Irishmen in the UK forces

Carrigart Exile

Can someone shed some light on a conundrum for me. My own Grandfather, a Donegal man, served in the Royal Navy, however, a friend has now told me that the Irish Government has a law banning its people serving in foreign armed forces including the UK's.

Is that true or nonsense?

Evd-Burner

lol thats nonsense

Carrigart Exile

Evd-Burner wrote: »

lol thats nonsense

Thank you

iceage

Think it might be a case of "way back when" maybe. If it is the case I've never heard of it being invoked, although, a gran uncle of mine who served durring WWII was a member of the Free State at the outbreak. Himself and three others left Limerick, took trains to Dublin then Belfast and travelled to the UK to sign up! I think there were many that took similar routes into UK forces at the time.

Carrigart Exile

iceage wrote: »

Think it might be a case of "way back when" maybe. If it is the case I've never heard of it being invoked, although, a gran uncle of mine who served durring WWII was a member of the Free State at the outbreak. Himself and three others left Limerick, took trains to Dublin then Belfast and travelled to the UK to sign up! I think there were many that took similar routes into UK forces at the time.

as I said my own grandfather fought at Jutland with the royal Navy (indeed he got himself shot by a German at Jutland, thankfully not fatally) and the Irish have had a long tradition of serving in the UK forces, so it was quite a surprise to me when this blowhard came out with that.

iceage

I'm sure there are others here more qualified than myself who can confirm this for you. I have vague recollections of the same thing or something similar, I have some buddies I'll ask.

conceited

Yes you can serve.
But i would shoot you myself to be honest before you went .
Then again the irish won't leave you in if you have a crooked toe....
I assume you have a problem with the gardai or some medical reasons?

Citizens of the Republic of Ireland are perfectly allowed to join the military of foreign nations. In fact for the British Army, you can even become and Officer without holding British citizenship if you are Irish.

Carrigart Exile

Deleted User wrote: »

Citizens of the Republic of Ireland are perfectly allowed to join the military of foreign nations. In fact for the British Army, you can even become and Officer without holding British citizenship if you are Irish.

cheers, I suspected there was a special arrangement in place

iceage

[QUOTE
I assume you have a problem with the gardai or some medical reasons?[/QUOTE]

Mighty assumption there, I believe the OP asked because of a statement made to him by someone else.

Carrigart Exile

iceage wrote: »

[QUOTE
I assume you have a problem with the gardai or some medical reasons?

Mighty assumption there, I believe the OP asked because of a statement made to him by someone else.[/QUOTE]


Absolutely, I am way to old for a career in the military or the police, but not to old to slap down an old blether, thank you for your advice folks

Duffers

conceited wrote: »

Yes you can serve.
But i would shoot you myself to be honest before you went .

Eh? :mad:

amacachi

Duffers wrote: »

Eh? :mad:

He's obviously a great Irish patriot:rolleyes:

Fratton Fred

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055231435

A guy from Cavan was killed just the other day in Afghanistan

Hagar

@ Conceited

Threatening to shoot someone just because you don't agree with his viewpoint or actions is not permitted on this forum. You have been infracted for the post.

Further posts of a similar nature will earn you a ban from the forum.

Hagar

conceited

i'd take his irish passport off of him .
Obviously i won't shoot him..... Thats my viewpoint.

Hagar

Some days I despair. :mad:

Leadership

Interesting viewpoint Conceited by taking away the passport and very much a small town attitude. At least its better than shooting him I suppose.

I am ex British army and probably even worse in your Nationalistic head an ex British Officer. I wanted to be a career soldier and there just is not the scope of opportunity for that in the Irish military.

Just out of interest if an Irishman joined say the Swedish army would you still take his passport away?

Hagar

Leadership wrote: »

Just out of interest if an Irishman joined say the Swedish army would you still take his passport away?

I think it's a given that this attitude only applies to the British Armed Forces.

We should leave politics at the door in this forum where possible, we have another forum for that.

Let's stick to the topic please.

getz

the british army has a irish regiment, it was the favorite of the queen mum she called them her micks-- they carried her coffin at her funeral as she requested

neilled

The British Army has two units that are considered wholly Irish - The Irish Guards, (A guards unit think read tunics, bearskins etc) whom the previous poster has mentioned and the Royal Irish Regiment, formerlly the Royal Irish Rangers before they were merged with the UDR. Off the top of my head there are two cavalry regiments that are half Irish, one a Hussars regiment and the other being the Royal Dragoon Guards - one of the two regiments that were mereged to form the RDG were the Inniskilling's.

