RE. AGM'S

prodg

Sparks. Could you please explain to me what an AGM is and the principles

behind them.

Red Renard

prodg wrote: »

Sparks. Could you please explain to me what an AGM is and the principles

behind them.

Example.
http://www.cvsfife.org/publications/agm.htm

Sikamick

prodg wrote: »

Sparks. Could you please explain to me what an AGM is and the principles

behind them.

.

_______________________________________________________________

AGM in my opinion is an annual general meeting of all the membership.

Sikamick
_______________________________________________________________


"Not another meeting!"

Some meeting announcements spark as much enthusiasm as a flat tire. But you can break that mold by putting together a productive, interesting session that will boost your reputation as a leader, motivate attendees, and guarantee that you'll come out with results that make a difference.

Effective meetings don't happen by accident. You'll need to prepare, and use or develop your leadership and people-management skills-the latter often presents the biggest challenge.

In my opinion here's how to run a worthwhile meeting that achieves your/Committee goals and produces a powerful decisions or actions.

Notify all your membership within the correct time scale as laid down in your rules and constitution, give written agenda for the meeting and minutes of previous AGM, before hand. This encourages attendance and questions from the membership.

Follow protocol : Minutes of previous AGM, Matters arising, Chairman's report, Secretaries report, Treasures report. Matters arising.

Standing down of officers/committee, election of new officers and committee.

This is my understanding of an AGM, if I have left anything out please feel free to add.


Michael O'Connor
Secretary to Dublin Target Sports Club
Also The Vintage Classic Rifle Association of Ireland.
aka Sikamick

Sparks

prodg wrote: »

Sparks. Could you please explain to me what an AGM is and the principles behind them.

Since AGMs are such a commonplace part of life, I take it this is about last night's SSAI AGM, which was closed to the general public?
If so, could you ask the question out straight please? If it's just about shooting, it can get asked here. What's banned is internecine bitching between NGBs (either directly or through proxies). Not valid criticism or real questions about stuff that you're concerned about.

Just remember the rules laid out in the charter and the other stickies...

prodg

I agree with you that this is the correct and proper way to conduct an

AGM. but unfortunately SOME of our governing bodies and some people on the authority above these don't seem to have an understanding of protocol, rules and constitution.

prodg

Sparks wrote: »

Since AGMs are such a commonplace part of life, I take it this is about last night's SSAI AGM, which was closed to the general public?
If so, could you ask the question out straight please? If it's just about shooting, it can get asked here. What's banned is internecine bitching between NGBs (either directly or through proxies). Not valid criticism or real questions about stuff that you're concerned about.

Just remember the rules laid out in the charter and the other stickies...

sorry sparks i'm asking a general question, and what meeting are you

talking about. I did not know there was a meeting.

I thought agm's where for membership and not the general public

paddyenfield303

prodg wrote: »

sorry sparks i'm asking a general question, and what meeting are you

talking about. I did not know there was a meeting.

I thought agm's where for membership and not the general public

the grandson found this for me

http://www.irishsportscouncil.ie/Governing_Bodies/

Sparks

prodg wrote: »

I agree with you that this is the correct and proper way to conduct an AGM. but unfortunately SOME of our governing bodies and some people on the authority above these don't seem to have an understanding of protocol, rules and constitution.

That's never been a problem, ever. The problem has always been that the members of those bodies never care enough to actually show up and vote or take an interest or an active role in their governing bodies. If they did, we wouldn't get about 99.9% of the merde we all have to wade through these days.

prodg wrote: »

sorry sparks i'm asking a general question

prodg, if you have a shooting-related question to ask, ask it.
If, however, you just want to know how an AGM works, what best practises for it are, and that kind of general background information, then I would suggest the above links as reading, as well as any of the countless books in the business section of any bookshop or library and we'll move this thread over to the business forums since it's not a shooting-related thread.
Which is it?

prodg

Sparks wrote: »

That's never been a problem, ever. The problem has always been that the members of those bodies never care enough to actually show up and vote or take an interest or an active role in their governing bodies. If they did, we wouldn't get about 99.9% of the merde we all have to wade through these days.


prodg, if you have a shooting-related question to ask, ask it.
If, however, you just want to know how an AGM works, what best practises for it are, and that kind of general background information, then I would suggest the above links as reading, as well as any of the countless books in the business section of any bookshop or library and we'll move this thread over to the business forums since it's not a shooting-related thread.
Which is it?

it is shooting related and i would like to make a point if you look at the irish sports council link put in by paddy enfield you will see that the isc require a code of ethics of ngb's so it is relevant to this forum. the question is, what is an agm and are they being run in a proper fashion in this sport.

