Crying Over Video Game Deaths

NunianVonFuch

From Kotaku:

Max Payne Reviewer Thinks No One Cries Over Video Game Deaths

Film critics, what are we gonna do with you? Look, we apologize that you're forced to sit through a few godawful video game to movie adaptations each year, but we loathe them with every fiber of our collective beings too. But you can't make blanket statements like this, Roger Moore of the Orlando Sentinel.

In his review of the new Max Payne movie, which he pans like everyone else, Moore writes "But as good as a couple of its action beats are, Max still suffers from the heartlessness that makes games emotionally inferior to movies. Nobody ever shed a tear over a video-game character's death."

Oh, Roger. A simple Google search for "I cried when Aeris died" shows just how wrong you are. Even I... have a friend whose tear ducts were fit to blow near the end of Shadow of the Colossus. **** on Max Payne 'til your heart's content, but realize we're a sensitive lot. *sniff*

Movie review: Max Payne — 2 out of 5 stars [Orlando Sentinel]

Reviewer responded to gamer comments here: http://blogs.orlandosentinel.com/entertainment_movies_blog/2008/10/max-paine---er.html?cid=135151959#comment-135151959

Anyone ever cry or really "feel" a characters death in a game? I know there's been a couple of threads along these lines over the years, but with all the games out over the last few years its due an update!

Big emotional hitters I've played were: Silent Hill 2, Lost Odyssey, Half:Life Episode 2, Bioshock, Call of Duty 4. Most of them are pretty recent so there's gotta be loads I'm forgetting or just didn't play.

Silent Hill 2 - I got the bad ending. Ended up staring disbelievingly at the screen. Can't recall if I shed a tear or not but certainly pretty emotional.

Lost Odyssey - Didn't get too far in it yet, but far enough to hear the tale of the "sick" girl who can't leave the tavern. So Kayim (main guy forget his name) travelled about bringing her tales of the wonderful world she'd never see. Are all the stories in this game as sad?

Half:Life Episode 2 - The bit where

Alex gets "killed" in front of you. Thought she was done for and came as such a shock!

Bioshock -

The big reveal bout halfway through where you promptly beat Ryan to death. Guy was a legend! All the right ideas, just chose a bad lot to inhabit his city!

Call of Duty 4 -

After the nuke hits and you think you've somehow survived okay, only to stumble out of the copter and despite your best efforts roll over and die pitifully on the sand.

Otacon

The end of MGS4... I didn't cry... I welled up! Honest!

thelordofcheese

I felt nothing over Aeris dying.
Mostly because she's not real. Also, bitch had it coming.

But i think Roger is right, it's harder to form any kind of connection to a video game character because they're just a step above cartoons. People giving a damn good performance i can understand, but Aeris? Nah. I can always get another lump of polygons to be the healer.

preferable one that's less irritating.

Otacon

thelordofcheese wrote: »

...it's harder to form any kind of connection to a video game character because they're just a step above cartoons...

If you didn't even steam up at the end of Iron Giant, you deserve to die, Lucifer.

hal9000

Otacon wrote: »

If you didn't even steam up at the end of Iron Giant, you deserve to die, Lucifer.

pfft what do you mean tragic ending the whole town got free scrap metal raining from the sky. it was a happy financial ending!

Vic Vinegar

I was sad when i had to kill sexy woman cop in the first Silent hill in the fairground. Shame she wasn't as hot in the film..... she was more butch lesbian in appearance. Still throw her one though!

hal9000

Bombleswizzum wrote: »

I was sad when i had to kill sexy woman cop in the first Silent hill in the fairground. Shame she wasn't as hot in the film..... she was more butch lesbian in appearance. Still throw her one though!

Ouch..... i cant imagine it being too comfortable with all those jaggies and sharp edges on polygons!

Headshot

in final fantasy 7

Aerith's death

small tear

Mr Bloat

This is too much. When the hell did it become acceptable for men to discuss emotions to an extent that we will admit to crying over computer game characters? If a man wants to cry, grand, I'm not going to say that we have to be stone hearted gits with no emotions but for Jaysus' sake, don't go yakking about it in public.
Everybody is doing it. Ray bleedin' D'Arcy is saying every other day that he was crying at some nonsense on the TV and then he gets a flood of texts from men saying they did too, football players are bawling on the pitch if they miss a shot, I've even heard guys coming out of the cinema saying they cried at the movie!
The only time it is acceptable for a man to admit to crying is after the death of a close family member or a favourite pet. End of!

chin_grin

Aeris.........I cried. Buckets. She died so young.....like I didn't even get her levels up or all her Limit Breaks..........Whyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy

WHYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYHYYYYYYHYYYYYYYHYYYYYYYYYYY

Retr0gamer

The death of aeris was a bit cheap to be honest and went out of it's way to be emotional. People also don't remember that the phantasy star series had been doing it years before hand and doing it a whole lot better.