All I will say regarding the other poster's arguement about taking away the passport of someone who serves in a force other than the gardai or defence forces, other than the defence forces could equally be applied across many other areas of life. By taking a job in another country, said person is robbing the state of its tax revenues, and working in another economy actively competing against that of Ireland. Traitor, off with the heads of these people who choose to work elsewhere.......... take their passports! Logical stuff ain't it:pac::pac::pac:

getz

the royal irish regiment is now recruiting--there web site states that irish or people of irish parentage its one of the oldest regiment in the british army -- just check it out its very interesting

Duffers

Leadership wrote: »

Interesting viewpoint Conceited by taking away the passport and very much a small town attitude. At least its better than shooting him I suppose.

I am ex British army and probably even worse in your Nationalistic head an ex British Officer. I wanted to be a career soldier and there just is not the scope of opportunity for that in the Irish military.

Just out of interest if an Irishman joined say the Swedish army would you still take his passport away?

Well said SAH!

The only comebacks I ever got were being variously called a 'bog trotter', 'bog hopper', and having DL's on parade go 'repeat after me...AYE....ORRRR....EEAAAHHH' etc
The lads from certain areas of the north were much more offended by the same than I was. There was one with a 'Scots Ulster' flag in his grot, the Cpls took delight in questioning him on it, 'So, you're actually Scottish then?' 'No Corporal'
'Really?(genuinely perplexed) So you're Irish then?'
'(sighs)No Corporal, you see-'
'Alright Rct Sterling, I don't want your life story.' etc


EDIT just to add, I never encountered any hint of genuine animosity or anti Irish attitude. People got just as much flak for being from Liverpool, or Hull, or Birmingham, take your pick.

Latchy

Duffers wrote: »

EDIT just to add, I never encountered any hint of genuine animosity or anti Irish attitude. People got just as much flak for being from Liverpool, or Hull, or Birmingham, take your pick.

Exactly ,the reigion or were your from in ireland does not have a monopoly on any animosity, real or imagined, in the BAF

getz

coversation. whats your name-me dolan sir [with a manchester accent] so your irish /if thats what you want yes

diverdriver

There was never a ban on Irish citizens joining the British army. There was a ban on any Irish person who deserted the Irish army during the war to go away and join the British services. They were banned from getting any job in the public service as a punishment. Teaching, civil service etc.

Maybe that's where the idea came from.

I can imagine many men joined the army at the beginning of the war anticipating seeing some action only to find themselves bored out of their mind a million miles from all the action. Unable to leave the army, they probably took their chance and crossed the border hoping for a bit of excitement.

One of my uncles went AWOL from the Irish army during the war and went to England. I don't think he joined the British army though, just got a job in London. He was always a bit wary when he came home for years afterward. I don't think he needed have worried. I doubt if there was any interest in catching all the men who went AWOL.

neilled

getz wrote: »

the royal irish regiment is now recruiting--there web site states that irish or people of irish parentage its one of the oldest regiment in the british army -- just check it out its very interesting

Hmmm thats an interesting claim. The R Irish are a result of amalgamations that have taken place, the first of these being in 1968 with the joining of the Inniskillings, Royal Ulster Rifles and Royal Irish Fuisiliers, of whom the Inniskillings were the oldest, have been raised during the williamite wars. They became they royal irish rangers (with two batts) who then in turn joined with the UDR to form the the Royal Irish Regiment, a monsterous sized unit with two general service battallions (latter cut to one) and something like 6 "home service" ones.

Taking into consideration the mergers that have happened in the UK infantry that featured so prominantly in the UK press over the past few years, one wonders how much of a future the R Irish have - the current situation is that large regiments have been formed with men and officers transfering through different battallions throughout their careers as each battallion will have a different role, light, mechanised etc.

1 Royal Irish is almost unique in that it is about the only single battalion regiment of the line left. Part of the reason I think it escaped the cull its because of the outcry there was from Unionist politicians in Northern Ireland over the disbandment over the homeservice units - it would have been too much all at one go to merge or disband the remaining regular unit. Where it goes in the future is open to question.

getz

royal irish regiment from its origens in 1689---dam thats old

WAGS

The Irish have a long and proud tradition of military service. Not all shared the same cause, but the Irish were always ready, willing and able to stand up and fight for what they believed in.
Irish regiments played significant roles in many battles and wars around the world over many centuries and not just in the British Order of Battle.