Sparks

prodg, just because the ISC requires its NGBs to follow set rules does not make this a shooting-related question.
The question "what is an agm" belongs elsewhere, if asked with no slant whatsoever.
The question "are they being run in a proper fashion in this sport" is not what you originally asked, and is not what you just said you were asking (and it is not a question that has a quick answer because it's so vague). I can understand you "asking-without-asking" given the perceived severity of the rules regarding "political" discussions in here, but enough! Just ask your question directly already.

macnas

Just lock the thread already:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Sparks

I don't agree with that philosophy either macnas. If our phrasing of the rules regarding NGBs and this forum is causing folks to think they can't ask questions about NGBs here, I want that to end; but just taking the mickey isn't productive either. There's a balance to be struck and we've not found it yet.

Sikamick

Sparks wrote: »

I don't agree with that philosophy either macnas. If our phrasing of the rules regarding NGBs and this forum is causing folks to think they can't ask questions about NGBs here, I want that to end; but just taking the mickey isn't productive either. There's a balance to be struck and we've not found it yet.

_________________________________________________________________



Sparks I will ask the question? how can the same committee of the SSAI that sat at committee meetings over the last few weeks be the only people allowed to attend the SSAI AGM.?

And Sparks What does this mean (proxies).

Sikamick

rrpc

Sikamick wrote: »

_________________________________________________________________



Sparks I will ask the question? how can the same committee of the SSAI that sat at committee meetings over the last few week be the only people allowed to attend the SSAI AGM.?

And Sparks What does this mean (proxies).

Sikamick

It's in the constitution. The members of the SSAI are the representatives from the federated bodies, nobody else.

There's a bunch of threads about this in the archives.

Proxies are people to whom you give your vote if you can't attend a meeting.

Sikamick

rrpc wrote: »

It's in the constitution.

Which Constitution, believe it or believe it not, they have two so I have been told.

rrpc wrote: »

The members of the SSAI are the representatives from the federated bodies, nobody else.

rrpc please explain how does one get on to the SSAI Committee if the same people that sit on the committee are the only ones allowed attend the AGM.


Sikamick

IRLConor

Sikamick wrote: »

rrpc please explain how does one get on to the SSAI Committee if the same people that sit on the committee are the only ones allowed attend the AGM.

As far as I understand it, the SSAI committee is made up of the representatives of the constituent bodies. You get on by being sent by one of the member bodies.

I could be wrong though, I'm pretty much only going on what's on their website and what I've read about them here.

rrpc

That's it exactly Conor. The SSAI is a federation of governing bodies and its committee is made up of representatives of those bodies.

As far as I can figure out there is no real difference between an ordinary meeting and an AGM.

Anyone who thinks they are a member of the SSAI and entitled to be at the AGM would be best advised to look up some old threads here where such matters were discussed. Bottom line is they aren't and never were.

Sparks had quite a lot to say about this whole area at one stage ..... starting in 2005...

Sparks

Yup
rrpc nailed it on the head - in the past, folks were allowed into the NRPAI/SSAI AGM but they never had votes (including in '04). But them not being allowed in this year isn't actually against the SSAI rules as such.

prodg

Sparks wrote: »

Yup
rrpc nailed it on the head - in the past, folks were allowed into the NRPAI/SSAI AGM but they never had votes (including in '04). But them not being allowed in this year isn't actually against the SSAI rules as such.

my apologies sparks, had to go to work. would i be right in saying that the

meetings, weather they be committee level or agm's held by the SSAI are

conducted behind closed doors. Then why should we be affilliated to the

SSAI, if we are not privy to their MEETINGS. Just an inquiry by the way.

rrpc

prodg wrote: »

my apologies sparks, had to go to work. would i be right in saying that the

meetings, weather they be committee level or agm's held by the SSAI are

conducted behind closed doors. Then why should we be affilliated to the

SSAI, if we are not privy to their MEETINGS. Just an inquiry by the way.