There have been plenty of games that storywise have been emotional big hitters but they are few and far between.

Silent Hill 2, Panzer Dragoon Saga, Shadow of the Colossus, Ico, Vagrant Story and a few others weren't really tear jerking but really very depressing in their bleakness.

Really like the ending of Grandia was great, it really was the perfect way to end the game.

I though Panzer Dragoon Orta's big emotional pay off was very effective. It's both a great happy and totally bleak at the same time. Ingenius if you will.

Final Fantasy X really had a great ending, I wouldn't be surprised if a few tears were shed. It didn't hold back and cop out with a happy ending and was all the better for it (until they ruined it with FFX-2).

Now a game that really did bring me close to tears was Suikoden 2. Now that games ending was harsh and really didn't hold back especially the bad ending.

NunianVonFuch

thelordofcheese wrote: »

But i think Roger is right, it's harder to form any kind of connection to a video game character because they're just a step above cartoons. People giving a damn good performance i can understand, but Aeris? Nah. I can always get another lump of polygons to be the healer.

Wasn't so much that he was saying its harder, he was pretty clear that "Nobody ever shed a tear over a video-game character's death." Which is obviously wrong.

Don't know bout FFVII, never played it. :eek: Was an N64 man.

Oh just remembered The Darkness. Although that was for more personal reasons. "Stuff" was going down between myself and the gf so when you sit down to watch TV with Jenny who is so trusting, believing everything you say and she just wants you to stay with her awhile because she loves you so I couldn't really take it! Pretty moving too later on when

she gets her face splattered all over the window while you watch cos the Darkness is showing you you're its puppet.

Retr0gamer

I might have given a toss about the story in the Darkness if the game wasn't so utterly shit and the story cliched 'swearing to be mature' garbage.

NunianVonFuch

Retr0gamer wrote: »

I might have given a toss about the story in the Darkness if the game wasn't so utterly shit and the story cliched 'swearing to be mature' garbage.

Yeah it wasn't a great game at all. Ending sucked too. Those 2 bits in the story were all I remember as being decent. Plus how much the police cheif's voice sounded like Tommy Lee Jones in The Fugitive as he's screaming from the chopper.

thelordofcheese

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

Wasn't so much that he was saying its harder, he was pretty clear that "Nobody ever shed a tear over a video-game character's death." Which is obviously wrong.

This just in: Sometimes people make sweeping statements to make a point
more at 11.

I doubt he really meant it literally, but given how god awful games are for writing, story and creating characters you actually care about, i think he's pretty close to the money.

pwd

Movies, books and music have all moved me to tears at some point.
Never a computer game though. Don't think one has even come close.
I think I'm usually annoyed by the parts of games that might make someone cry (such as the parts of hl2e2 and bioshock already mentioned)
I don't think I've ever cared about a character in a game.
I did think there was a certain pathos to the Protoss in Starcraft, but I still didn't care about any of the characters individually. I liked the patapons collectively too.

Nerin

Drakengard- poor angelus

Retr0gamer

Nerin wrote: »

Drakengard- poor angelus

Poor bastards that had to play through it.

Kiith

I dont see why people would be willing to cry over a film, but not over a game. Its a story. If its emotionally involving, then surely it doesnt matter that the characters are polygons. I loved Final Fantasy VII. It was my first proper rpg. I realise now that its not the best rpg, and there are games that did a lot of what it did before. Regardless of that, it holds a special place in my heart. And Aeris dying was, at the time, a massive blow. I dont think i cried, but it definitely affected me.

As for Ep2, nearly losing Alex was bad, but

Eli getting his brain sucked out, with Alex crying over his corpse, and fade to black...

much more potent.

NunianVonFuch

thelordofcheese wrote: »

This just in: Sometimes people make sweeping statements to make a point
more at 11.

I doubt he really meant it literally, but given how god awful games are for writing, story and creating characters you actually care about, i think he's pretty close to the money.

He's responded to emails on his blog (and I've updated the 1st post) by clarifying: "Whatever advances have been made in inter-active storytelling, games are still "heartless." More involving, less passive, to be sure, than movies or most any other form of storytelling. But "heartless" sticks."

I get that you disagree with me, even though I'm surprised you've never felt anything for any videogame characters. Not even an affinity for Travis from No More Heroes? Whole adventure started because he got pissed and said things he shouldn't have but didn't give a ****. :pac: Who hasn't been there?

Sabre0001

Kiith wrote: »

Its a story. If its emotionally involving, then surely it doesnt matter that the characters are polygons.

Most games aren't...But considering how relatively new games are in comparison to books, music, films etc., there is room for improvement. Eventually there won't be graphical advancements so other things will be looked at - gameplay or story.