An Irish Brigade was authorised by the United States Secretary of War in September 1861 and originally consisted of the 69th, 63rd and 88th New York Volunteer Infantry Regiments. The Brigade was brought up to its full complement of 5 regiments by the end of 1861 by the addition of the 116th Pennsylvania and 28th Massachusetts Infantry.

The Irish Brigade suffered its most severe casualties in December at the Battle of Fredericksburg where its fighting force was reduced from over 1600 to 256. It was required to assault the sunken road in front of Marye's Heights which was ironically defended by predominantly Irish Regiment commanded by General Thomas Reade Rootes Cobb and the Union's Irish Brigade was decimated by the Confederates Irish Regiment.

The Irish Brigade recovered its strength and returned to the battle At Gettysburg, where it distinguished itself in the Wheatfield under the command of Colonel Kelly. The Irish Brigade has a monument on the Loop on the Gettysburg Battlefield.

DublinDes

conceited wrote: »

i'd take his irish passport off of him .
Obviously i won't shoot him..... Thats my viewpoint.

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.
BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army. And then these are the ones who call themselves " best army in the world ". Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

neilled

DublinDes wrote: »

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.
BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army. And then these are the ones who call themselves " best army in the world ". Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

Wayhay! Another blatantly ignorant (meaning of course uninformed) poster on this thread. Spain has no such restriction in place unless you have acquired Spanish citizenship via marriage or been naturalised and join a foriegn force thats on spains "naughty" list. What I have heard of is countries getting rather thick if you skip conscription and then that kind of grilling goes on, but rarely for joining another force, unless of course there is a war on.

As I have said again why should people who decide to go off and serve in a foreign force of a friendly nation that we do alot of trade with, and a member of the EU to boot have their citizenship removed and "rightly so?" Should Irish people working abroad have their citzenship removed for failing in their patriotic duty to work for the betterment of the nation? What about tax exiles like O'Brien etc? We've bigger fish to fry tbh.

Regarding the claim about the British Army taking Irish Army Rejects - yes it does. The defence forces field about 10,500 personnel of all ranks. Recent data would indicate for every job as an enlisted sailor, soldier or airman/woman there are 5 applicants. For Officers there are 25 to a place. Naturally people looking for a military career will head off to the closest place going, particularly if they are recruiting. Nonetheless not everyone who goes to the BA will have bothered to apply to join the defence forces. Whilst watching a slot on tv about men from the south who've joined the brits the primary motivation seemed to "to get fighting" which the Defence Forces don't tend to do alot of, unless they come under attack.

minidazzler

DublinDes wrote: »

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.
BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army. And then these are the ones who call themselves " best army in the world ". Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

I admit, if I go to the Brits, very likely at this stage, then it will be because the Irish Army don;t accept colour-blind people, but then again I was thinking of going 3 years ago, before I knew about that.


Live and let live, if people choose to join the brits who are you to question their choices?

Poccington

Most of the people that go on about how lads shouldn't join the Brits are civilians that never had the bottle to even attempt to wear the uniform of their own country, let alone a different country.

As a serving member of the PDF I'd just like to say to any of the lads on here thinking of going or already in the middle of joining the Brits, best of luck and do us proud. Many a great Irishman has served in the Brits and there'll be many more to come.

Zambia

DublinDes wrote: »

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.

So you reckon now the pdf are stalling recruitment, Irish citizens wishing to become soldiers in the british or french armies etc should be persecuted?
Laughable

DublinDes wrote: »

BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine

Its a step up from comics but not much

DublinDes wrote: »

that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army.

I doubt anyone who could not pass Basic is accepted , the numbers of recruits the british army require surpasses any PDF requirements

DublinDes wrote: »

And then these are the ones who call themselve " best army in the world ".

Most armies do

DublinDes wrote: »

Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

Do you have to really? This one does not leave me eager for more half arsed , half facts and personal bias.

DublinDes, I imagine you have little to no clue about the British Army recruitment process. Those medical rejects you're talking about are, in most cases people who were rejected for laser eye surgery which is a no-no in the PDF. It is allowed however in the British Army as well as most other major armies in the western world.

*Edit* Great post Poc! It's great to read the PDF's view instead of we civvies on matters like these!