Not sure you understand the situation prodg. The membership of the SSAI consists of governing bodies such as the NASRPC, NSAI, etc. That's it. Those bodies are affiliated to it and send representatives to their meetings.

Individuals are not affiliated to the SSAI except through their own governing body (NASRPC for example).

Sparks, it's taken almost four years for the penny to drop.

rrpc

And seeing as people don't appear to have taken my advice, here's two threads from 2004/2005 which deal with this very subject.

AGM thread

Another thread

Should get you all up to speed.

Sparks

prodg wrote: »

my apologies sparks, had to go to work. would i be right in saying that the meetings, weather they be committee level or agm's held by the SSAI are conducted behind closed doors.

This is mostly correct. The AGMs used to be held openly, but none there bar the NGB reps would have a vote. Committee meetings were always closed door affairs. Even as an NGB committee member, I'd have had limited visibility of what went on in them.

On the other hand, I don't know of any shooting NGB who holds committee meetings openly enough - very few even circulate meeting times/agendas/minutes to their members. Which, to my mind, is a horrible example of missed opportunity.

Then why should we be affilliated to the SSAI, if we are not privy to their MEETINGS. Just an inquiry by the way.

But you can't be, not as an individual. And according to the NRPAI/SSAI structure, you shouldn't be. Some people were, once, those people have since had those memberships cancelled or just not renewed; but they never should have been individual members in the first place. The whole point of the NRPAI/SSAI, as they said in their recent statement, is as

an umbrella body for some shooting organisations within the Republic 
of Ireland.

It's main purpose is the distribution of funding as determined 
by the Irish Sports Council.

It is not an NGB (National Governing Body for Shooting Sports in Ireland).



It has no regulatory function or powers over Shooting sports in Ireland.

 Its officers are not authorised or empowered to act independently of the 
associated organisations which comprise the umbrella body.

It has no function in awarding or withholding recognition of NGB status to 
associations.

So why would you want to be an individual member anyway? It'd be like a fish buying cycling gloves.

rrpc wrote: »

Sparks, it's taken almost four years for the penny to drop.

For this particular penny, yes; but then, I'm still waiting for a lot of other pennies to drop (like on opening up meetings and pushing information on what NGBs do to the members, instead of just making it available for those who want to go looking for it).

prodg

rrpc wrote: »

Not sure you understand the situation prodg. The membership of the SSAI consists of governing bodies such as the NASRPC, NSAI, etc. That's it. Those bodies are affiliated to it and send representatives to their meetings.

Individuals are not affiliated to the SSAI except through their own governing body (NASRPC for example).

Sparks, it's taken almost four years for the penny to drop.

OH I understand the situation rrpc and I am one of the many out there

who are not happy with the ssai as the main representative for our

shooting sports and as you said the PENNY has dropped.

Sparks

prodg, if you understand the situation, why aren't you asking a more direct question?

rrpc

Sparks wrote: »

For this particular penny, yes; but then, I'm still waiting for a lot of other pennies to drop (like on opening up meetings and pushing information on what NGBs do to the members, instead of just making it available for those who want to go looking for it).

Speaking for myself, there's no lack of willingness to do this Sparks, just a lack of willing bodies to put a shoulder to the wheel and actually do it.

Sparks

Looking forward to Joe doing that for the NTSA this year so
And I'm still thinking that bringing the camcorder to next year's AGM and taping the chairman's report for the year and youtubing it would be a good idea...

prodg

Sparks wrote: »

prodg, if you understand the situation, why aren't you asking a more direct question?

ok sparks I will ask direct questions.