Plus, as times go on developers will get to grips more with what they have and (hopefully) produce stories. Max Payne chilled me in parts!

NunianVonFuch

Kiith wrote: »

I dont see why people would be willing to cry over a film, but not over a game. Its a story. If its emotionally involving, then surely it doesnt matter that the characters are polygons. I loved Final Fantasy VII. It was my first proper rpg. I realise now that its not the best rpg, and there are games that did a lot of what it did before. Regardless of that, it holds a special place in my heart. And Aeris dying was, at the time, a massive blow. I dont think i cried, but it definitely affected me.

The first one always gets remembered the best.

On that note, no ones mentioned Max Payne 2:The Fall of Max Payne. The tragic end of the love story between himself and Mona Sax! Only way to save her was to finish the game on its hardest difficulty which you had to unlock. Otherwise she bleeds to death in your arms! "God I turned out to be such a damsel in distress" she croaks before dying. "Now like all my loves she is mine forever .... I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right."

Gets me every time. Love that series.

MOH

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

Half:Life Episode 2 - The bit where

Alex gets "killed" in front of you. Thought she was done for and came as such a shock!

Tbh, I just though

thank god the annoying cow is out of the way for a while.

Although I did nearly cry later,

after fighting my way through all thiose annoying tunnels to where you had to defend that bit with the two guys and the turrets against the antlion assualt - when I realised I had to go trawling back through another load of identi-tunnels

Retr0gamer

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

The first one always gets remembered the best.

On that note, no ones mentioned Max Payne 2:The Fall of Max Payne. The tragic end of the love story between himself and Mona Sax! Only way to save her was to finish the game on its hardest difficulty which you had to unlock. Otherwise she bleeds to death in your arms! "God I turned out to be such a damsel in distress" she croaks before dying. "Now like all my loves she is mine forever .... I had a dream of my wife. She was dead. But it was all right."

Gets me every time. Love that series.

Couldn't have given less of a fuck. Awful story, and an awful character designed to give the nerds a hard on.

Nerin

Retr0gamer wrote: »

Poor bastards that had to play through it.

i deserve a medal for playing through em both. Flawed games. But still,i liked em. Ignoring the flaws

humanji

Does crying out of frustration count? I've done that many a time.

pwd

Kiith wrote: »

I dont see why people would be willing to cry over a film, but not over a game. Its a story. If its emotionally involving, then surely it doesnt matter that the characters are polygons. (

yeah I agree. I'm not unwilling to cry over a game, I've just never got emotionally involved in that way. I do get involved in games - generally moreso than in films for example - but in a different way.

MOH wrote: »

Tbh, I just though

thank god the annoying cow is out of the way for a while.

i found her annoying too

thelordofcheese

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

He's responded to emails on his blog (and I've updated the 1st post) by clarifying: "Whatever advances have been made in inter-active storytelling, games are still "heartless." More involving, less passive, to be sure, than movies or most any other form of storytelling. But "heartless" sticks."

Actually, i agree with that, so far as we're taking 'heart' to mean feeling genuine empathy with the characters. Very few films manage this per year, i don't see why people are getting all bent out of shape when a much younger medium hasn't cracked it yet.
(maybe it never will, given the nature of the medium in question)

NunianVonFuch wrote: »

I get that you disagree with me, even though I'm surprised you've never felt anything for any videogame characters. Not even an affinity for Travis from No More Heroes? Whole adventure started because he got pissed and said things he shouldn't have but didn't give a ****. :pac: Who hasn't been there?

There is a difference between liking a character concept and actual feelings. All videogame characters are just hollow puppets for you to control. It's hard to creat a genuine bond for a marionette that only ever comes to live during cutscenes.
It's even harder considering the fact that those things we rely on from actors, like facial expressions, are mostly lacking in modern games, or are wedged firmly in the uncanny valley.

Games are fun, but i can't find anything worth of emotional investment. It's probably going to be the curse of the medium for some time to come.

Retr0gamer

thelordofcheese wrote: »

There is a difference between liking a character concept and actual feelings. All videogame characters are just hollow puppets for you to control. It's hard to creat a genuine bond for a marionette that only ever comes to live during cutscenes.
It's even harder considering the fact that those things we rely on from actors, like facial expressions, are mostly lacking in modern games, or are wedged firmly in the uncanny valley.

I think the only two games that have managed creating empathy for characters without resorting to cutscenes and reams of dialogue are Ico and Shadow of the Colossus with the characters Yorda and Agro respectively.

Cuddlesworth

In a entertainment genre that involves for the most part a great degree of violence I find myself somewhat emotionally detaching myself from what I am doing. So no, I will never cry over a video game. I will neither find myself stabbing somebody because they stole something from me in a MMO.

Kiith

Cuddlesworth wrote: »

I will neither find myself stabbing somebody because they stole something from me in a MMO.

Carebear