Duffers

DublinDes wrote: »

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.
BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army. And then these are the ones who call themselves " best army in the world ". Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

Yeaahh...
The Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment, the SBS, the SAS, the ML Cadre, the PF, they must be no match for you on your barstool, eh?

cherrypicker555

DublinDes wrote: »

Yes, in some countries, ( I think Spain is one ), if the authorites become aware of one of their nationals joining a foreign army, they take away their passport. And if they come back and want to live in the country again, they face a serious questioning and hassle to regain citizenship. and rightly so.
BTW, I read recently in the Phoneix current affairs magazine that the brits are taking Irish Army rejects ( on health grounds etc ) into army. And then these are the ones who call themselves " best army in the world ". Honest . I'll post a thread about it again.

ITC Caterrick has a modern sports/rehabilitation injury centre, there have been cases of medically discharged PDF soldiers who have been rehabilitated/operated on and able to continue their careers albeit in the BA.

1 in 5 of those undergoing Para or RM selection/training are backsquadded for rehabilitation due to injury.

So your point is moot. All recruits must pass CBT.

Dinter

Carrigart Exile wrote: »

as I said my own grandfather fought at Jutland with the royal Navy (indeed he got himself shot by a German at Jutland, thankfully not fatally) and the Irish have had a long tradition of serving in the UK forces, so it was quite a surprise to me when this blowhard came out with that.

Was that during the Battle of Jutland because that would have been WW1? There were no restrictions then as we were all British citizens.

Tbh though I'd say people are confusing the IRA's proscription of the British Forces in the later stages of WWI and on up to Independence. It was a standing death sentence to join. Apart from that, there was widespread revulsion by a huge swathe of the population for the British Army especially in the wake of HMG reprisals during War of Independence. Also up until early 1930's Britain was busily dismantling her own land army so there was no real need for a recruitment drive ergo no Irish volunteers. Interestingly enough though, when my uncle (BA) came home for his mum's funeral he had his own personal special branch man and was in and out in one day and that was in 1975!

Before anyone thinks this is an anti British rant I'd happily contribute to a memorial to commemorate the Irish Regiments that fought for the British. Fair enough if you don't agree with some of the causes they fought for but you can't argue with their ability.

iceage

Nice one Duffers, Nice one Dinters.

DublinDes

neilled wrote: »

Wayhay! Another blatantly ignorant (meaning of course uninformed) poster on this thread. Spain has no such restriction in place unless you have acquired Spanish citizenship via marriage or been naturalised and join a foriegn force thats on spains "naughty" list. What I have heard of is countries getting rather thick if you skip conscription and then that kind of grilling goes on, but rarely for joining another force, unless of course there is a war on. .

Well, as I said - I think Spain is one. ( Think - to consider something as a possible action, choice http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/think )

neilled wrote: »

As I have said again why should people who decide to go off and serve in a foreign force of a friendly nation that we do alot of trade with, and a member of the EU to boot have their citizenship removed and "rightly so?" Should Irish people working abroad have their citzenship removed for failing in their patriotic duty to work for the betterment of the nation? What about tax exiles like O'Brien etc? We've bigger fish to fry tbh. .

" people who decide to go off and serve in a foreign force of a friendly nation " Well I'm sure the families of the victims of the British army organised bombings of Dublin in 1974 and other bombings and shootings along the border, would not think of the Britsh army as that of a " friendly nation ".

neilled wrote: »

Regarding the claim about the British Army taking Irish Army Rejects - yes it does. The defence forces field about 10,500 personnel of all ranks. Recent data would indicate for every job as an enlisted sailor, soldier or airman/woman there are 5 applicants. For Officers there are 25 to a place. Naturally people looking for a military career will head off to the closest place going, particularly if they are recruiting. Nonetheless not everyone who goes to the BA will have bothered to apply to join the defence forces. Whilst watching a slot on tv about men from the south who've joined the Brits the primary motivation seemed to "to get fighting" which the Defence Forces don't tend to do alot of, unless they come under attack.

The article, which was unfortunately lost, citied the sneaky recruitment campaign of the Brits and how they are trying to get those rejected on health grounds into the brits. By your posting your implying that almost all of those rejected by the Irish Army go off to join the Brits, when in fact their's only a tiny trickle. Most people have better principle than to join the brits - and don't bother giving f**king stats from the British recruitment office FFS.

DublinDes

Duffers wrote: »

Yeaahh...
The Royal Marines, the Parachute Regiment, the SBS, the SAS, the ML Cadre, the PF, they must be no match for you on your barstool, eh?

And they could also think about joining the - Ulster Volunteer Force, Ulster Defence Association, Loyalist Volunter Force, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Red Hand Commandos, Protestant Volunteers, Ulster Vanguard,and Paisley's Third Force and Ulster Resistance.