It is unconstitutional only to have representatives at the SSAI AGM

because these are the committee. So how does one elect new committee

members. How does one propose or nominate new committee members

and who does this. ''THE SSAI COMMITTEE''. If the general membership,

club membership are not allowed to attend the AGM then at least all

NGB members should attend the AGM to represent the club members

and the ordinary membership and to propose people from the clubs on to

the SSAI committee.

Sparks

prodg wrote: »

ok sparks I will ask direct questions.

Good!

It is unconstitutional only to have representatives at the SSAI AGM because these are the committee.

No, it's not, is the short answer. The SSAI are not an NGB - they're an umbrella body made up of NGBs. You don't join the SSAI directly, noone does. Only the NGBs are members and only the NGBs should have a vote. If that rule is not obeyed (as in 2004's AGM, where the attending general public got to vote), then the people represented by the NGBs, who are playing by the rules, get unfairly treated, because one attendee's vote would equal that of hundreds of represented shooters on whose behalf their NGB is voting.

So how does one elect new committee members. How does one propose or nominate new committee members and who does this.

That's a bit longer of an answer. Basicly, each NGB has it's own method of choosing who that NGB's representatives on the SSAI committee will be (each NGB gets 4 reps under the SSAI rules). Some pick them at AGMs, some just have their committees pick whomever has the interest (or just the time) to go to the SSAI meetings. Once that's done, the nominations are returned to the SSAI and those people (I think it's back to 16 people in total again at the moment) are the new SSAI committee. According to the rules, those 16 then decide amongst themselves who will fill what role within the SSAI committee, this is done at the first meeting after the AGM (again, according to SSAI rules).

''THE SSAI COMMITTEE''. If the general membership, club membership are not allowed to attend the AGM then at least all NGB members should attend the AGM to represent the club members and the ordinary membership and to propose people from the clubs on to the SSAI committee.

Er, no. All NGB representatives (that's four people) should attend the SSAI AGM. But that's down to the NGBs (assuming the SSAI gave sufficient notice and agendas, that is - that would be the SSAI's responsibility).

Sikamick

How does one go about getting the list of NGBS, NGB Rep's, SSAI Committee members that have been involved since 2004 to 2008, are they listed anywhere.

When an NGB puts four people forward to sit at SSAI meetings are they named individuals or can the NGB send any NGB member to the SSAI meetings.

If so where you have an individual that's affiliated to a number of NGB's because he/she shoots different disciplines can they on the night of the meeting represent any of the NGB'S that they are belong to.

Sorry if the question is confusing, it even confuses me.

Sikamick

Sparks

Hm.
Not sure if the Reps are listed anywhere Sika, I'd start by emailing the SSAI's secretary and asking for the list, then I'd email the secretaries of the NGBs and ask them for their lists.
Since 2004, the members have been (in no particular order):

• NSAI (Silhouette, still members)
• NASRPC (Sporting Rifle, still members)
• IPC (Irish Pony Club, still members)
• IPSA (Practical pistol, still members)
• NTSA (Olympic shooting, pulled out this year)
• NRAI (Fullbore rifle, pulled out this year)

Sparks

To be honest though, I don't see the value of any of this. Even if the SSAI rules said that the AGM had to be open (and they don't), the SSAI is an unincorporated association (ie, a private club). It can't be held to it's own rules by anyone, not legally anyway. So if they decided even to not hold the AGM until 2050, noone could tell them otherwise (well, the ISC could threaten to suspend funding, but that's all they could do - they couldn't compell them to act).

Basicly, if you have a complaint as to the operation of the SSAI and just talking to them doesn't give a resolution you're happy with, well, you're bleep out of luck.

Which is why I've never though any shooting body (be it club, NGB, umbrella body or anything else) should be anything other than a limited company in form, with the JSI tucked into the Articles of Association as the designated arbitration body of last resort. And it's why those Articles are so damn important. They're dry and boring reading, but if someone's got a complaint, they become the gospel of how you operate, and if someone does lodge a complaint, it's too late to try to change them - they have to be right before the complaint (or at least close enough to right that you don't wind up spending half the budget on court costs ).