting their abilities, but it's also necessary to prioritise. An expensive summer camp in Dublin is not as important as countrywide educational support services for those with learning difficulties, etcetera.


What's this about a protest on the 28th?

Señor Juárez

If a 15 thousand college student protest can't get their fees back, a ragtag group of disorganised teenagers aren't going to get CTYI's 100k back.

And anyway, courses like this are a privilege which just are not really as viable any more, given the current economic climate.

nightgirl

Does anyone really think that a protest will help?

How will it help CTYI? Who have no idea it's going on. There is no possibly way we're getting the funding back this year. If you all protest then companies like deloitte won't want to be named among those who fund these "spoilt" kids. Yes we love CTYI. However, this will not help it in any way. Express disapproval the smart... "talented" way. Actually think about what would help. Even the medical cards are not fully back. And to be honest CTYI is not important compared to other things that were cut. Or the things that would have been if it hadn't been CTYI.

Instead think about this: The government pays the teachers' salaries in fee paying schools. Why? Now that's true elitist.

PurpleFistMixer

Señor Juárez wrote: »

If a 15 thousand college student protest can't get their fees back, a ragtag group of disorganised teenagers aren't going to get CTYI's 100k back.

That protest was definitely not about GETTING fees. : p

But yeah, a protest isn't really noticeable unless there's LOADS of people (see student protest yesterday) or you do crazy things (see chaining yourself to the spire whilst naked)... and crazy things don't tend to reflect well on the cause.

I THINK there might be a teacher protest of some description on next week, so if you're feeling indignant about education that might be one to support.

Acid_Violet

The public in general are already against CTYI as they see us as elitest. They'd rather see the €100,000 grant going on the basic education of all irish children, and in this time of crisis it seems that there's only enough money to cover such basics. The grant's not coming back. If you want to make a valid protest, protest against ALL the education cutbacks as opposed to the one that affects you. Otherwise this aggressive tactic will only be detrimental to CTYI.

The protest is NOT, I REPEAT NOT organised by CTYI, in fact, I'd imagine most staff members would be entirely against it.

If anyone wants to support CTYI and play a part in raising funds, send a letter of support to the site office and offer your assistance in attaining funds (by such means as corporate sponsorship, for example.) It may be less fun than a protest and more demanding of effort but it'll be more effective.

Piste

claire h wrote: »

Or you could put forward the radical notion that what education should be doing is helping each student maximise his or her potential, which would ideally see a revamping of the school system as it exists as well as catering to students on the edges of the spectrum of potential ability, which includes programmes like CTYI.

That would be the ideal, like free healthcare for everyone , but at the moment we simply don't have the money for either of those things so the most vulnerable need to be protected.

tako

Education is not just for the disadvantaged, you need to spend money on developing the best / brightest as well.

It is about balance.

Do you want Ireland to be known as the land of the mediocre??

The foreign inward investment continues here due to our well educated labour force. CTYI is the only program in Ireland supporting this sector of youth.

Other countries all around the world support the talented to become leaders. We seem to be more focussed on pulling them back to the average.

We will be domonstrating on Weds -- against all of the education cuts including CTYI. Todays kids - tomorrows leaders (& taxpayers)

Raphael

Wow... that's a well planned protest right there...

Jim_Are_Great

It's tempting to say that the CTYI grant served only a small, and relatively insignificant, portion of society, and that it needed to take a hit. But it cost the state €97,000. Only ninety seven thousand euro. Each and every minister, on appointment, gets a state-provided mercedes worth more than that. There were no cuts to this type of spending.

The difference that the amount in question would have made to statewide investment and funding is negligible compared to the effects for CTYI.

lucernarian

Jim_Are_Great wrote: »

It's tempting to say that the CTYI grant served only a small, and relatively insignificant, portion of society, and that it needed to take a hit. But it cost the state €97,000. Only ninety seven thousand euro. Each and every minister, on appointment, gets a state-provided mercedes worth more than that. There were no cuts to this type of spending.

The difference that the amount in question would have made to statewide investment and funding is negligible compared to the effects for CTYI.

That's an important point that's being overlooked here. I know that therapies and proper educational support for the likes of autistic children are very costly, and 100k would only help out a limited number of children, depending in how it would be allocated of course.

The use that CTYI gets out of the 100k can't be compared to the needs of learning disabilities in general, as the costs and benefits received in each are completely different. It's akin to reducing funding for the Long Term Illness Scheme (free medications for specific illnesses regardless of income or age) so the over 70s medical card scheme can continue as is.

Finally, if there are queries about the worth of the 100k being spent on talanted elitists etc., consider why the money is not being reallocated to help the most gifted kids get the education they need to reach their full potential. I'm talking about the children who have attention issues because of academic boredom or are being taught at a rate and way that's completely mismatched to them.

We need to help those most challenged in our education system, regardless of the level of academic or intellectual "talent". And I refuse to believe that one child is more deserving of help than another who is equally suffering, just because one can thrive academically and the other lacks that particular ability.

Piste

That makes the assumption that everyone at CTYI is challenged or has problems. Why spend €97,000 (which is pennies to the government really) on a centre which deals with mainly well-balanced regular kids who happen to be bright than on people at a severe disadvantage? The majority of people at CTYI don't have learning difficulties or attention issues and would thrive with or without CTYI. The people who have actul difficulties will still be looked after by money going into special needs programs.

As for the government not putting money into the brightest, they said they'll keep funding science and research programs here which involve the brightest people. The cream will rise to the top with or without CTYI.

slasher_65

Did somebody suggest chaining people to the spire naked?

I'm in favor of that.
Otherwise, this whole protest thing just makes me feel a little bit... feh. Makes us look a bit like whiny teens.

Acid_Violet

Piste wrote: »

That makes the assumption that everyone at CTYI is challenged or has problems. Why spend €97,000 (which is pennies to the government really) on a centre which deals with mainly well-balanced regular kids who happen to be bright than on people at a severe disadvantage? The majority of people at CTYI don't have learning difficulties or attention issues and would thrive with or without CTYI. The people who have actul difficulties will still be looked after by money going into special needs programs.

As for the government not putting money into the brightest, they said they'll keep funding science and research programs here which involve the brightest people. The cream will rise to the top with or without CTYI.

QFT. Most bright kids will excel based on their own merit, with or without specific assistance from the government. Those who won't should be helped in an appropriate way. It's the ones who will struggle who need the help.

A MESSAGE TO CTYIERS ATTENDING THE PROTEST: Why don't you contact CTYI/Colm O'Reilly first to find out if it'd actually be suitable to go ahead with the protest, instead of taking the risk of damaging CTYI in the view of the public and the government.