DublinDes

Zambia232 wrote: »

So you reckon now the pdf are stalling recruitment, Irish citizens wishing to become soldiers in the british or french armies etc should be persecuted?
Laughable

Its a step up from comics but not much

I doubt anyone who could not pass Basic is accepted , the numbers of recruits the british army require surpasses any PDF requirements
Most armies do



Do you have to really? This one does not leave me eager for more half arsed , half facts and personal bias.

Well then, sue the Phoneix for lies

Poccington

DublinDes wrote: »

And they could also think about joining the - Ulster Volunteer Force, Ulster Defence Association, Loyalist Volunter Force, Ulster Freedom Fighters, Red Hand Commandos, Protestant Volunteers, Ulster Vanguard,and Paisley's Third Force and Ulster Resistance.

Oh such talk really grows quite boring.

They are nothing alike and such ridiculous comparisons are actually quite laughable.

Poccington

DublinDes wrote: »

Well then, sue the Phoneix for lies

The Phoenix is an absolute joke of a publication.

minidazzler

DublinDes wrote: »

Well then, sue the Phoneix for lies

Am I to gather that you take your own personal opinions from a publication? and that they are not formulated by your own experience? Because if this is so, I must say you are a very narrowminded person.

marco murphy

Poccington wrote: »

Oh such talk really grows quite boring.

They are nothing alike and such ridiculous comparisons are actually quite laughable.

How laughable?
Sorry to hear facts of murder and destruction at the hands of the British bores you :rolleyes:

Poccington

Perestroika wrote: »

How laughable?
Sorry to hear facts of murder and destruction at the hands of the British bores you :rolleyes:

Very laughable.

Ya see when you start comparing a professional army to paramilitary loyalist organisations you're borderline delusional.

It's like saying the Defence Forces is just another arm of the 'Ra.

marco murphy

Poccington wrote: »

Very laughable.

Ya see when you start comparing a professional army to paramilitary loyalist organisations you're borderline delusional.

It's like saying the Defence Forces is just another arm of the 'Ra.

As opposed to the RA being another arm of the Defence Forces?

Perhaps you should read into collusion. Comparisons made by Des are very valid and very real. British forces in Ireland and Loyalists paramilitaries go hand in hand.

[Edit - No amount of jibes and insults will hide the facts.]

Zambia

Pere

I get the impression you dont approve of people joining the BA. Granted your entitled to your opinion.

If you are of the opinion that its just the BA you disapprove of and not the military in general. (If you are disapproving of the military your posts wont be of much interest to many here)

If a Irish national wants to become a soldier in the next few years what should he/she do?

cherrypicker555

Perestroika wrote: »

As opposed to the RA being another arm of the Defence Forces?

Perhaps you should read into collusion. Comparisons made by Des are very valid and very real. British forces in Ireland and Loyalists paramilitaries go hand in hand.

[Edit - No amount of jibes and insults will hide the facts.]

Thats not true, illegal actions by a handful of rouge intelligence officers or UDR members, ie supplying details of PIRA members to loyalist paramilitaries, does not equal collusion of the whole of the BA.

300,000 soldiers served in op banner over 35 yrs, civilian casualties were minimal and in the millions of stop and searches and patrols behaviour lawful, apart from the odd incident, which when considering soldiers who were often teenagers were dealing with a hostile civililan pop most behaviour was exlemplary.

marco murphy

Zambia232 wrote: »

(If you are disapproving of the military your posts wont be of much interest to many here)

Well thats not what I am opposing here, as much as I believe that conventional armies are doomed.

If a Irish national wants to become a soldier in the next few years what should he/she do?

Not join the British Army anyway.

cherrypicker555 wrote: »

Thats not true, illegal actions by a handful of rouge intelligence officers or UDR members, ie supplying details of PIRA members to loyalist paramilitaries, does not equal collusion of the whole of the BA.

Of course it doesn't. What is your definition of rogue? Do you include the highest levels of the British Army and intellegence in this analysis? The point is anyone who joins the Brit army is representing the blood stained flag of that uniform, the uniform of an imperialist and oppressive army, one that is very active in that agenda today. Sin é.

300,000 soldiers served in op banner over 35 yrs, civilian casualties were minimal

Not that any of this is on topic, but civilian casulties were low anyway for a war of its length. However, I assume in your sums that you just ignored the casulties at the hands of BA/*Insert Paramilitary Group* collusion.

and in the millions of stop and searches and patrols behaviour lawful

Again off-topic but now that you've said it. I know hundreds that would disagree with you. Abuse, etc.